U23 Quest Feedback - Epic Black Abbot Raid

[Bridge_Dweller]

From what I have seen so far, nothing is too extreme. People chugging pots like it is going out of style is the easy button for casters. So they do this to bypass the challenge and shortman their conquest.

I think the sp drain mechanic is fine and should stick around.

The fort bypass. Top end raid, top end rewards, top end challenge. My garbage buils drop me over 120 fort every time. So having some fort past 120 is not a big deal. Fort is the new toughness. Or min 16 con.

I look forward tot he day when something like old titan is released. A real achievement is completing it.

have you actually run this on Lamania?

[Silverleafeon]

Will be looking for group and/or trying to lead this raid on EN when Lam version 4 appears.
See you there, hopefully.

[Cetus]

Perhaps you have forgotten the original Abbot? It had an SP drain mechanic without an SP regen mechanic. And it wasn't a money grab. They didn't have SP Pots in the store when it was released. This suffices to show that your claim is false. Perhaps you can try to be more reasonable?

More amusingly, the SP drain mechanic in this raid is almost identical to the SP drain mechanic in Abbot. There is one notable difference, of course. Most groups will see the Inferno in Epic Abbot before they have Ice Wands...

Try to be reasonable, Cetus. Nothing is accomplished by this kind of hyperbole and exaggeration. You're better than that.

Then explain the lack of a shrine given the known mechanics of this raid.

Go

or is this an "unreasonable" request?

[Qhualor]

Ah people, if only you would think before replying.



Tell me how you are doing EE Firepeaks and EE Deathwyrm on a caster without chugging pots. PLEASE. DO TELL ME. Good luck getting Red/green light AND Tower as 2nd set of puzzles in Deathwyrm, I'd love to see your casters NOT chugging pots in there. Even on Normal, you have to chug pots, specially in pugs, when you get the wrong puzzles. Do not bother, you can't do it without pots.

I cant comment on Deathwyrm because ive never ran it, but lol on EE. guilds are running EE, if that.

my comment still stands. every raid is called a pot fest until a month, 2 months, 3 months later when players start figuring things out differently and to minimize the amount of pot chugging filtering the info down to the masses.

[Silverleafeon]

Myself, I will be very, very interested in studying the tile patterns, there seems to be only 3 (maybe 4) places to start the tile puzzle, and likely the patterns (possibly random but usually there are only so many random patterns).

So, I am very interested in finding possible patterns to any static tiles that are near the platform that could be reached from the platform by a "leap of faith" as Indian Jones would call it...

[Indianwiz]

I cant comment on Deathwyrm because ive never ran it, but lol on EE. guilds are running EE, if that.

my comment still stands. every raid is called a pot fest until a month, 2 months, 3 months later when players start figuring things out differently and to minimize the amount of pot chugging filtering the info down to the masses.

Completely wrong. Ran EE Deathwrym couple of days back.

The "original" Phylactery did not turn up until atleast 5 runs. Leading to a heavy ridiculous pot usage. Caster DPS is so weak now every pot from Anniversary card is worth it (if u understand what I am talking about).

[Silverleafeon]

Lamania 4 ~ New soulstone being placed in middle of platform works.

[Bridge_Dweller]

I cant comment on Deathwyrm because ive never ran it, but lol on EE. guilds are running EE, if that.

So you speak from zero experience and you think you opinions hold any relevance?

A caster can get through EE DW/TP without using pots by piking, that's really the only option. All the other raids however have been completed pot-free. Will DW/TP get there? I'm not sure without a ton of power creep or we go back to the 1 caster per raid model and make them do something cheap like kite around the rock elementals/

[Bridge_Dweller]

So . . . anyone get a chance to run the latest version?

[etotheipi]

I've taken looks at it on casters and melees. My primary concern has been the water damage. What we currently have is a vast improvement over the last build. It should be possible for some folks to survive the Inferno (or at least most of it) in the water with Silver Flame Potions + Cocoon. This favors high healing amplification melees. Most folks will find things get hairy around the fifth second or so. No form of self-healing will permit you to survive in the water healing yourself for much longer than six seconds (absent using methods like Undying Vanguard). Jumping into the water is not going to be the preferred method of avoiding the Inferno, and so I don't think this needs to change.

You should have 1000+ HP if you want to step into this on Epic Normal. If you don't, you're pretty much begging to die.

Surviving the Blue Inferno is now pretty trivial, so long as you aren't encased. Into the water with you. This is good. Encase spam still seems a bit excessive. We should have Alpha Phase and Delta Phase goggles so both sides can be done simultaneously. This suggestion was not implemented. It would also assist with cutting down the time people have to spend on the main platform beating down endlessly respawning archers, beholders, quells and vampire knights over and over and over again.

Tiles are much, much more forgiving. In most cases, falling off of them is not going to be a death sentence as long as you're prepared to survive for at least four or five seconds in the water on your own and react quickly. The time you have in the water can be extended by your party members healing you.

Fleshies with high healing amplification and Silver Flame Potions can be healed to the Dimension Door while they swim it. I don't see this as being the preferred method. Groups will almost surely typically tile it. I don't see a need for this to change. The healing is also largely dependent on you not being quelled or having beholders on you. If shrines are implemented (and they should be), this might be a way to try to quickly get someone to a shrine. But given what we currently have, people aren't going to be trying to cheese tiles.

I do not like soulstones teleporting to the platform. I especially do not like it since (i) swimmers can now go retrieve soulstones and goggles with some healing assistance, and (ii) you have time to get back onto a tile before you die, and (iii) you can be hit with a rez, leap back onto a tile, and then take the rez on the tile. I would like to see this mechanic go away. It's too much easy button and is unbecoming an endgame raid.

The raid still favors melees over casters to an incredibly large degree. The raid still favors Forged and Undead to an incredibly high degree. The Negative Level and CON damage spam is still quite high. The Mark of Death spam is excessive in the Death Knight Phase. It is not particularly fun to get two hits in, back off, get two more hits in, back off, and repeat this process endlessly. This is like the final fight in A New Invasion, except worse. Toning down the rate of Mark of Death spam just a little during this phase would be much appreciated.

I think we're almost there, but I think we still need a bit more tweaking. I did not check to see if shrines were implemented. There is zero question that they should exist on Hard and Elite. Ideally, in the side DD rooms at the midway point. Perhaps one shrine on hard and two on Elite. This is not going to be a pug-friendly raid. I expect it to be avoided by 95% of the population even more than Heroic Abbot was.

I am somewhat ambivalent as to whether or not this is a good thing, and I have a suggestion on this end. The rest of the game's raids need to be brought back. This game needs to return to providing a viable, fun raiding scene for people who are not prepared to handle some of these harder raids. To that end, ToD, VoD, and HoX all should be "epicified" next and made somewhat pug friendly, with rarish valuable loot that makes them worth running. This would be easy to do, and it would make Devil Battlefield a pack worth having again. Teleporters need to be installed to Master Artificer and Lord of Blades, and the loot there needs to be revamped as well. Pretty much the only reason anybody runs this content currently is for favor. The next update should be Rise (or Return) of the Raids. Turbine probably doesn't think that this is the best way to add to their bottom line, since it wouldn't help them sell new content. I disagree. It would help massively with player retention and revive a beloved scene that has been absolutely dead for a long time.

[moo_cow]

I cant comment on Deathwyrm because ive never ran it, but lol on EE. guilds are running EE, if that.

my comment still stands. every raid is called a pot fest until a month, 2 months, 3 months later when players start figuring things out differently and to minimize the amount of pot chugging filtering the info down to the masses.

This is not true and your comment doesn't stand, you can't talk on behalf of ee if you aren't running it.

[Qhualor]

Completely wrong. Ran EE Deathwrym couple of days back.

The "original" Phylactery did not turn up until atleast 5 runs. Leading to a heavy ridiculous pot usage. Caster DPS is so weak now every pot from Anniversary card is worth it (if u understand what I am talking about).

i said i couldn't comment on Deathwyrm, but you posted about Deathwyrm. my point still stands. every raid is called a pot fest until players figure out better strategies.

[Qhualor]

So you speak from zero experience and you think you opinions hold any relevance?

A caster can get through EE DW/TP without using pots by piking, that's really the only option. All the other raids however have been completed pot-free. Will DW/TP get there? I'm not sure without a ton of power creep or we go back to the 1 caster per raid model and make them do something cheap like kite around the rock elementals/

i don't speak from 0 experience. i speak from experience up to Deathwyrm.

[Qhualor]

This is not true and your comment doesn't stand, you can't talk on behalf of ee if you aren't running it.

yes it does stand. i do run EE, but not Deathwyrm, which is exactly what i said.

[moo_cow]

yes it does stand. i do run EE, but not Deathwyrm, which is exactly what i said.

So then your point doesn't stand.

[Qhualor]

So then your point doesn't stand.

ok, so 1 raid is a pot fest? this is going by your experience, not mine.

my point does stand because, as i said, every raid is called a pot fest. VOD was called a pot fest. TOD was called a pot fest. Shroud was called a pot fest. Von 6 was called a pot fest. are they a pot fest now? no. the first couple months they were called that UNTIL players learned better mana management, incentive to farm for clickies, bringing SS into groups, using better tactics.

[Bridge_Dweller]

ok, so 1 raid is a pot fest? this is going by your experience, not mine.

my point does stand because, as i said, every raid is called a pot fest. VOD was called a pot fest. TOD was called a pot fest. Shroud was called a pot fest. Von 6 was called a pot fest. are they a pot fest now? no. the first couple months they were called that UNTIL players learned better mana management, incentive to farm for clickies, bringing SS into groups, using better tactics.

Two raids. But they are the two most recent.

And please, run these and spread your wisdom on how this can not be a pot-fest unless the caster is piking.

[Qhualor]

Two raids. But they are the two most recent.

And please, run these and spread your wisdom on how this can not be a pot-fest unless the caster is piking.

like i told Wizza, who wont do it because he shouldn't have to and would rather gripe about it, you can stand on the edges and you can hide behind the rock. ive done this in a BYOH group before and we completed fine.

[etotheipi]

my point does stand because, as i said, every raid is called a pot fest. VOD was called a pot fest. TOD was called a pot fest. Shroud was called a pot fest.

SP pots weren't sold in the stores when VoD, ToD and Shroud were released. Nobody has ever called any of those raids potfests. A Vision of Destruction was soloed, numerous times, without any potions, and long before SP potions were introduced to the DDO Store. It never was, and never has been, considered a "potfest". Sorry. You don't know what you're talking about.

[Qhualor]

SP pots weren't sold in the stores when VoD, ToD and Shroud were released. Nobody has ever called any of those raids potfests. A Vision of Destruction was soloed, numerous times, without any potions, and long before SP potions were introduced to the DDO Store. It never was, and never has been, considered a "potfest". Sorry. You don't know what you're talking about.

you may not have, but i know it was said in game many times and on the forums. saying that im wrong doesn't change the fact. i don't care that someone soloed VOD without pots. it was said in every raid.