The Official Why Aren't you Adding Ranged Power to EDs That Are Bad at Ranged Thread?

[jakeelala]

You're doing it for levels and ED's for Melee Power.

There should be the same or similar addition to Ranged Power. Just because Monkchers are good in LD and Fury doesn't mean they should be terrible in literally every other destiny including Shiradi. In fact, that's the argument for why you need to add Ranged Power to most destinies and to Epic Levels.

Would love to hear relevant arguments why this is not true.

[Violith]

You're doing it for levels and ED's for Melee Power.

There should be the same or similar addition to Ranged Power. Just because Monkchers are good in LD and Fury doesn't mean they should be terrible in literally every other destiny including Shiradi. In fact, that's the argument for why you need to add Ranged Power to most destinies and to Epic Levels.

Would love to hear relevant arguments why this is not true.

the addition to melee power was to bring melee up to par with casters and ranged. So it makes sense that they would only focus on melee at the moment. also, since blitz is giving ranged power along with melee power, its quite possible that the epic levels will give ranged power also, though im not sure on that.

it has already been said that EDs will receive ranged power in the future, most likely after they crunch the numbers between the melee power and casters/ranged once its on live.

[Takllin]

You're doing it for levels and ED's for Melee Power.

There should be the same or similar addition to Ranged Power. Just because Monkchers are good in LD and Fury doesn't mean they should be terrible in literally every other destiny including Shiradi. In fact, that's the argument for why you need to add Ranged Power to most destinies and to Epic Levels.

Would love to hear relevant arguments why this is not true.

Geez, people, please read Dev posts before you go clamoring about something that isn't true.

They have stated that they are only working on melee power currently, and that ranged power is going to be added into the game at a later date. It isn't that they won't add ranger power, they are just solely focusing on melee power for the time being.

[Silverleafeon]

Geez, people, please read Dev posts before you go clamoring about something that isn't true.

They have stated that they are only working on melee power currently, and that ranged power is going to be added into the game at a later date. It isn't that they won't add ranger power, they are just solely focusing on melee power for the time being.

This.

[blerkington]

Hi,

For whatever reason, shiradi has been left out of the melee power increase that every other primal and martial destiny is getting, as well as a divine one.

I think this omission, and what you're talking about, is an attempt to 'balance' the destinies. Perhaps the thinking is that destinies which get a melee power buff shouldn't also get a ranged power buff. The problem with this line of thinking is that the abilities in FoTW and LD work very well with ranged combat too, and will continue to do so.

It's already possible to deliver massive amounts of damage in ranged combat with FoTW and LD compared to the other primal and martial destines. This will be further increased if there is an addition to ranged combat power for each epic level above 20, even if those two destinies don't receive additional increases for their core abilities.

The outcome of this will be that shiradi, which is already a weak ranged destiny in terms of its damage output, will continue to lag behind FoTW and LD as a DPS destiny for ranged characters. It will be even further behind for those running in it who also melee. It will also continue to favour high rate of fire builds over low rate of fire builds, which is a serious problem with the destiny now, and will become even more so. That doesn't really seem like balance to me.

The more I read about the introduction of melee and ranged power, the more it seems to me that it will create more problems than it will solve. Time will tell, but I think the better solution would have been to rework some of the EDs, with particular attention to the very well and badly performing ones, rather than this band aid solution we are getting.

Thanks.

[jakeelala]

None of you are addressing the fact that being a Monkcher or Thrower in ANY destiny other than Fury or LD (NEITHER OF WHICH ARE RANGED DESTINIES) makes a complete gimp.

1. Monkchers are only good in Fury because of Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow. Without that they are a joke (ie all other destinies)

2. Monkchers are only good in LD because of 10 Stacks of Masters Blitz, which will be getting Ranged power this update. This totally negates the argument that Melee Power is meant to make Melee's more competitive with ranged. All that's happening this update is that ALL ranged characters will be forced to ALWAYS be in LD because everything else will be terrible.

So why isn't Ranged power being added to other destinies? Ranged builds are arguably worse off in other destinies than LD and FotW now than Melee builds.

Ranged builds are not inherently good, they are only good if you make specific builds in specific destinies. Otherwise, they are largely terrible.

If you play a ranged character (thrown, or bow, or XBow), you will be a fool not to run in LD after this update, since it's the only one with Ranged Power going in.

I hope you all like having only 1 good Destiny to run in. That's what this update is doing.

[Takllin]

None of you are addressing the fact that being a Monkcher or Thrower in ANY destiny other than Fury or LD (NEITHER OF WHICH ARE RANGED DESTINIES) makes a complete gimp.

1. Monkchers are only good in Fury because of Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow. Without that they are a joke (ie all other destinies)

2. Monkchers are only good in LD because of 10 Stacks of Masters Blitz, which will be getting Ranged power this update. This totally negates the argument that Melee Power is meant to make Melee's more competitive with ranged. All that's happening this update is that ALL ranged characters will be forced to ALWAYS be in LD because everything else will be terrible.

So why isn't Ranged power being added to other destinies? Ranged builds are arguably worse off in other destinies than LD and FotW now than Melee builds.

Ranged builds are not inherently good, they are only good if you make specific builds in specific destinies. Otherwise, they are largely terrible.

If you play a ranged character (thrown, or bow, or XBow), you will be a fool not to run in LD after this update, since it's the only one with Ranged Power going in.

I hope you all like having only 1 good Destiny to run in. That's what this update is doing.

Please wait until they actually add Ranged Power into the game, your making a huge fuss about something that hasn't even been implemented yet. They didn't purposefully leave ranged power out of destinies because they don't want ranged characters to use those destinies.

They didn't add it yet simply because they are focusing on Melee Power now, and then they will do Ranged Power.

[blerkington]

Please wait until they actually add Ranged Power into the game, your making a huge fuss about something that hasn't even been implemented yet. They didn't purposefully leave ranged power out of destinies because they don't want ranged characters to use those destinies.

They didn't add it yet simply because they are focusing on Melee Power now, and then they will do Ranged Power.

Hi,

No, nothing has been announced yet. I can't speak for the OP, but at this point it's probably safe to make two assumptions about what will occur.

1. That ranged power will only be added to the core abilities of EDs which didn't receive melee power boosts.

It's very hard for me to believe that Turbine would boost already strong destinies like LD and FoTW by giving them both melee and ranged power buffs. Shiradi is likely to receive a buff. I'm not sure what will happen to shadowdancer, primal avatar and GMOF, but although I suspect they won't get it, it might not matter either way.

2. That the ranged power buff will be similar to the buffs for melee power.

I think this one is less certain, but will probably occur. It's also possible that there won't be a flat epic level increase to ranged power and that it will only be applied to the core ED abilities of certain destinies, due to the belief that ranged combat is already strong enough in most cases.

That would be a shame in my view, because there the field of ranged builds putting out decent DPS for difficult endgame content is pretty limited. The rest lag quite far behind and are really flavour choices with niche effectiveness but overall seem to have quite suboptimal DPS. I love playing my shiradi ranger, but I'm not kidding myself that he puts out anywhere near the ranged damage of a FOTW or LD build.

Anyway, I don't think there's any harm in getting a speculative discussion going about this. In fact, I think it's quite important because there seems to be a lack of understanding at Turbine about ranged combat.

I think the devs who have in recent discussions indicated to us that they didn't understand blitz worked with ranged combat, and who stated in another post that they think it's multishot (sic) and 10k stars which give ranged power at epic levels rather than ED selection and build synergy (sorry), should be commended for their honesty rather than ridiculed for lack of understanding. But it also does worry me that we are hearing things like this.

The point I made in my last post was that the way certain abilities in the EDs work for ranged combat applying selective ranged power buffs to some destinies might not do a lot to even things out between them in terms of their damage output.

I think FOTW and LD will continue to remain strong choices because of the way their best abilities work with ranged combat, and while shiradi will improve somewhat it still won't be overall competitive, not for full-time ranged combat, and certainly not for melee/ranged hybrids.

I think the better solution would be reworking the destinies, but that doesn't seem like a realistic option at this point.

Thanks.

[jakeelala]

I agree with Astrican on some points.

Largely that the Devs don't seem to understand where current power comes from for ranged builds, and that Melee and Ranged power are not the way to fix issues, reworking destinies is.

[Kawai]

... complete gimp.

1. Monkchers are only good in Fury because of Adrenaline + Slayer Arrow. Without that they are a joke (ie all other destinies)

2 ...everything else will be terrible.

3. Ranged builds are not inherently good, they are only good if you make specific builds in specific destinies. Otherwise, they are largely terrible.

I hope you all like having only 1 good Destiny to run in. That's what this update is doing.

Wow.
Srsly
I have utmost respect for any 2006er
but pray tell, how does one hang around that long without knowing how to build/play ranged?

do u roll one, then delete it after lvl 2?

srsly

or did u take a long break?
r u one of those "back in DDO need help" threaders?

don't understand.
_______________________

now the me me me me part everyone hates:
ive built just about every ranged build there is, most of which the lemmings here will never see & copy over.
dont have any issues with any of them...
-INCLUDING PURE RANGER (which is just fine in EE)

let them have their passes
whtvr

Sev's already said Ranged will have a pass in future.
cross that bridge when it gets here.
*shrug

[Enderoc]

You're doing it for levels and ED's for Melee Power.

There should be the same or similar addition to Ranged Power. Just because Monkchers are good in LD and Fury doesn't mean they should be terrible in literally every other destiny including Shiradi. In fact, that's the argument for why you need to add Ranged Power to most destinies and to Epic Levels.

Would love to hear relevant arguments why this is not true.

You think you are the only player running around in off destinies?

[azziem]

You're doing it for levels and ED's for Melee Power.

There should be the same or similar addition to Ranged Power. Just because Monkchers are good in LD and Fury doesn't mean they should be terrible in literally every other destiny including Shiradi. In fact, that's the argument for why you need to add Ranged Power to most destinies and to Epic Levels.

Would love to hear relevant arguments why this is not true.

or similarly why ranged artificers cant get ranged love in an arcane tree (draconic im looking at you) when they can only choose arcane trees