U23 Items Feedback thread

[Portalcat]

I'm pretty sure anyone who doesn't give at least 2/3 of these items credit for being best in slot on some of the current EE endgame builds loses all credibility for reviewing these. There's a lot here that either doesn't exist or only exists in one specific slot and without 2 augment colors of your choice.

Almost everything here is going to be used - this represents substantial power creep, which given this is a new set of quests and raid at level 30, makes sense.




The biggest problem with the U23 loot is BtA. There is no meaningful in-game economy right now for items or ingredients. There was an economy for items when there were rare best-in-slot items from EE or good wondrous craftmanship slottings, but there's very little left to farm for sale anymore. There was an economy for ingredients, but that disappeared after repeated mass dupings, and it doesn't help that best-in-slot weapons are based on ingredients that are now cheap as dirt.

This lack of incentive shortens the endgame.

Are we to assume that the devs have decided that the ASAH was a bad idea and have chosen to deprecate it going forward? I realize that some people would argue that's a good thing, but I would say that it gives me a purpose in decking out my toons and incentive to keep playing them after I do.

[Oxarhamar]

I'm pretty sure anyone who doesn't give at least 2/3 of these items credit for being best in slot on some of the current EE endgame builds loses all credibility for reviewing these. There's a lot here that either doesn't exist or only exists in one specific slot and without 2 augment colors of your choice.

Almost everything here is going to be used - this represents substantial power creep, which given this is a new set of quests and raid at level 30, makes sense.




The biggest problem with the U23 loot is BtA. There is no meaningful in-game economy right now for items or ingredients. There was an economy for items when there were rare best-in-slot items from EE or good wondrous craftmanship slottings, but there's very little left to farm for sale anymore. There was an economy for ingredients, but that disappeared after repeated mass dupings, and it doesn't help that best-in-slot weapons are based on ingredients that are now cheap as dirt.

This lack of incentive shortens the endgame.

Are we to assume that the devs have decided that the ASAH was a bad idea and have chosen to deprecate it going forward? I realize that some people would argue that's a good thing, but I would say that it gives me a purpose in decking out my toons and incentive to keep playing them after I do.

I agree with most of this


A lot of the loot is great for melee, some for casters I see very little my full repeater Arti build would use.

4 items total that might work except for the fact that many of those slots are occupied and there is limited items to replace certain effects.

It created a problem of trying to fit all the effects into competeing slots. I'll probably bank the items I like as I gather them then worry about slotting them all later since I'll rarely be LVL 28 anyway as long as I'm doing ITR & ETR.

Biggest bummer but' no suprize is the rune arm is trash ( every time ) though this is more of a problem with Runearms than the item itself. Still not impressed even considering that.


BTA means the stuff that anyone in group does not need is vender trash.

There is nothing I hate more than BTA vender trash every pack with BTA gear puke!


Upgraded with slots is great we need more slots it's been few items that have the slots like EE Gianthold stuff.

[Aelonwy]

I don't like or approve of the ASAH but I can understand people who want that incentive for farming items. As a compromise, because with all my alts I love BTA, would it be possible for Mythic items to be BTCoE? Thus giving those who use the ASAH incentive to buy and sell some of the new items, but at the same time leaving decent enough items for those of us with a stable of alts.

[Chi_Ryu]

The loot is generally good, but I am very disappointed with the lack of any weapons (and no docent, again?) - I don't care if they are not best in slot and TF is intended to be the über loot, I'd like to use a weapon with some difference in appearance and effect - it is as boring seeing everyone with smoky weapons of Mortal Fear as it was when everyone carried Lit II GS. I was quite looking forward to e.g. Epic Unwavering Ardency or Deathnip.

[bbqzor]

anyone who doesn't give at least 2/3 of these items credit for being best in slot on some of the current EE endgame builds loses all credibility for reviewing these

Far from it. Anyone simply accepting the items over arbitrary best in slot-ness for some random build is doing the game a disservice. How many times has some best in slot item immediately become totally pointless next update. And how many times has some almost good item been passed over from actually being one people would use. The tiny details are what make things polished, professional, and enduring. The game does not need any more slop right now. It needs end game loot done right, which is free from overlooked flaws or forgiven for cut and paste errors because of some best in slot ness.

Take Mentaus Goggles. Okay, +15 Str. People routinely have +13 Str now, and almost certainly +10 Str from 8/2 augments if nothing else. Anyone into seeker already has 12-15 total. It might be best in slot for some build, but its hardly an "end game" type of improvement. Anyone seeking a "max" seeker scenario is going to go with Consuming Darkness and one of the exceptional 5 items. Anyone needing Str can generally get by with 2 points (1 bonus worth) less. At best, this item is a concession, losing out on seeker potential for 2 str and maybe another item slot back. Best in slot? Maybe, for some tactics builds who didnt already slot max seeker. Any real appeal or longevity there? ... Maybe. Nothing special here, totally depends whats released next. Very precarious standing. It would certainly hold an audience better, extending the life of this end game content, if it were a bit more focused and actually offered equal mods to the alternatives, so there was no "losing out" when you swap gear around. You have to re-farm the items, no sense losing stats for the time in. Especially when its all similar level stuff... this isnt 3bc, the items arent usable earlier. They need to have staying power, and 15 str is a gimmick, nothing more. The impact of 2 str while playing is minimal in all but the most specific builds.

Unless I can answer with a solid Yes that its here clear and loud as a life sustaining end game option, why let it slide? Be Critical! The time for feedback is now! They wont adjust things later, this is the time we get to point out the little things, while the means and opportunity is there to get eyes on it. So do so. Agree or disagree with how I think the change should go, fine, but make no mistake about the intent. I made it clear and admit, some of them fail over very tiny things. Things which maybe no one else cares about (belt of thoughtful remembrances 18 vs 21 negative absorb for instance, petty and I know it, but gosh darn it the heroic item shouldnt have a higher stat, any stat). Thats fine.

But dont undercut the motive and thought just because someones being critical. That ignores the content of the feedback simply over the nature of its quantity. My 2 cents on that. And I think we have some similar thoughts on this in some ways, so maybe its not so different. Your point about the eye of beholders absorb hurting PMs is exactly the sort of easy-to-miss detail thats critical to get right here. Maybe that item should just go to reg-deathblock, my own ideas on it were rather lackluster other than "changes needed", maybe going towards PMs that way instead of a DC route is better. I welcome more people to post well informed critiques. But focus on the items.... Critical now, so its correct later, thats the ticket.

I will do Armors and the Rune Arm later, as I need to get an Arty over.

And so I shall:

Epic Emerald Guard = FAIL. This should have 3/3 charges of Nightshield. The Mabar armors do, so its already out there, in the same slot, usable earlier. And one charge is easily dispelled in todays end game environment, having more than one makes this actually playable in epic as a reliable way to use the effect. Also... Haste guard? With Blinding Speed and Speed XI-X items all over, that seems rather marginal to say the least. Bear in mind this is competing with Shadow Guard armor, and right now it just doesnt. It seems to be targeted as a sort of "dps" heavy plate, more than a defensive set. Stick with what works, add Accuracy +10 as an update to the heroic one. There is Deadly X/XII on many items now, but accuracy is getting harder to find. And maybe add some Dodge. Like Dodge +10, so that further increases to max dex, playing off that, get immediately rewarded without having to combo in other items for the "light" heavy armor. +10 Atk, +10 Dodge, 50% Fort, 3 con, 3/3 nightshield, with the Nimbleness, thats something folks might opt for over Shadowscale. Persuasion and Haste guard wont be missed.

Epic Bastion of Fealty = FAIL. (this is based on the dev comment that the +spell and +insight stacking issue was an error to be corrected). Theres a few issues here. One, 3/3 charges of nightshield. The need for 3/day is a reality in the world of spam dispels and spam magic missiles that is epic. Two, the spell save, which they have already stated to be corrected. My comment would have been to fix the +1 spell save into something actually useful (a different type which stacks is one idea, just raising the +5 to +6 is another, or a different modifier like Spell Resistance 40-45 is another), so just assuming thats covered in some fashion and moving on. Three, its medium armor. I wish this was heavy so much. It could have been a set of plate people may swap in for some fights where elemental or spell effects are more pressing than physical concerns. I realize that better combinations of these exist, but take a great deal of effort to obtain and multiple item slots to cover. With the addition of MRR, it makes sense to have a suit of heavy armor which plays that direction and gets them in one shot. It may not see use as a main armor choice, but it will fill a lot of gaps as people adapt to the new system, and as a swap for some events, and with an effort to avoid flat mudflation sometimes branching out is better than climbing up. But its medium. I guess they have to add something for people still limited to medium armor, but that situation is narrowing as time goes on, and I feel this is going to get lost in the shuffle without being Heavy, where it would fit so well with the system changes. Worse yet, its metal, so while Fvs, Bbn, and perhaps Warchanters are covered... Druids are still not. Sigh. You coulda been a contenda.

Epic Scales of Surety = FAIL. Basically same things as for the plate version. Persuasion and Haste guard were cool back at level 15 or whatever, epic end game isnt that place. And again, 3/3 charges per day. Here, especially, doing something like attack and dodge would do well. I will give it props for being the only light armor with the 50% fort on it, that I can recall offhand at least, so its nice to see light armor guys getting access to that. Especially as the game marches on with more rogue mobs. Its perhaps better off than the plate version, as its competing with very different things, but again the two poor mods should be replaced with something that is meaningful for the wearer.

Epic Chain of Conviction = FAIL. (also assuming the spell/save stacking issue is corrected). Three minor issues, besides the covered stacking one. The ASF isnt properly reduced by the Mithril propety. It should be 5% not 15%. And the MDB isnt properly added, should be 12 not 10. And lastly, shockingly, the same 3/3 nightshield commentary. Fix those and this items great. It has all the beneficial comments the plate could have had, only being Light Armor it properly targets many of the light-armor-evasion types that can make use of them and dovetails with the new system. While the plate is somewhat of a loser over being medium, this is a winner in the same fashion. Just hate seeing sloppy stuff like the mithral mods not being actually applied. This happened back when the SubT came out, and took ages to get fixed and Im not even sure its right now. I hope this one gets caught in time, along with the uses getting bumped to 3/3 parallel mabar and befitting the actual game content the item will see use in. Great item otherwise, nice.

Knives Eternal = FAIL. This is actually a pretty cool and fun arm. Yes, the imbue is a little light, but with the amount this helps Force spells, I think thats fair. Its also more synergistic to get more piercing damage for a repeater than an element which can be more readily resisted, thats worth a few points difference I think. I like that the targeting is narrow enough to be used at varying range, but also spread a bit to aid against moving mobs or groups of mobs. Spike Guard is essentially flavor, but relevant enough that if it goes off its going to contribute, and fits well with my experience playing and seeing others play artys (which is, you move a lot to avoid hits but get hit because your abilities often put you in proximity to mobs). So why a "fail"? Well, the "Spiked" effect seems to be bugged... its only applying to melee from my testing. IE, not to the rune arm shot, not to your repeater, not to your spells. So its not "on damage", its "on melee attack". I hope thats not intentional, but even if it is Id be okay with it. Rune Arms were supposed to be helpful in melee too, theres even a Path around it. I suspect that, should arts get their third Enhancement tree, it will be a Melee focused one (to compliment the ranged and caster ones now). But I can see how many people would want it working with everything, as the ability describes. Me included, just if its not intended so be it. But either the effect needs fixed, or the label needs fixed. Post fix, great item. Looking forward to picking one up. Synergy and max level Force focuses are neat along with the unique and playable shot effect. Fun.

There you have it, again some very near misses but bugs prevented green text. Dont just focus on the pass/fail, a lot of them failed. Check out why and see. Theres a lot of good here, but it needs *attention to detail*. Get it cleaned up, done right, and looking proper, and this could be the pack that turbines itemization curse turns around. 3BC set the stage with some legit items among others which lacked... heres a chance to get an entire pack right. Dont let up now. GL devs. Hope the feedbacks helpful.

EDIT: to add one thing. Looking back, overall, a few glaring things stand out. One, No Non-Metal Armor/Shields. Hi, there are Druids around. What do? Two, will we be seeing updated version of the tome/shield of legends? If so, this may cover the druid shield but still no dice on armor. Three, Shroud Skills. Those +6 Exceptional Skill mods are pretty interesting for a lot of purposes. Yet, other than the odd item here or there regarding rogue skills, you never see them. Dont be afraid to put +6 Int skills on a caster item, to give Spellcraft. Or +6 Wisdom to aid with Spot and Healing. I can understand not wanting to repeat the Shroud hp/mana boosts (need to leave those items some appeal and its a lot of inflation... even False Life is left out this item run, +30/35 sapphires for everyone!)... but the skills boosts. Thats an area thats a bit ignored. If you have to go looking for ideas, thats a place to start. Just wanted to pin these comments in too after looking everything over. I hope the next pass has some improvements. Cheers.

EDIT2: because wanted to reply to this doing the armors and forgot:

As for the Armors, unlike Shadowscale, they aren't Raid Loot, and shouldn't necessarily be as strong as Shadowscale as a result.

Shadowscale isnt really raid loot either. I mean, the bits are from raids, but theyre tradeable, and unlike the weapons the armor is actually reasonably priced. It doesnt take an unearthly amount of effort to put together. If you guys are valuing (say) shadowscale and dumathoins bracers equally because both are "raid loot" well, youre doing it wrong. Let alone the sink that thunderforge T3 is. This new armor should be pretty comparable to the shadowscale, not better per se but not worse either. Not that its all got to be DR30 or +1 stacking DC or whatever. Just that it shouldnt be notches below either. I think my feedback above shows that, just making an effort to be on the same page.

[Portalcat]

How many times has some best in slot item immediately become totally pointless next update.

The problem with this logic is that that it's self-perpetuating: "In anticipation of future power creep, let's encourage as much power creep as we can every 3 months when new items come out."

I'd much rather that there be just a few items that help gearing on otherwise geared-out toons each update, and that there be an economy for excess gear, such that old content remains relevant for something other than zerging through on a TR/ER train. It shortens and cheapens the game if there's little reason to run anything but the latest update.

Your point about the eye of beholders absorb hurting PMs is exactly the sort of easy-to-miss detail thats critical to get right here.

I think that's a qualitatively different type of feedback though than nitpicking items that are otherwise very good to ask for more. I identified a point that makes an item flat-out unusable for one of the builds it seems to be aimed at, rather than asked for a buff to something I'd highly consider using anyway.

Unless I can answer with a solid Yes that its here clear and loud as a life sustaining end game option, why let it slide?

I can, for a lot of items. Perhaps a different approach is in order. These are the items that I 100% know I want to slot on my completely geared-out pale master DC caster:

-Epic Litany of the Dead: a strictly superior version of what I'm already running.
-Epic Deific Diadem: It has a stacking DC bonus and is a better way to slot Int +11 than currently exists. The other +11 stats and 2 slots are useful gravy.
-Epic Noxious Embers: FINALLY A GOOD WAY TO SLOT SPELL LORE OFF OF WEAPONS. If you don't want to take spell lore on TF weapons, you have horrible kludges as alternatives right now (and you'd want to not slot lore on weapons because TF staffs give a DC bonus and eternal chilling darkness/scorching light are really, really strong). I can drop the 2nd GS and Cannith crafted ring I currently need to run for this. Oh, and everything else on it is also really nice to have.
-Epic Circle of Malevolence: Several useful stats, 2 slots, an improved harm clicky.

I'm also tempted to use/swap the epic fanged gloves and epic inferno bracers if I can fit them in my updated gearing. I'd want the epic eye of the beholder if not for the negative absorption.


For a single update, even one with a new raid, that's a lot of gear turnover, and the gains are not small incremental ones either. It's only 4 new quests and a raid after all.




I can run the same exercise for my other toons and come to similar results, but by slotting different items. I will be running the new raid in particular a very large number of times across my characters.

[bbqzor]

The problem with this logic is that that it's self-perpetuating: "In anticipation of future power creep, let's encourage as much power creep as we can every 3 months when new items come out."

Hardly. Thats not the logic employed at all. Have you even read my feedbacks? Much of it is about removing mods which do nothing, or adding ones which fit better with the items... its hardly asking for more power creep. Maybe we see creep differently... theres little in this pack, raw stat wise, which reflects any creep. Only a very few things go up 1 point, or perhaps 2 in a special case like the sacred dc mod. Its more about easier access to existing combos. Which is exactly why, if its going to give those combos, give them. Dont short change people for choosing an alternate route to the mods.

I think that's a qualitatively different type of feedback though than nitpicking items that are otherwise very good to ask for more. I identified a point that makes an item flat-out unusable for one of the builds it seems to be aimed at, rather than asked for a buff to something I'd highly consider using anyway.

Feel free to point out which feedbacks you think fall into this category, which I did not already point out as exactly such. I am sure there are few, if any at all, which have no purpose other than "nitpicking" or "asking for more" without context showing why. Its not just grabbing at more in a vacuum.

These are the items that I 100% know I want to slot: -Epic Litany of the Dead: -Epic Deific Diadem: -Epic Noxious Embers:
-Epic Circle of Malevolence:

All four of which I passed. Most for the same reasons. They are good items which fill a needed role, often in a unique and appealing way.

Much of the rest dont. Eye of the Beholder? If you slot the above four (which you say, 100% know you will) why bother with this? Int wont stack, deathblock (sans the absorb part, were that to happen for the sake of example) is easily slotted many ways... 250 mana ring? Meh. You seeing something else there? Theres other things to do with your only free ring slot (after the epic circle on the other) than this thing. Even if it was "fixed". And thats my point. Good or not, in the grand scheme... whats the appeal? There kind of isnt one, that I see, other than as a swap for the absorb effect. So it should be adjusted. Thats my point.

For a single update, even one with a new raid, that's a lot of gear turnover, and the gains are not small incremental ones either.

Depends how you look at it. A lot of it *is* small increments, *if* you already had the top combos. This pack is about accessibility and opening options, not power creep. Which is why having an alternate way to get something, which is inferior to the first, isnt really an alternative is it. And thats only for the few items in that boat (mentaus etc). Others, like the Eye ring, offer little given the field of items to choose from now. Yet others, like Epic Chain of Conviction and the Rune Arm, have clear bugs. Cited as such.

I can run the same exercise for my other toons and come to similar results, but by slotting different items

*Some* good things arent a reason to not strive for *all* good things. I am tired of situations like 3BC where theres "mizzen mast" style items which effectively do nothing (ie, eye ring). Or situations like Halls where items get nerfed last minute because some effect doesnt work (magestar losing heal proc, parallel to dispelling guard not working or spiked not working). Or situations like *the giant shield pass promising new options, specifically citing druids as a concern, then giving no wooden shields*.

I pointedly state, much of this can be good with fixes. Some of the fixes are small. That doesnt mean its not important to see them go in, just because some other item is okay.

I can run the same exercise for my other toons and come to similar results, but by slotting different items. I will be running the new raid in particular a very large number of times across my characters.

Sure, theres things anyone can use. Especially from the raid. But unless every single item is appealing for a broad-ish range of reasons, and for a fair-ish length of time, it doesnt need to be on the table. Lets make this the first pack with no filler loot or compromised loot or garbage loot like shield of morning was where they cant be bothered to scale the enhancement bonus up from +3 even on the EE item. Theres just no reason for any of that to be around. Ever.

I can, have, and will agree that not everyone will have the same feedback on the items. Fine. Provide feedback about the items themselves or the comments on individual items, not someones style of approaching the topic. If you think things are fine or too good already or whatever, say so. Just writing off a post because you dont like the style helps no one. The devs arent reading to determine which style of writing they like the most. Its to find out information about the items. Focus on that, otherwise its just spinning wheels at each other for no reason.

When I see specifics about items, Ill reply to it. Otherwise, Im happy to agree to disagree. I think a draconian first draft after years of watching a half-done job is justified, and necessary to make the item guys see what the veteran players see. This is the first pass, its the best time to do so, when they have the most time to adjust. Its like telling your copy writer to bloody run spellcheck on the first draft. Waiting only hurts the quality of the future product. Thanks for taking the time to explain about those few items, I hope information on others follows. A lot of it I agree with, Noxious Embers crit chance, great example of something the game is in dire need for showing up. When people with differing opinions, as here, are both agreeing on points like that, its a good sign for those items. Maybe they can all get to that place. Cheers.

[JOTMON]

I like the look of all these Epic items especially because they have 2 augment slots, this is epic worthy gear.

A lot of items have given me that ooh ahh , gotta get this and that.....

Only thing I would look at is having all these items be min level 28.

Definitely inspiring me to want to run Epic Orchard repeatedly.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

epic mentaus goggles are great, especially for a pure fighter.
what i dont understand though is why it only has seeker 10 and exc seeker 2. already have 12 and 5 respectively, and im not in need of freeing up item slots to scarifice 5 total seeker just to use a different cloak and/or ring.
unless you are upgrading the seeker on them, please dont change this item.


epic boots of the innocent are perfect.


not being able to cleanse epic litany will be annoying for me, but interesting and i approve of that decision. however i have to ask, since any player with negative levels will now have a symbol over their head, will i constantly be having a dunce hat with epic litany equipped? or will items not cause that effect?


is epic quiver -50 concentration, or +5? if its -50 thats a pretty unusual effect which i can only assume is to prevent monkchers from being happy. +1.


a lot of the rest of this loot is uninspired in my opinion. some of its good but some of its just.. "whaaaaaat?"

[Silverleafeon]

is epic quiver -50 concentration, or +5? if its -50 thats a pretty unusual effect which i can only assume is to prevent monkchers from being happy. +1.

Its a level 28 items with a curse of -50 concentration which reduces it to min level 20 although there is no min level listed on the item atm.

Yes, it is unusual, no plans for the future but I would like to eventually see various curses introduced that would allow our toons to have items that is well above level 30 but reduced down to level 30 because of a curse of some sort. Since I assume loot will move on, but our level cap will be 30 in the next year or two and stay there.

[G_Lich]

Honestly, the rune arm is awesome. The range of hits is untyped. I noticed everything from 400 in damage to 3000 per hit. They're not AOE hits so no silly reflex saves.

Do not "Test" on CR 0.25 Kobolds... - You will not get those numbers in any place where it matters.

[G_Lich]

My "Real" thoughts on the runearm are on page one, but for an FYI, I'm staying away from 16+ artificer for a while now.

If the runearm SHOT is not GREAT - what is the point of running a high arti? It's definitely not the dog, and it's definitely not evocation saves. Give arti's some of this BS nonsense 100% boost to power, we don't get slayer/fury and since there's no ranged power yet (because fat ass monkchers are sitting on our side of the seesaw) ... The runearm is your last chance to make runearm artificer unfrustratingly playable until an Artificer pass.

Someone who says the shot is indeed GREAT, please enter EE, fire one volley into a single mob, and report back on your %HP reduction. Same goes for EH. Now add up damage numbers, divide by amount of time it takes to charge fully (factor in how often you'd prefer to be standing still in a quest on a squishy as wet turds caster with bad saves unless splashing) and get your DPS, now go to any other specialist+ build and see how much DPS 30 AP can buy you, and also notice that the last 40% of that DPS doesn't require you to stand still.

...

PS - arti's move exactly as fast as all mobs do now... kiting is not possible on non-monk, non-bard, non-ranger (sprintboost)

[jwelch]

So far as I know, Paladins indeed are the only class required to be Good.

The fact that other classes may choose to be Good misses the point; Paladin's can't choose not to be Good.

and Monks can't be anything but lawful, which makes a whole host of chaotic items either unusable, or problem-causing for them.

Should DDO stop making items that cause Monks problems because of that? No, that would be silly.

Monk weapon and armor choices are highly limited. Should they stop making items monks can't use? Or druids?

That would also be silly.

Barbarians can't be lawful. Ban lawful weapons and redo PoP so they aren't inconvenienced by the Daanvi cell.

Some classes have limitations that are a pain in the tuchas. That's always been a part of D&D, regardless of how and where you play.

[Silverleafeon]

Rerolled into a pure pally thanks to a +20 heart, put on the Epic Litany of the dead, along with other new gear to test it out.

Finished up everything but hotbars, then looked at the negative level from the Litany.
Looked at character sheet.
Removed Litany.
Looked at character sheet.
Put Litany back on and looked at character sheet.

Decide to leave litany on for however long she is a lamania pally...nuff said...

[Aelonwy]

and Monks can't be anything but lawful, which makes a whole host of chaotic items either unusable, or problem-causing for them.
Should DDO stop making items that cause Monks problems because of that? No, that would be silly.
Monk weapon and armor choices are highly limited. Should they stop making items monks can't use? Or druids?
That would also be silly.
Barbarians can't be lawful. Ban lawful weapons and redo PoP so they aren't inconvenienced by the Daanvi cell.
Some classes have limitations that are a pain in the tuchas. That's always been a part of D&D, regardless of how and where you play.

Not that I don't agree with you to a certain extent, because I do, alignment is part of the pros/cons of class choice, but perhaps its simply more of an issue for paladins because both portions of their alignment are set in stone. Paladin = Lawful Good. Nothing else. The other classes you mentioned have a little choice, (less because DDO unlike PnP does not allow evil alignment) but Barbarians and bards can choose to be chaotic good/chaotic neutral/true neutral/neutral good , Druids can be any form of neutral yes? and Monks could be Lawful good or lawful neutral. Paladins have zero choice of alignment so a few more issues on that front. Honestly, I don't see why giving some method for removing taint of evil wouldn't be a great idea. It could be another raid item that drops and is used ingredient like, it could be an augment, it could be an item you can purchase with COVs or Tapestries. The reasons for not making a method to remove it?

[slarden]

There are +11 resistance items available so I think items with just a certain type of non-stacking save like reflex or will should be +13 at this level. Or alternatively make it +3 insightful or exceptional bonus to that save type.

In the madness chain you could craft +10 to a specific save on a level 15 item so I don't think an additional +3 for level 27 is unreasonable.

Anyhow considering resistance 11 is available on some of this loot, will save +10 and reflex save +10 which doesn't stack with a resistance item is kind of disappointing.

[-Avalon-]

is there an upgraded version of the shroud of abbot robe?, granted we killed him. but since vol is a lich, theres no reason why she wouldnt have some type of robe similiar to that to drop, perhaps one that has boon of undeath (perhaps a greater version that is a moderate inflict wounds since this is lvl 28), light resistance, and perhaps more PM goodness,

no epic shroud of the abbot ? Haven't seen it, if someone can answer me, tyvm

edit: I missed an earlier post, looks like no shroud of abbot, for good reasons i guess.

I would like to add my vote for this as well... Where is the upgraded Epic version of the Shroud of the Abbot? There are only 3 items with boon of undeath out there: Epic Robe of Shadow, Epic Docent of Shadow, and Shroud of the Abbot. The first 2 require being around and grinding out Mabar, and even then aren't worth using at lvl 28, and the third is only good at low levels (which is less than useful now since a lot of people only TR into Iconics anymore, and are back past 20 in less than a day, maybe 2)

We need an upgrade to this item, and since Shroud comes from Necro 4, it only makes sense to have the upgrade come from there as well. And this time around, maybe have a docent that is equal to it? Just a thought lol...

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The other item I didn't see yet, but would be really cool if they did something with it: Atonement. It has the perfect name, the perfect look, etc... it IS the paladin's holy sword if they chose to make it as such. Just thinking it would fit perfectly in this update since they are doing so much with Paladins in it anyways...

[patang01]

Here's a list of items I suggest a change to. The changes will only make these items slightly more unique. This does not include the shields. I don't have much to say about those and the armor. The armor needs an overhaul. I just don't think anyone will use them - they add nothing that shadow scale or Dragon TOR scale armor doesn't already cover (and more uniquely).

Epic Purging the Pantheon – Belt – BtC - ML 28

For a raid item this seems little weak. Maybe increasing Fire and light absorb to 15 or 20, because you can get that at level 20 and fortification isn't really the selling point. Also consider adding +45 fire and light resist. provide a good reason to use these. At 10% it'll be situational and I just don't this belt compete well with other items out there.

Shroud of Ardent – Necklace – BtC - ML 28

I like items with healing amp, but the neck slot has a lot of other much better gear options. My suggestion is to sharpen the stick on this one. Remove armor bonus and sheltering. There's tons of items with that. Up the smoke screen to lesser displacement since there's only one other item that has it. And up the heal amp to 40%. That would make this a unique item, worthy of slotting. Also, it's possible that you could instead make the heal amp profane +10% so it stacks with other +10 items. There are ways of making it an intersting combination.

Epic Noxious Embers – Necklace – BtC - ML 28

Is it possible to do something better with the clicky? It is a level 28 item and there should be a significant difference in power, even for the clicky's. The item itself is nice. But I suggest adding Enlarge II, Maximize II and Empower II. Adding some features that makes it feel significantly more powerful. Keep in mind that very few use enlarge at all. Also maybe make something more interesting with the clicky. Something that adds a good interesting benefit. 6 seconds of 'free' maximize means nothing really. Please make this item slightly better.

Knives Eternal – Rune Arm – BtC - ML 27

I suggest increasing the fire speed of the knives. I like this rune arm, but it still suffers from reflex save issues (that's rune arms in general tho). But snappier fier speed of knives makes sense. They're not slow bolts. Is it all possible to make the augment slots red or purple? I don't know what the general issue here but that would make this rune arm a lot more unique.

Ring of unknown Origins – Rune Arm – BtA - ML 27

This item is not good. I know it makes wearers immune to natural poisons and diseases but that's generally not the issue in higher end epics. I'm going to be honest here - this won't be used much at all. Maybe situationally in few quests where there's a significant amount of air ellies, but otherwise it won't. Make it an all immunity item. It's still only going to be used situationally but probably a lot more then almost never.

Mythic Muffled Veneer – Helm – BtA - ML 27

+20 items are nice, but the reality is that you can even find +20 at level 20. This one doesn't scale well with that. Assassination +4 is nice but the reflex save is redundant. Make it +5 profane instead. There's TONS of +10 resist items and you can even buy or get a +8 resist augment that's better. Making it profane or stackable makes this feature unique. And that should be the desire, aspecially with Mythic items.

Epic Seraphim – Helm – BtA - ML 27

Please consider adding profane stacking features instead of Sacred, Hallowed and Insightful. You need something that heighten the use, not just collects all the different features at date. And please add lore. There are a lot of better helmets out there with lower ML and perhaps the best thing to do with high ML items is to consolidate gear slots to add a good reason to replace better lower ML items.


Epic Inferno bracers – bracers – BtA - ML 27

This needs Fire lore. It wouldn't make it that OP (drop superior fire lore if that's a bridge to far) and at best you'll have a good item for consolidating fire lore/spell power and constitution.

Epic Chord of reprisal – Belt – BtA - ML 27

Please drop Sheltering al together. There are a lot of better items and you can even get a +16 sheltering augment at this point. Add Sonic lore instead.

Epic Glimpse of the soul – goggles – BtA - ML 27

Please make the saves profane. +4 or 5. Make these stack so people see a use of it outside fighting quells.

Epic Emerald Gaze – Helm – BtA - ML 27

Please remove fearsome and make it profane +5 Will save. make it stack with resistance items/augments. Fearsome is just annoying. If anything add a feature where they're shaken instead. That'll add some negative bonuses to enemy critters without having them run away from you - that's just annoying.

Epic Locus of Vol – Necklace – BtA - ML 27

Please remove fearsome and change it to a feature that adds shaken instead. Please remove exhaustion from the blood rage feature. It's terrible. I just can't imagine anyone using this item at all as they'd be running around constantly exhausted.

BTW - I like the idea of Mythic items. Please keep it up and make that for EH and EE runs only.

[Bladedge]

Pro
No weapons seeing how there was 2 raids with build your weapons.
Overall Good loot
Bound to Account items
Raid items are still BoA

Cons:
No Docent
No Robes
No Augments
No epic version of all shields
Lack of +20 Search item that is not a trinket
Bound to Account items as they cant be sold or traded after acquired

Epic Tapestry Shreds and Masterwork Tapestry Shreds
Could use a name change to Tapestry of Vol from the one acquired from the raid Tapestry of Vol and Tapestry of the Orchard fro those acquired from the explorer area

Epic Litany of the Dead
Like the use of Taint of Evil. Game could use more items with negative effects or curses.
Could use Taint of Chaos or Taint of Neutral to effect Lawful align characters like monks who have to be Lawful.

Epic Ring of Unknown Origins
One of the weakest item
Proof Against /Disease Poison, Immunity to fear, Blindness Immunity can be gain from augments.
There are better rings out there to use. And items with augment slots to obtain the above.
Whirlwind ward just makes this a swap item.

Epic Cloak of Ice
A new option for the cloak slot And it doesn't require one to click on it like the current heroic version.

Epic Inferno Bracers
Great for fire based casters

Epic Chord of Reprisals
Roar - Is it even useful in epic content. An improved version maybe

Epic Emerald Gaze
Fearsome - With DC ~17? it most likely to low to even be useful in epic content. Maybe Greater Feasome or another mutation entirely.

Epic Locus of Vol
Fearsome - see Epic Emerald Gaze
Blood Rage - Really why and why the heroic version and not epic version

Armor:
2 using old textured
2 new textures, Epic Emerald Guard had to have the ugly oversize gear set.

The descriptions for Exceptional Fortification, Greater Nimbleness and Mithral should be shorten and get to the point of what the mutations do with without the wall of text fluff. One of them doesnt even fit on the screen and the other bearly do.

Why Greater Nimbleness and not Superior Nimbleness or Epic Nimbleness
Nightshield clicky could get bump to 3 charges a day or add an upgrade ability to make it 3 charges a day.

[Violith]

Epic Cloak of Ice
A new option for the cloak slot And it doesn't require one to click on it like the current heroic version.

the heroic version doesnt require you to click, the old one used to have 3 charges of ice shield clicky, but that was changed awhile ago in u17. current one is (fire sheild (ice) guard with a 10% chance, and a yellow and colourless augment slots).