We need a tiered loot system

[Mryal]

I see no reason for tiered loot.

What I find funny is that on one hand you have people talking about how great the end game was when cap was at 20. On the other hand people talking about how they hate the seal/scroll/shard system. It was the Seal/Scroll/Shard system that made that end game what it was. You had to run quests to get the parts to make your item. It took a long time and it did feel good to make an item.

As they start creating the new end game my vote would be to bring back the seal/scroll/shard system.

Exactly!

I don't understand how players playing an MMO are content with NOT wanting more for their characters. How can people be content with just playing normal, and never pushing the envelope to try hard, or elite? How can finally doing hard and elite not yield reward for ones efforts? Why does the existence of EE exclusive gear automatically make people think that this "shuts" people out from getting the best gear? It doesn't shut you out. You can go in any time and do it - it is supposed to be difficult, if you win then you get something for it.

Thats why shard/seal/scroll was so good.You not only had to run harder content, but you had to be able to run it for a lifetime :P

[JOTMON]

I see no reason for tiered loot.

What I find funny is that on one hand you have people talking about how great the end game was when cap was at 20. On the other hand people talking about how they hate the seal/scroll/shard system. It was the Seal/Scroll/Shard system that made that end game what it was. You had to run quests to get the parts to make your item. It took a long time and it did feel good to make an item.

As they start creating the new end game my vote would be to bring back the seal/scroll/shard system.

On the face of it the shard/seal/scroll system was good.. unfortunately the randomness and rareness of certain items killed it.
things like Esos Shards, Spell storing Ring seal/shard.. became so rare of a drop that it became a hated system. The complete randomness of it was the failure.
the Exchange program revitalized part of it.. although the 3 to 1 was a bit generous.. should have been 20 to1.
Or even reward lists on incremental 20/40 for shards seals of your choice would have saved the system as most people wanted more than just 1 item from these packs.


Shroud was the best mechanic in my opinion.
tradable unbound ingredients, shards & stones were bound and required people to run the content to get them.
Crafting to build what you want to go where you want made these items useful to every toon/class combination regardless of any nuance they had.
if you wanted a belt or a helm or whatever... it was craftable and suited what you wanted where you wanted.
If you wanted a falchion or a dagger.. it was craftable and was fairly similar in damage output/benefit.
1 shroud was not enough.. most of my toons have 6 or more shroud gear/weapons each for clickies, and other unique effects buffs which are still usable right through to endgame.

The extent of choices was huge for greensteel.. this is where alchemical failed, Thunderforged is good atm.. but still more like alchemical in its limited choices..

Out of every pack available in DDO.. Shroud is the must have pack that every player should have in my opinion.

[JOTMON]

How did you get enough stones to upgrade after one run on EE and one on EC?

fail to read I see.

Ran it twice on EE all 3 versions. so.. 6 times all options full exploration runs.
Rani it twice on Ecasual solo cause I was bored. full circuit. ..
also had run it many other times on enorm with groups farming items and collecting stones.

[Caarb]

It's probably already been said but the reason I hate the EN/EH/EE system is the different MLs of each tier.

[slarden]

fail to read I see.

Ran it twice on EE all 3 versions. so.. 6 times all options full exploration runs.
Rani it twice on Ecasual solo cause I was bored. full circuit. ..
also had run it many other times on enorm with groups farming items and collecting stones.

Based on what you wrote you couldn't have upgraded the items. Of course the "many other runs" part is new information so it appears you did have a reason to run it more after all.

Ran a couple EE's didn't get much reward wise, but was a fun quest to run.. got killed in traps a lot.. but was still fun..
Then I ran it on solo Epic Casual twice because there was nothing else going on and I was bored..and got 3 different named items per run.. pretty much got everything there was to get from it that was of any interest to me.
Many others didn't even run the quest just bought the items off the ASAH... or regular AH..

If you ran EE you had to the significant drop off in # of stones on EC and EN. This required many more runs to upgrade the 6 items you supposedly received with 2 EC runs. That's incredible luck to get 3 named its with such a low drop rate 2 runs of EC in a row. Almost unbelievable luck you might say.

[IronClan]

Throughout the days of gianthold, high road, and the more recent stormhorns and wheloon adventure packs, the developers introduced a tiered loot system where the loot would gradually improve with the difficulty of the quest.

With this system, more casual easy going players were capable of tackling end-game content at a more comfortable level, while extracting the respective level of endgame loot.

At the same time, high-caliber players mostly avoided the lower difficulty options because there existed a carrot, an incentive, an impetus to consistently tackle endgame content at its most challenging level.

Additionally, the more casual easy going folk had complete opportunity to team up with their higher caliber friends in order to equip themselves with some of the higher level versions of endgame loot.

This system maintained the longevity of content throughout the entire endgame population. The likes of gianthold and high road were visited ad nauseum in order to acquire the different levels of treasure. Today, the epic elite versions of gianthold items are still relevant albeit the newer content that has been released since.

Today, the developers neglect to recognize the importance of such a system in maintaining the longevity of endgame content. Abandoning the tiered loot system left the most recent content barely lucrative. All of the loot has been extracted through repeated normal zerg runs. The haunted halls, temple of deathwyrm, and fire on thunder peak would have kept high calibre players busy for months trying to tackle these challenges in order to acquire the treasures.

Now, the developers are yet again making the same mistake. Epic orchard does not have a tiered loot system. All of the highest level loot is up for grabs the moment we decide to steam roll the content. Longevity is a fantasy, and I bet this is the reason why we perceive the game as "too easy" - the developers stopped manufacturing any impetus to do anything above normal.

Return the tiered loot system, please. Everybody wins.

I agree with this post and along with Ishr and a couple others have been bugging them about this on the PC forum I believe I am allowed to say that they have posted that they have no plans to bring this style of loot back, so if you agree that the game is lacking incentives to run more challenging difficulty then speaking up about it is probably the only way to get their attention and maybe get them to change their minds.

[IronClan]

It's probably already been said but the reason I hate the EN/EH/EE system is the different MLs of each tier.

Why? It allowed me to pickup a skullsmasher plan my build based on that weapon farm one heroic version trade for one with a buddy and use them at 13 14 and 15 which worked wonderfully until I got my EN one out of the bank at 23 was it? Then the EE one a couple levels later, and the EE one is most definitely end game worthy even to 30 with a 3.5 (W) etc...

Why would you hate something that allows a character concept to remain viable and potent for a huge range of levels? Do we really only want TF weapons to be used past mid 20's? What a bland concept that would be. They are already screwing us out of cool stuff like Epic Deathnips because of Thunder forged weapons... the game needs loot to be viable for wider ranges of levels, tiered loot accomplished that and for some of us multiplied the number of loot items to quest for.

I didn't just need heroic normal skullsmasher, I tried for a hard and a EH one many times... I probably ran Crucible 10 or 15 more times than I otherwise would have ... longevity of content is increased with tiered loot and I think that fact is under appreciated by turbine.

[Seljuck]

I was bored in work, so I made fast poll about loot systems. You can find it here. It's free, you don't have to make accounts. Vote

End Game Loot Systems Poll

[droid327]

It's probably already been said but the reason I hate the EN/EH/EE system is the different MLs of each tier.

Yeah I skipped to the last page to make sure this point was addressed

Why? It allowed me to pickup a skullsmasher plan my build based on that weapon farm one heroic version trade for one with a buddy and use them at 13 14 and 15 which worked wonderfully until I got my EN one out of the bank at 23 was it? Then the EE one a couple levels later, and the EE one is most definitely end game worthy even to 30 with a 3.5 (W) etc...

Because of TRing, especially ETRing between 20-28. Elite versions should be better than Hard or Normal versions, in every scenario. But having tiered MLs means you can equip the Normal version 2 levels sooner, every life. So instead of just working and acquiring the Elite version, and then selling off your Normal and hard version, you have to keep all 3.

Also, with tiered items (as opposed to upgrade tiers), you're discouraged from socketing things in anything less than the Elite version, because why would you waste augments in a Hard version you're eventually going to replace? Upgrading lets you socket it now, and then upgrade it later with the augment intact.

Ideal option: the FoT system people are describing (I don't raid myself so I don't know exactly) where you can upgrade from the "low" to the "high" version, or just acquire the "high" version from running harder difficulties.
Next best option: a system like Cannith challenges or TF, where you acquire mats from running quests (more mats on higher difficulties) that you can upgrade your items with.
Distant third: The N/H/E tiered loot system (no upgrades), but with the same ML for N/H/E versions.

[harry-pancreas]

I want the seal/scroll/shard system back. Never gonna happen, I know...

we're 2

[Krell]

Throughout the days of gianthold, high road, and the more recent stormhorns and wheloon adventure packs, the developers introduced a tiered loot system where the loot would gradually improve with the difficulty of the quest.

With this system, more casual easy going players were capable of tackling end-game content at a more comfortable level, while extracting the respective level of endgame loot.

At the same time, high-caliber players mostly avoided the lower difficulty options because there existed a carrot, an incentive, an impetus to consistently tackle endgame content at its most challenging level.

Additionally, the more casual easy going folk had complete opportunity to team up with their higher caliber friends in order to equip themselves with some of the higher level versions of endgame loot.

This system maintained the longevity of content throughout the entire endgame population. The likes of gianthold and high road were visited ad nauseum in order to acquire the different levels of treasure. Today, the epic elite versions of gianthold items are still relevant albeit the newer content that has been released since.

Today, the developers neglect to recognize the importance of such a system in maintaining the longevity of endgame content. Abandoning the tiered loot system left the most recent content barely lucrative. All of the loot has been extracted through repeated normal zerg runs. The haunted halls, temple of deathwyrm, and fire on thunder peak would have kept high calibre players busy for months trying to tackle these challenges in order to acquire the treasures.

Now, the developers are yet again making the same mistake. Epic orchard does not have a tiered loot system. All of the highest level loot is up for grabs the moment we decide to steam roll the content. Longevity is a fantasy, and I bet this is the reason why we perceive the game as "too easy" - the developers stopped manufacturing any impetus to do anything above normal.

Return the tiered loot system, please. Everybody wins.

I like the "Mystic" versions better than a tiered system. Everyone has a chance to get it, but your odds are better running elite.

[Takllin]

Based on what you wrote you couldn't have upgraded the items. Of course the "many other runs" part is new information so it appears you did have a reason to run it more after all.



If you ran EE you had to the significant drop off in # of stones on EC and EN. This required many more runs to upgrade the 6 items you supposedly received with 2 EC runs. That's incredible luck to get 3 named its with such a low drop rate 2 runs of EC in a row. Almost unbelievable luck you might say.

Where did he say that he fully upgraded all of the items he got? Could it also be possible that, if he did indeed upgrade all of them, that maybe guildies passed him the stones, or he bought them on the Auction House?

I think you are trying to pick a fight over nothing, I'm not sure why...Are you trying to imply that he "cheated"?

Personally though, I loved the seal/shard/scroll/item system and I wish one we hit level 30, that they would bring it back. I dislike the new mechanic of farming on ENorm, and wish there was a lot more incentive to run EE. Something like tiered loot, or FoT.

[Vargouille]

I'm going to run EE even without tiered loot if the drop rates on epic/mythic items are the highest. Don't really care if the loot is tiered or not but I'd really prefer the non-raid loot to be unbound.

Like now I run short EE halls with miior solo and sell eidolon necklaces for shards to stock up for eOrchard rerolls, with bound loot it's less money for turbine I'd think.

Our current tentative drop rates for Mythic loot are up to ten times as high on Elite, compared to Hard.

[MadCookieQueen]

I'll join on the bandwagon of FoT gear love. To me it was a wonderful system of rewarding harder difficulties but not shutting out players on lower difficulties. Also the idea that on EE you could get something unique for playing that difficulty was pretty amazing. So yeah I ran EE FoTs for the spiffy augment (which I admit was probably a mistake to make it unbound) and the fact that I didn't need to farm for comms to upgrade my stuff...that's just me being lazy.


I prefer loot as bound on equip for everything but raids. I think raid loot should be BtC. Why raid loot and not the rest, you ask.


Because...



I said so ;p

[JOTMON]

If you ran EE you had to the significant drop off in # of stones on EC and EN. This required many more runs to upgrade the 6 items you supposedly received with 2 EC runs. That's incredible luck to get 3 named its with such a low drop rate 2 runs of EC in a row. Almost unbelievable luck you might say.

True, I did have to run a lot of rinse repeat runs to get stones, but that is a lesser mechanic of just farming EN/EH chests with guildies.
EE wasn't worth the effort in most cases as there was no real increase in drop rates, just more time/resources.


as to what I got on the Ecasual runs... Is what it is.

on the 2 Ecasual runs I got.
Lantern Ring (have good rings already so currently not useful.. maybe for an alt)
Necklace of Mystic Eidolons (which I already had)
Purple Dragon Shield - not useful

Magestar (have litany so all other trinkets are relatively subpar)
Manual of Stealthy Pilfering (something I actually wanted)
Purple Dragon Shield 2nd one.. (again not useful for me)


Had the Necklace of Mystic Eidolons and Libram of Silver Magic (Orb) from the EE runs.
Libram turned out to be useless for me because I have a monk splash and it uncenters monk.

Only upgraded the Manual and the Necklace, rest was not that useful to me.

[Bridge_Dweller]

Our current tentative drop rates for Mythic loot are up to ten times as high on Elite, compared to Hard.

That's a start . . . you gotta make some loot sellable. This BTA stuff is bad as once I have the loot I'm looking for for my personal use I have no reason to run the quest again ever. Tradable/sellable loot will keep me interested in content much longer.

[slarden]

Our current tentative drop rates for Mythic loot are up to ten times as high on Elite, compared to Hard.

This is fantastic. Thank you for sharing the #s because there is alot of mythology that the drop rates on elite, hard and normal are virtually the same.

If you make non-raid mythics unbound you may sell more AS. I prefer bound loot myself, but I think others like the unbound items so they have something to sell.

[11001]

10 * 0 = 0 still, just saying.

[slarden]

Where did he say that he fully upgraded all of the items he got? Could it also be possible that, if he did indeed upgrade all of them, that maybe guildies passed him the stones, or he bought them on the Auction House?

I think you are trying to pick a fight over nothing, I'm not sure why...Are you trying to imply that he "cheated"?

Personally though, I loved the seal/shard/scroll/item system and I wish one we hit level 30, that they would bring it back. I dislike the new mechanic of farming on ENorm, and wish there was a lot more incentive to run EE. Something like tiered loot, or FoT.

Nope, I was trying to make the point that you can't just run HH a few times and get all the gear and be done. you need 150 stones per item to upgrade it. If you farm EN you get much less stones vs. running EH or EE. So you either run more or you run on a higher difficulty.

I agree higher difficulties should be rewarded and they already are. I like the new mythic concept alot and the fact that it drops 10x more on EE is plenty of incentive to run EE.

[Krell]

That's a start . . . you gotta make some loot sellable. This BTA stuff is bad as once I have the loot I'm looking for for my personal use I have no reason to run the quest again ever. Tradable/sellable loot will keep me interested in content much longer.

I'll still run content once I have the loot for leveling and fun, but I do agree that BTCoE is an extra incentive, and sometimes I will farm quests for loot to sell. A good game economy gives people another reason to play. Of course that breaks quickly if duping isn't fixed .