Master's Blitz Feedback, round two

[Zoda]

Since the other one got closed. I'd like to hear some pros and cons about the mechanic itself compared to its version on live, the melee/ranged power number can be tweaked, I don't think that's the important question here.

Pros:
um???

Cons:
-Available to every build regardless of it having tactical feats or not (you could technically charge it with only sunder and trip, but if you do you deserve it!)
-Available during boss fights for the full party, making raids way too easy (and spellcasters by no means competitive dps aside from Joy)
-With the option to get 30 prr out of it and its new availability during boss fights even tanks will pick it over Sentinel for most raids (I'm sure I will, and I tank as many e/e raids as one can nowdays on Argo)
-It's technically a passive that takes like 30 seconds to turn on (if you have doubts about how fast it charges, I can upload a video of cleaving the test kobolds)

I think releasing it on live in this form would be a trainwreck.

[Wizza]

I will just add a /signed because I don't want to repeat myself again.

This new mechanic is silly. 8 Blitzers beating on any boss you are ever going to come up with will be down in a matter of seconds and maybe a couple of minutes.

[Spoonwelder]

I will just add a /signed because I don't want to repeat myself again.

This new mechanic is silly. 8 Blitzers beating on any boss you are ever going to come up with will be down in a matter of seconds and maybe a couple of minutes.

Agreed - blitz as it was/is works- it's great for soloing and/or good group play. The over melee destinies were ok album really showed well in groups/ raids. Furyshot is a superb raid finisher- EiN and he knockdown thing makes. GMOF really handy for most monks. The only problem with the pure destinies is the short duration and long cools owns of their destinies versus how easy it is to charge and maintain blitz. Tweak those and you may have a competition.

ie make fury charge on crit not just vorpal - that still wouldn't be OP vs blitz due solely to he cool down or have shadow charges add 5% damage boost to SA.

In the end the solution is simple turbine and is going to take some real work to fix.

[mrunlimited]

There are a few issues with blitz that is currently live that people here dont seem to remember. With the on kill blitz charge, yes it helps balance blitz somewhat compared to how it triggered on attack on lamia, but it created a dynamic in groups that was not fun for other players. I personally have used blitz a good deal and in groups I just dont anymore. It is stressful to keep up charges running with pms and swashbucklers or other blitzers. On my swash buckler, ive been yelled at for using coup de grace by several blitzers wanting to keep their steam going and that just isnt a way to promote cooperative play. Also, you do not even need to hit things in combat to charge it which seems borked...

Aside from this, all other epic moments are just that, moments. Blitz does not need to have the on kill charge mechanic like it does on live, however it does need to have a limited duration. I know many people who are blitz users that are gonna hate on that statement but seriously, its overpowered now on live and on the test server and it is not because it has insanely high damage but because it doesnt have limitations.

I for one feel a super long cool down is not the answer though. I propose a different route; Have the charge requirement but lower it to say 20-25. In addition, have it last for one minute with a cooldown of say 3 minutes. That feels long enough to make boss fights not seem trivial, at the same time letting blitzers have their moments of awesomeness.

Another idea, maybe have the cooldown 5 minutes, and have blitz start at 10 stacks that decay every 5 seconds, and refresh a stack any time you score a vorpal.

EDIT: I dont like the vorpal idea after thinking on it, it feels too fow and not masters bltz. Change that to this, no charges required cool down at 4 min using successful combat maneuvers lowers the cool down by 2s each.

[Nightmanis]

Since the other one got closed. I'd like to hear some pros and cons about the mechanic itself compared to its version on live, the melee/ranged power number can be tweaked, I don't think that's the important question here.

Pros:
um???

Cons:
-Available to every build regardless of it having tactical feats or not (you could technically charge it with only sunder and trip, but if you do you deserve it!)
-Available during boss fights for the full party, making raids way too easy (and spellcasters by no means competitive dps aside from Joy)
-With the option to get 30 prr out of it and its new availability during boss fights even tanks will pick it over Sentinel for most raids (I'm sure I will, and I tank as many e/e raids as one can nowdays on Argo)
-It's technically a passive that takes like 30 seconds to turn on (if you have doubts about how fast it charges, I can upload a video of cleaving the test kobolds)

I think releasing it on live in this form would be a trainwreck.

Oh I've got a random idea.

First 30 seconds it's 10% on hit, 20% on kill. After 30 seconds, it's the old style on kill. Maybe even make it a % on kill, 50% or lower.

Then again, that makes it somewhat problematic. If you're wanting to use it for trash cleanup it's ok if the party works together to bring the blitzer all the trash. If you're wanting to solo, it's a bit of a pain in the ashes.

I'll echo what I've seen many times. I do not envy the devs here.

[Enoach]

After seeing some videos provided by characters much better suited for Melee DPS I can see that the 10% on Hit ratio will be a determent to them being able to preserve blitz or stack it to 10.

But of all the Epic moments only two ED's offer one that can be activated at the beginning of a quest and potentially be kept running to the end of a quest:
Legendary Dreadnought's Master Blitz
&
Primal Avatar's Avatar of Nature - However, I've had a hard time keeping this one going past getting to Size 4 and usually in less then 20 seconds after that i'm done. I have not seen many use this ability so there just might be a way to keep it going.

All other ED's have Epic Moments that last anywhere between Instantaneous and 3 minutes with 5 to 6 minute cooldown.

MB also has currently a silly requirement of 50 charges from tactical feat usage - but it does not have to be used against a mob with a hit/miss required, it can be used outside of combat standing around, it can be charged up before entering a quest again without actually having to use it against a foe. I'm all for removing this charging mechanic - I think GMoF - Everything is nothing should also be readjusted as far as earning charges as well such as having to actually use it against an enemy as well as reduce the charges needed by 1/2. Maybe MB should be the same, it only charges on a dice roll to determine hit/miss - does not matter if it succeeded or failed only that it was used against a Mob.

Now maybe MB should be adjusted in such a way that it falls in line with the time limit of how long it is active - Won't fix the 8 Blitzer's all activating at the same time, but would make the ability fall more in line with other EDs. Maybe something like 2.5 minutes with 5 minute cooldown. Remove stacks and have the full benefit from start to finish.

To me the flaw in the current blitz is that charges are based on Kills and not successful uses of tactical abilities such as Trip, Sunder, Stun, and SAP, as well as the cleaves. Maybe that is another option to tie MB stacks to use of tactical abilities - 100% chance to charge on a Successful Trip, Sunder, Stun and SAP and 33% Chance of charge on any of the Cleaves with successful hit (not graze) - Include all hits in a cleave as part of the calculation. This would still give melee a chance to maintain the stacks without having a chance for Kill Drama as well as maintain it in a boss fight. This will also give tactical melee types an advantage but still allow the pure DPS ones a chance to maintain it.

[maddong]

Blitz, zeal, and unbridled fury should all be of limited scope and considered equal.

We need to nerf what needs to be nerfed. You can't balance everyone compared to current solo blitzes and fury shot and still have challenge left in the game.

Nerf us, throw a special promotion, and give out +20 hearts again.

[Zoda]

There are a few issues with blitz that is currently live that people here dont seem to remember. With the on kill blitz charge, yes it helps balance blitz somewhat compared to how it triggered on attack on lamia, but it created a dynamic in groups that was not fun for other players. I personally have used blitz a good deal and in groups I just dont anymore. It is stressful to keep up charges running with pms and swashbucklers or other blitzers. On my swash buckler, ive been yelled at for using coup de grace by several blitzers wanting to keep their steam going and that just isnt a way to promote cooperative play. Also, you do not even need to hit things in combat to charge it which seems borked...

I still refuse to see this as a flaw of the ability, players with bad attitude have their bad attitude with or without blitz. Also there isn't a single quest that requires blitz to complete, espeically not with a party. On the other hand if you are in an underpowered party that DOES require blitz to complete a quest, it does promote cooperatice play. With the mechanic on live, the only time a good player loses blitz is when there are simply not enough mobs to kill, which means that your group is already bursting through that given quest and you have no need for blitz whatsoever. I disagree with the mentality that every player should be capable of doing everything without practice/skill/game knowledge etc.

Blitz, zeal, and unbridled fury should all be of limited scope and considered equal.

We need to nerf what needs to be nerfed. You can't balance everyone compared to current solo blitzes and fury shot and still have challenge left in the game.

Nerf us, throw a special promotion, and give out +20 hearts again.

I'd be cool with that.

[Thayion516]

Master's Blitz: Tier 6 Epic Moment. 3 minute cooldown.

10% chance on any melee hit to get 1 stack of Incoming Blitz!

When you have 50 Blitz charges you may activate Master's Blitz: You gain 50 charges of Master's Blitz. Each charge grants +3% melee and range power. You loose one charge every 2 seconds.

While Master's Blitz is active you gain +15% Insight bonus to dodge and +25 Insight bonus to PPR.

I would be ok with this. 100 seconds of blitzing which gradually counts down (aka fatigue) with 80 seconds to try and build it back up (aka determination).

Honestly, this looks like what it should have been to begin with... or something close.

[Zoda]

Master's Blitz: Tier 6 Epic Moment. 3 minute cooldown.

10% chance on any melee hit to get 1 stack of Incoming Blitz!

When you have 50 Blitz charges you may activate Master's Blitz: You gain 50 charges of Master's Blitz. Each charge grants +3% melee and range power. You loose one charge every 2 seconds.

While Master's Blitz is active you gain +15% Insight bonus to dodge and +25 Insight bonus to PPR.

I would be ok with this. 100 seconds of blitzing which gradually counts down (aka fatigue) with 80 seconds to try and build it back up (aka determination).

Honestly, this looks like what it should have been to begin with... or something close.

Gigantic nerf, but I'd still prefer something like that over the "passive" version that's currently on Lama.

[Kalevor]

I think MB should be an epic "moment" like the other ones... it is silly that one epic moment last until the end of a quest. With the introduction of melee power to game there is no need to mantein this OP ability...

1) Make a 30 secs of xtra 100 melee/ranged power. Cooldown of 3 min.
2) no charge process.
3) muilti selector : +15% to dodge or +25PRR passive bonus all the time.

That's it. It's balanced to other ED. IMHO.


My 2cents

Edit: it is still too powerfull... make the multiselector last just when the epic moment is running...

[droid327]

Well keep in mind a couple things about the dev's intention:

-They don't want to create a situation where Blitzers have to change their gameplay style while Blitzing in a group - ie, Blitz needs to be fully usable while just "playing normally"

-They want LD to be a viable melee option but not eclipse other melee destinies

-They're cool with the idea of LD having a fully sustainable Epic Moment, as long as the destiny is balanced overall

So, to that end, I think on-hit Blitz building is here to stay (and I support that mechanic, for the reasons the devs adopted it). Maybe the 10% mark needs to be tweaked, but probably not - people aren't reporting problems *keeping* their Blitz, only keeping it maxed, which, sad violin...

Blitz is going to be the highest DPS melee destiny - that's its portfolio. It lacks any defense like Sentinel, it lacks any selfhealing or debuffing like Crusader. It's sustained DPS, whereas FotW is burst DPS (and is also "sustainable" through an entire quest since it recharges). So yes, if you have a full squad of blitzers, they're going to smack down huge-bag-of-HP bosses the most efficiently. But with naught but Cocoon for heals, the question is how they'll stay alive themselves.

Honestly, I think current Blitz OP-ness (heh, p-ness) is more a symptom of the overreach of Melee Power. If it wasn't for the huge across-the-board boost all melees are getting, then Blitz would just take you from good to great, not from great to God-mode.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Master's Blitz Epic Moment : Active Ability: (Cooldown 5 mins) Activate For 150 seconds, you gain +50% dodge or 30 PRR and deal +100% melee damage that decrements by 10% every 15 seconds.

[Zoda]

Blitz is going to be the highest DPS melee destiny - that's its portfolio. It lacks any defense like Sentinel, it lacks any selfhealing or debuffing like Crusader. It's sustained DPS, whereas FotW is burst DPS (and is also "sustainable" through an entire quest since it recharges). So yes, if you have a full squad of blitzers, they're going to smack down huge-bag-of-HP bosses the most efficiently. But with naught but Cocoon for heals, the question is how they'll stay alive themselves.

I don't see why it has to be highest melee dps destiny by definition. Saying that it lacks defense is complete BS, it gives 50 hp, Thick Skinned, Unstoppable, Unmovable and caps dodge or gives 30% prr while blitz is active, now I don't know what game are you playing, but that's amazing defense in DDO. I'd argue that Unstoppable is one of the best defensive abilities in the game.

Saying that they only have Coccoon for selfheal is also incorrect. First of all we are all aware how Bladeforged is completely busted (and if there is one thing that needs a nerf in ddo I vote that recon SLA before anything else). Many melee classes have access to cure spells which can cover heals on the highest level, for example my build with 12 bard levels can stand toe to toe with any e/e raidboss just with cures and coccoon (and it's a dwarf, so no improved recovery line, a pure human paladin will outclass all my defense/dps/healing by far after the changes). Other than cures, it's super easy now to get the 40 UMD for heal scrolls, and there is always the option to use SF pots which can be used with great effificency if you build around them (and there are store healing elixirs too). Now if all that is not enough, you can always look for a healer - I know, I know... so 2011. The complete absence of healers just show how EVERYTHING can selfheal just fine, special thanks to devs for that, you made an MMO that doesn't require healers whatsoever - and then you talk about how you are trying to promote grouping. Ironic if you think about it.

[droid327]

I don't see why it has to be highest melee dps destiny by definition. Saying that it lacks defense is complete BS, it gives 50 hp, Thick Skinned, Unstoppable, Unmovable and caps dodge or gives 30% prr while blitz is active, now I don't know what game are you playing, but that's amazing defense in DDO. I'd argue that Unstoppable is one of the best defensive abilities in the game.

I don't think any of the core ABs count as "defense". Dodge-based melee are going to be at or near Dodge cap anyway, so Blitz isn't going to add much extra defense. So 30 PRR is all the tree can really speak for in terms of sustained damage mitigation - compare to 30 PRR and DR 10/Epic just from one core in Sentinel, plus 35 Resist, 40% Fort, +3 Saves, another 15 PRR with shield, and sizeable AC bonuses.

LD is the tree most singularly focused around sustained weapon DPS, the most purely martial tree. That's why its, expectedly, the biggest boost to your weapon DPS.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

I agree that Blitz should be more like Righteous Zeal: a burst of anger that eventually slows down to a stop, until it is charged again.

Carry on.

[Pescha]

It was already bad enough on lammania compared to Masters Blitz on live due to it being dependent

on whether you have a high dps output or not which favours the latter by a lot, that means

if you have a low dps output to begin with you will favor more from it than someone who is 1-2 shoting on EE difficulty.

Not signed.

[Zoda]

I don't think any of the core ABs count as "defense".

Think it or not, they are. They prevent you from dying. Especially Unstoppable. Maybe dodge based melees (I didn't know that's a thing, but so be it), would get capped dodge without blitz if they wanted but that requires investment in form of AP/gear/twists/whatnot that gets freed ub by blitz (or they simply pick 30 prr and laugh at players using sentinel)

And who cares about Sentinel's defense anyway, it's dps is nonsense, and it's defense is barely better than LD's, not to mention that more defense is absolutely not required as long as the game is in it's current state. Dr 10 is meaningless because of the shadowscale, resists are meaningless because noone gives a **** about magic damage: you either evade it or laugh at it because of your mmr. 40% extra fort is unnecessary, +3 saves as well, the shield bonus prr is an easy twist if you have a shield (and you do it for the doublestrike not the prr anyway...), AC is meaningless in endgame.

All the you get from sentinel that LD lacks is a chunk of hp, renewal and a completely unreliable knockdown immunity. All that in exchange for uber dps, thick skinned, unstoppable, unmovable.

And then I haven't even considered the interaction between advancing blows and purple dragon focus, which is an incredibly powerful defensive combination for a grand total of 3 AP.

[Thrudh]

Blitz needs be an epic "MOMENT"... with a limited duration, and a semi-long cooldown.

You could make it even more powerful if you want, as long as it's duration is limited. It shouldn't be a "all quest long" epic "moment".

[Thrudh]

They're cool with the idea of LD having a fully sustainable Epic Moment, as long as the destiny is balanced overall

They shouldn't be... It's a bad idea. Epic Moments should be powerful but limited duration. They could add more DPS in other LD abilities if they think limiting blitz hurts the LD destiny too much.