U23 Quest Feedback - Epic Black Abbot Raid

[era42]

Innerccesion ward was a good idea, but the amount of disjunctions made it not a real solution.

If disjunctions are common, one major bug needs to be addressed with disjunction. Currently disjunction removes masterful crafting / wondrous crafting, raising the items minimum level.

This in itself would not be bad, but the anti-abuse code makes your toon totally unplayable if you wear items above your level, and if the masterful crafting is disjuncted, item level rises and you're screwed. And forcing people to swap out the hard-earned wondrous crafted items just seems wrong.

[slarden]

• I've seen a few players attribute CON damage to the Beholders or Quells; almost all of it in the Raid is coming from the Melee Vampires.
• We dug into the Negative Level spam, and discovered that the Quells were dishing out the vast majority of those; they shouldn't be dishing out any. In the next Lamannia build, there should be far fewer Negative Levels flying around.

I think some of it is coming from beholders and it can't be cured by the usual sources. In the epic wilderness I took con damage that made me helpless with my 90 fort save- it appeared to be from a beholder since there are no vampires in that area. I recalled and went afk by the Necropolis bartender for a few minutes- came back and still had the stat damage and was helpless. Since I couldn't take lesser restoration pots I used /death. That got rid of the stat damage.

In the raid as soon as I saw stat damage I used a heal scroll and/or used lesser restoration pots and I still had the stat damage. The only thing I noticed was a beholder, but it's possible I was getting hit by a vampire also.

[Steelstar]

I think some of it is coming from beholders and it can't be cured by the usual sources. In the epic wilderness I took con damage that made me helpless with my 90 fort save- it appeared to be from a beholder since there are no vampires in that area. I recalled and went afk by the Necropolis bartender for a few minutes- came back and still had the stat damage and was helpless. Since I couldn't take lesser restoration pots I used /death. That got rid of the stat damage.

In the raid as soon as I saw stat damage I used a heal scroll and/or used lesser restoration pots and I still had the stat damage. The only thing I noticed was a beholder, but it's possible I was getting hit by a vampire also.

Apologies, my earlier assessment was incorrect. The Doomspheres can inflict CON damage (usually via Withering) as one of their eye beams.

If disjunctions are common, one major bug needs to be addressed with disjunction. Currently disjunction removes masterful crafting / wondrous crafting, raising the items minimum level.

This in itself would not be bad, but the anti-abuse code makes your toon totally unplayable if you wear items above your level, and if the masterful crafting is disjuncted, item level rises and you're screwed. And forcing people to swap out the hard-earned wondrous crafted items just seems wrong.

We'll take a look at that, thanks.

[Thrudh]

Or a Shadowdancer, and ANYONE can run in the Shadowdancer Destiny with negative level immunity. Seems like a good choice for this raid, then.

This. People need to think outside the box.

[Braegan]

This. People need to think outside the box.

Running in an off ED, and a weak ED at that, is not a viable choice.

[Bridge_Dweller]

This. People need to think outside the box.

We thought of this like a week ago, and rejected it for being a stupid idea.

[Blackheartox]

Running in an off ED, and a weak ED at that, is not a viable choice.

Hey i soloed wgu on ee in shado as tosser build. It aint weak at all!!

[Thrudh]

We thought of this like a week ago, and rejected it for being a stupid idea.

So keep crying to the devs until they reduce neg levels to a point where you can ignore them again...

Great solution, and typical.

[Thrudh]

Running in an off ED, and a weak ED at that, is not a viable choice.

You have no idea what viable means.

Some DPS > Zero DPS (dead).

If Shadowdancer keeps you alive by protecting you from neg levels, and LD (for example) does not, then Shadowdancer is a much more viable choice for this ONE quest.

Absolutely nothing wrong with an occasional quest (even a raid) that works better with a odd-ball enhancement, or an odd-ball ED power, or an odd-ball spell.

[Thrudh]

I can't wait to see all the threads in a couple of weeks about how this game is too easy, and how we need a challenge for a change.

[Braegan]

You have no idea what viable means.

Some DPS > Zero DPS (dead).

If Shadowdancer keeps you alive by protecting you from neg levels, and LD (for example) does not, then Shadowdancer is a much more viable choice for this ONE quest.

Absolutely nothing wrong with an occasional quest (even a raid) that works better with a odd-ball enhancement, or an odd-ball ED power, or an odd-ball spell.

I'm certain I have a strong grasp of the meaning of the word.

What about folks who have not ground out all EDs for every character? How do they access Shadow Dancer? It was you that said before no one needs to have max EDs on every character wasn't it?

[Thrudh]

I'm certain I have a strong grasp of the meaning of the word.

Nope. You confuse optimal with viable. Almost none of the powergamers on these boards understand what "viable" means.

What about folks who have not ground out all EDs for every character? How do they access Shadow Dancer?

End-game raid. Get prepared before you do it. (gear, EDs, etc.)

[Braegan]

Nope. You confuse optimal with viable. Almost none of the powergamers on these boards understand what "viable" means.



End-game raid. Get prepared before you do it. (gear, EDs, etc.)

Um, Yes! I am not confused about either word. Sure I'll give you for a melee it's not as big a loss to swap to a weaker ED that gives you an edge in a certain quest/raid. But for DC casters, Shiradi, Nukers, etc it is NOT viable. It would be more viable to TR into a Paladin and get the loot I need and TR back and never run the raid again.

Nice how you left out the last part, which shows a nice 180 spin from what you previous said.

[Cordovan]

Let's keep this on-topic, and not get distracted by a debate over a particular Epic Destiny.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Let's keep this on-topic, and not get distracted by a debate over a particular Epic Destiny.

Make a raid where you're not pigeon-holed into one ED (Shadowdancer) or race (Bladeforged) and it'll be much easier to stay on topic

When we gonna see how it is with the adjusted beholder spawn-rates? it'll make it much easier to adjust our doom.

[Bridge_Dweller]

But for DC casters, Shiradi, Nukers, etc it is NOT viable. It would be more viable to TR into a Paladin and get the loot I need and TR back and never run the raid again.

It's funny because a lot of us have been saying this. Though there are a few items I want on multiple characters like the old Abbot raid this is mostly caster loot.

We've all considered TRing our necromancers into Bladeforged pallies to get our loot and get out. Not just most viable, most viable by an order of magnitude.

[HatsuharuZ]

Vol's dragonbreath now has a rust component.... PERFECT! *laughs*

[Monkey_Archer]

Ok. We ran this 4 man on epic normal again to test out the changes. After taking the day to think about it here goes:

Good

• Tile puzzle now needs to be done properly (sort of). The water damage was too much to silverflame pot/cocoon heal to the ddoors. It may still be possible with a cleric spam healing with enlarge, or with unyielding sentinels. Its not my preferred fix for this, but its better then it was.
• Increased damage overall, but with fewer neg levels. Overall this direction is slightly less frustrating for most players I think.
• End fight with Lady Vol is more pug-friendly. Blue circles not instantly killing you should make this much more fun for players of all skill levels. I think the damage should be increased a bit though. I was able to sit them for way too long (about 5-6 ticks of damage) before having to get out.
• DM text for inferno
• No more raising under water

Bad

• Archers bypass 120% fortification??? I understand that you don't want us to just ignore them, but at this point you may as well put a sign on the entrance that says "WF and bladeforge only". Either make them bypass 500% fortification, or none at all please. Double, tripple or even quadruple the ranged power per stack if needed, but putting the fort bypass at just the right number to not hurt WF at all, but completely destroy fleshies with 300+ damage arrows on Normal makes no sense.
• We're still getting randomly put on loadscreen-teleport during Lady Vol stage, despite nobody being off the main platform.
• The "Blueferno" appears to be doing nothing, or its doing so little damage I didn't even notice it. Not sure if its bugged, but I would expect this to at least do something noticeable (300+ damage).

Raid-breakingly bad

• There is no feasible way to recover lost soulstones in the water, and much more importantly, lost quest items. Is the raid intended to fail completely if the person with goggles dies in the wrong place? Thats a hell of a lot of pressure put on one single person in a 12 person raid.

Overall I think the raid is in a much better place, and I'm happy that some of the cheese methods are getting removed. But I can still picture LFMs going up in the future that say "Need WF tank for archers and 2 unyielding sentinels for swim pls"

[etotheipi]

I'm disappointed I have to go run the flagging quests to get in the raid now. I've already run them (and was disappointed that they were no more interesting, and in some cases less interesting) than the Heroic versions. Now I have to run them again to step into the raid on Lamma? How about sticking someone in the dojo who just grants you the raid even if you aren't flagged?

Since I don't have time to flag at the moment, I'll just ask the question here. On the previous Lammania build, the water's evil damage was apparently being reduced by MRR. Thus melees were easily able to swim in it, while casters were royally screwed. Now the water damage has gone up. Does MRR still reduce the damage, or is the increased water damage applying in like fashion to both casters and melees? If not, is this intended as yet another raid mechanic (on top of all the others) which is designed to punish casters? Or is this an oversight?

[moo_cow]

Bad
[LIST][*]Archers bypass 120% fortification??? I understand that you don't want us to just ignore them, but at this point you may as well put a sign on the entrance that says "WF and bladeforge only". Either make them bypass 500% fortification, or none at all please. Double, tripple or even quadruple the ranged power per stack if needed, but putting the fort bypass at just the right number to not hurt WF at all, but completely destroy fleshies with 300+ damage arrows on Normal makes no sense.

Ya the achers get a buff: Every 8 seconds they are alive they gain +50 ranged power and +15% fort bypass that stacks 10 times for a total of 500 range power and 150% for bypass.