Harper tree feedback

[Aelonwy]

The thing is, Cha to dmg can be gotten in two ways already. Splashing 3/Bard if you are SWF or going PDK is really easy for anyone, while Intelligence is nowhere but an Arti spell and does really not benefit many classes. Anyway, if they feel like adding Cha-to-dmg, I'm not really against it. I just kinda understand their reasonings for not doing so.

I disagree on this being moved up in the tree. At the moment, every X stat to-dmg is either T1, Core1 or T3 in the case of Swashbucklers. I feel T2 is the right place for it to be. We are already tight with APs, moving it up will just lock everyone out.

I get that there are two options for it but both are very narrowly implemented. One forces you to go SWF, the other forces a racial choice. The way this enhancement in Harper works is very flexible, and useful to a wide variety of int based builds, I am only asking for the same options for cha based or cha heavy builds. I also think it makes sense for the tree. Its meant to be generic, available to EVERY CLASS, why not make it possibly more useful to a larger variety of builds? What's inherently wrong with that?

The lower level x stat to dmg enhancements are set to specific weapons. This enhancement is incredibly open to any weapon, no feat requirement, no class requirement, no racial requirement, etc.

[JOTMON]

AP's are an issue.

Need a way to gain more AP's to use in the Harper Tree.
Such as Harper Favor... give Harper tree AP based on favor tiers..
DDO Store..
Some other method of gaining AP's.. Iconic Competionist perhaps....

[DrawingGuy]

Sadly to me this is another point that shows how ignored WIS is:

WIS is the only stat that has no spells, enhancements, or classes that allow for WIS to attack or damage
WIS is the only stat that has NO racial stat base.
WIS is the only stat with no core racial enhancements

Sure, yet another way to get INT to damage opens up Warmages that can do full DC casting while keeping strong physical damage, and my Assassin Rogue is salivating... but now no one needs arti to buff them with it or feel unique with their Mechanic.

While the work has been done, the tree is relatively nice, and I'll take it... I just ask was this needed when there are existing trees that need balancing and actual gaps that need filling?

[Alavatar]

AP's are an issue.

Need a way to gain more AP's to use in the Harper Tree.
Such as Harper Favor... give Harper tree AP based on favor tiers..
DDO Store..
Some other method of gaining AP's.. Iconic Competionist perhaps....

Part of the challenge of character building is the need to choose which AP to spend where. If you had all the AP you needed for the useful abilities then there would be no character diversity.

Therefore, while I too would also like more AP, I think more AP is a bad idea from a balance standpoint.

[Aelonwy]

AP's are an issue.

Need a way to gain more AP's to use in the Harper Tree.
Such as Harper Favor... give Harper tree AP based on favor tiers..
DDO Store..
Some other method of gaining AP's.. Iconic Competionist perhaps....

I suggested when the whole enhancement pass was originally on Lammania that we needed either separate racial AP meant only to be spent in the racial tree (1AP per level including epic levels would do) or we needed to gain generic AP in epic levels perhaps 1 or 2 AP per epic level. People were very against both ideas, saying that it forced us to make "hard choices" with the 80AP cap. When most pure classes had only two trees to choose from 80AP doesn't seem like such a big deal, when a Pure class has 4trees + racial to choose from, and a multiclass has 10 + racial to choose from, 80 AP begins to look rather paltry. Especially with the 5/10/20/30 pts spent gating mechanism you really can't spend in more than two trees anyway, not significantly. I always seem to end up wanting tier 5 in one tree but capstone in another (assuming pure) which means I have to spend 30+ in one for tier5 and 42 at least in the second for capstone which leaves at max 4 pts to be spent in racial or third tree. An example of this would be my main, a cleric with Positive Energy Aura, but capstone in Divine Disciple.

[Seikojin]

A new tree is available in this preview of Lamannia called the Harper! This tree is available to all classes. The Harper enhancement tree is free for VIP players, and available for purchase in the DDO Store for non-VIP players. Please take a look at the tree on Lamannia, play with it, and give us your feedback!

From the Release Notes:

Harper - A new enhancement tree is now available to all classes! The Harper tree is free to VIPs, and is also available for purchase in the DDO Store.The Harper tree is currently only available to VIP players on Lamannia. Additionally, the Action Point costs of abilities are not adjusted to what they will be when U23 is released.) The tree is as follows:[/COLOR]

In summary:
I think the tree is somewhat awesome. I think it should be available as a favor reward for harpers and on the store. This way vip's can gain it earlyish because of favor excess and people can buy to it if they want to as well.

I think the stat choices are tactical, however I would like other trees to see the 1 AP +1 to a stat done to them as well. This would free a few AP and allow builds to be more reliable across the board.

I also would hope tiers were all shifted so you could take t5's from this and t5's from another tree; allowing dc casting again, strong, proper boosts in situations for other classes, etc. Also the core capstone should be moved to the lvl 18 spot (or combined) and no core capstone.

Harpers, being bardly and all, are not masters of anything.

• Core Abilities
  
  • 1 AP, character level 1:
    
    • Agent of Good I: +1 to hit versus evil, +1 Universal Spell Power.

I think the universal spell power should be .25 per point spent in the tree.

[*]5 AP, class level 3:

• Harper Training I: Int or Cha or Dex.

If dealing with tacticals, I would suggest wisdom as well, maybe remove dex, but it would make it a pure caster thing.

[*]10 AP, character level 6:

• Agent of Good II: +2 to hit and damage versus evil, +5 Universal Spell Power.

Swap spell power for 1% spell crit. or +1 spell dc.

[*]20 AP, class level 12:

• Harper Training II: Int or Cha or Dex.

Maybe make these physical buffs, so +1 str, con, dex.

[*]30 AP, class level 18:

• Agent of Good III: +3 to hit and damage versus evil, +10 Universal Spell Power.

Swap spell power for +1% crit or +1 spell dc.

[*]41 AP, class level 20:

• Harper's Freedom: Dispel most detrimental effects from you and add +10 to all saving throws for 12 seconds. Cooldown: 5 minutes.

[/LIST]

Should add a stat multiselector here and have it offer +2 to two stats, or +4 to 1.

[*]Tier One (0 AP Required)

• Weathered Traveler: +1/2/3 Energy Resistance
• Harper Enchantment I: Your weapon gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus. You gain +20 to your maximum Spell Points.
• Traveler's Toughness: +5/+10/+15 maximum hit points.
• Awareness: +1/+2/+3 to Listen, Search, and Spot. Rank 3: +1 save versus traps.
• Strategic Combat I: You can use your Intelligence modifier to hit with Melee and Missile weapons.

Wish the energy resistances were all 2/4/6 instead of 1/2/3. Never take those because they never are worth it.

Like the Strategic combat.

[*]Tier Two (5 AP Required)

• Heroic Companion:
  
  • Anti-requisite with the Halfing race version:
    
    • Action Boost: Grants an ally +0.25[W] and +2 to hit and saving throws. Usable five times per rest.
    • Action Boost: Grants an ally +0.5[W], +4 to hit and saving throws, and +2% Dodge. Usable five times per rest.
    • Action Boost: Grants an ally +1[W], +6 to hit and saving throws, +4% Dodge, and +10 Physical Resistance Rating. Usable five times per rest.
  • Magical Endurance: +30/+60/+100 maximum Spell Points.
  • Versatile Adept I: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.
  • Know the Angles: Antirequisite: Divine Might. You gain an Insight bonus to damage and the DC of tactical feats equal to ½ your Intelligence Modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. (Activation Cost: 21/18/15 spell points. Cooldown: 20 seconds)
  • Strategic Combat II: You can use your Intelligence modifier for damage with Melee and Missile weapons.

Make Know the Angles full int mod like mights full mod bonus.

[*]Tier Three (10 AP Required)

• Highly Skilled: +1/2/3 on all skills.
• Know Your Foe: Multiselector: Gain a Favored Enemy. Passive: Add +1 to the DC of your spells.
• Versatile Adept II: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.
• Harper's Leadership: Your hirelings, summoned, and charmed creatures gain +2/3/4 to all ability scores.
• Int or Dex: +1 Intelligence or Dexterity

Highly skilled is good and strong. Leadership should add double to their stats. Same with all augments to hirelings and summons.
Love the +1 stat for 1 AP. Want all the trees to have that.

[*]Tier Four (20 AP Required)

• Throat Dagger: Damages an enemy from afar for 1d4+4 Piercing damage per character level. Damaged non-boss enemies can't cast spells for 6 seconds. (This Spell Like Ability can be Quickened or Enlarged for no extra cost, if you have those feats.)
  
  • Higher ranks reduce the small spell point cost and reduce the cooldown.
• Versatile Adept III: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.
• Vigor of Life: +10 Positive Healing Amplification. -10% less damage from Negative Energy.
• Magic of Austerity: Like Eschew Materials, your spells no longer need common material components. This does not increase their Spell Point cost.
• Int or Dex: +1 Intelligence or Dexterity

Love the free meta and stat point. The other abiltiies are nice.

[*]Tier Five (30 AP Required)

• Versatile Adept IV: +2/+4/+6 to Melee Power, Ranged Power, and Universal Spell Power.
• Vigor of Life: +10 Positive Healing Amplification. -10% less damage from Negative Energy.
• Moment of Clarity: For the next 12 seconds the DC of your spells and your tactical feats is increased by +10. Cooldown: 5 minutes.
• Magic of Patience: Your spells benefit from the Extend Spell metamagic feat. This does not increase their Spell Point cost. Does not stack with Extend metamagic itself.
• Multiselector:
  
  • Harper Enchantment of Deception: Your weapon gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus and Improved Deception.
  • Harper Enchantment of Righteousness: Your weapon gains an additional +3 to its Enhancement bonus and Righteousness.
  • Harper Enchantment of Magic: Your weapon gains a +10 Harper bonus to Universal Spell Power.

[/LIST]
[/B]

I actually like these. I wish they were tier 4, so you could have a full harper spec or a lot, and use it to shift the focus of your class build to be less diverse and more focused on what it was (meaning you could take it's tier 5's and have these awesome utilities in harper to help focus it).
Moment of clarity needs to be a 3 minute cooldown. As awesome as it is (+10 dc on death spells would allow dc casting again), the 5 minutes is an epic moment, not a lvl 20 thing. 3 minutes is also a long time to be without the needed boost to spell dc's for those who rely on it. Also should increase undead turning by 10 levels/hd.

[harry-pancreas]

this is baaad baaaaaaaaaaaad baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

is not the same as a paid race with its tree, this is plain p2w, oh well, rogues and artis might like it. It can make wizards really really OP though.

[harry-pancreas]

The Int in the tree is irrelevant to wizards because even now nobody has points to get int from all 3 wizard trees, people go for int from pale master, archmage and of course racial, there is not enough points to get int from EK. If someone would want to invest in the Harper tree they'd have to give up one of the wizard ones. All you can realisticaly get is +1 int/cha/dex from the second core.

Which brings me to my general opinion on the tree: not enough AP / too many enhancements in existing trees cost too much, the only builds to invest heavily in it will be the ones that build around it.

yeah but now a PM can trade archmage for harper and get more int (the cores + the tree) and add int to damage and to-hit with any weapon, plus melee and ranged power...seems kinda OP



example:
Now i have a sun elf PM. I get +8 int from enhancements (2 from sun elf cores, 2 from archmage, 2 from pm, 2 from capstone). From archmage, i also get +1DC to necromantic spells.
But now, i could change archmage for harper and get +10 int (2 from sun elf cores, 2 from harper cores, 2 from harper tree, 2 from pm, 2 from capstone), so i'd get the same necro DC, but +1 to all the rest.
the trade off is some sp (idk, like 50 max ?) for int to hit and damage with every weapon, melee and ranged power. I think it's too much.

edit: i read it again and noticed know your foe. So it's +1 to necro DC and +2 to the rest...only losing some spell pen but who the hell cares...

[EllisDee37]

Make Know the Angles full int mod like mights full mod bonus.

That would make it twice as effective as might. Might gives full mod bonus to strength, not damage and tactics. It works out to the same as half mod bonus to damage and tactics, or 3/4 mod bonus to damage on THF.

[Severlin]

Some follow up:

~ We envision Eberron characters who spend points in this tree to be House Phiarlan operatives.

~ We like the idea of allowing players to unlock this through Harper favor and can look into adding that for Update 24.

Sev~

[Alavatar]

yeah but now a PM can trade archmage for harper and get more int (the cores + the tree) and add int to damage and to-hit with any weapon, plus melee and ranged power...seems kinda OP

example:
Now i have a sun elf PM. I get +8 int from enhancements (2 from sun elf cores, 2 from archmage, 2 from pm, 2 from capstone). From archmage, i also get +1DC to necromantic spells.
But now, i could change archmage for harper and get +10 int (2 from sun elf cores, 2 from harper cores, 2 from harper tree, 2 from pm, 2 from capstone), so i'd get the same necro DC, but +1 to all the rest.
the trade off is some sp (idk, like 50 max ?) for int to hit and damage with every weapon, melee and ranged power. I think it's too much.

I tested a Sun Elf Wizard 20 (+epic) last night. For S&Gs I decides to take some bow feats as well (PBS, Rapid Shot, Manyshot) and did some tests. My conclusion is that DC casting + doing bow damage is neither easy, nor effective. The character is still effective at DC casting, but damage via weapon was a no-go unless you have Mortal Fear on a bow and manyshot active.

I plan on testing a Wizard 17/Paladin 3 EK next. Will miss out on Lich INT, but will instead be a Wraith in Sacred Defense (if I can get the AP to fit).

[Qhualor]

Some follow up:

~ We envision Eberron characters who spend points in this tree to be House Phiarlan operatives.

~ We like the idea of allowing players to unlock this through Harper favor and can look into adding that for Update 24.

Sev~

1. can you please explain what that means?

2. 2 thumbs up

[Coldin]

1. can you please explain what that means?

House Phiarlan has a secret set of spies within their house. In fact, their "Performances" are really just a front for their espionage activities. You see some of this during the House P quest lines.

[Severlin]

1. can you please explain what that means?

We had some players asking a question about the lore of taking Harper Agent on low level Eberron characters. Although the tree is named Harper Agent for flavor it also works nicely for characters who are envisioned to be operatives from House Phiarlan.

Sev~

[G_Lich]

Some follow up:

~ We envision Eberron characters who spend points in this tree to be House Phiarlan operatives.

~ We like the idea of allowing players to unlock this through Harper favor and can look into adding that for Update 24.

Sev~

If only this came earlier we wouldnt have tons of freeloader whining to sift through.

Played this on my 16art/2ftr/2mnk (swf+ips repeater) and while it didnt deliver much defense it is a boost to much needed ranged power (how many volleys should it take me to kill a mob with 3 ranger pl's). that being said... a lot of my "damage" is still coming from hoping mortal fear goes off... now my swf dwarven axe dmg is a diff story.

[Free2Pay]

Would be nice if being Completionist also unlock this tree too?

[Qhualor]

House Phiarlan has a secret set of spies within their house. In fact, their "Performances" are really just a front for their espionage activities. You see some of this during the House P quest lines.

oh I see. its just a story thing. I thought maybe it had something to do with how it affected the development of your character as you spent points in the tree.

[harry-pancreas]

If you want my suggestion on a way to make it work, have it tied to HARPER favor. Then you could do similar with other useless favor rewards (PDK 500, The Twelve 250). But you likely care more about money than fixing your game, so good luck and fair travels.

turbine, please do this ^^

[Thrudh]

Okay, this tree might be on the verge of being OP, but I love it anyway, great desgin, also finally an alternative to Divine Might for players who want to do max dps.

Now, off to make an INT based monk on lama.

I really like it too.... INT-based Bard/rogue here I come...

Really nice for Assassin characters

[Thrudh]

If the tree's can't be earned in game, I will be leaving here with Rove.

VIPs get it for free. Since you have a subscription, you get it for free....

FTP people who threaten to leave the game because they refuse to spend money probably doesn't worry Turbine too much (yes, we want to keep players, but if you say "Either give me everything for free or I quit!", they pretty much have to let you quit)