U23 Items Feedback thread

[archerforever]

Just one thing ... if there is no an Epic Unwavering Ardency with a GREAT skin, it will be an EPIC FAIL !!! No money for you and i ll leave the game

[Sokól]

Just one thing ... if there is no an Epic Unwavering Ardency with a GREAT skin, it will be an EPIC FAIL !!! No money for you and i ll leave the game

1 of my favorite weapons, I will not be so dramatic but that bow will be a huge addition to the raid if you can add it but I understand if you do not want TF weapons to be become absolete.

[nolifer1]

i understun little, now after thunderforged weapons they dont want meybe make it outdated too fast, but Unwavering Ardency shold be on table, it just one bow , dont have to even make beat thunderforged, so many options, like make bow immune to damage anyting thats not undead and make it uber vs undead bow, just 1 exampe, its too nice item to remove it from list

[Madja]

While I won't be using some of these items because of their ML:28 (They seem kinda pointless, as I can't find any reason to stay at level 28), I am a bit disappointed that there aren't really any undead themed effects.

Things like Vampirism, Incorporeal, Negative Healing Amplification and Boon of Undeath.
I would also have loved to see an item with 10% or 20% Healing Amplification instead of 30%. We already have four epic items with 30%, but only two with 20% and none with 10%. These are effects that remain useful at all levels.


Overall though, the items look nice. There's atleast three or four items that I would be using

[TPICKRELL]

... 10% or 20% Healing Amplification instead of 30%...

If the Shroud of Ardent had 10% AND 20%(effectively 32% amp) healing amp instead of 30% it would vault up to be one of the must have items. It's just not right that the best healing amp item in the game is still Dragon Touched armor.

[SirValentine]

If you consider the lore of the area, it is purely evil...everything about it is evil. So, why wouldn't the items created there have a taint of evil? It might suck that as a Paladin, you can't use such item, but hey, you are a Paladin...you're LAWFUL GOOD...you should want to use items created of such evil.

Were I a Paladin, I would not want to destroy Evil; I'd want to redeem it!

[Wizza]

Items feedback thread: not a single reply on any of the feedback was given. Many items are still bad. Can we expect changes in this round 2? If so, which items?

[Steelstar]

Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to write up item feedback! We've read through the entire thread up to this point, and will hopefully have some more replies up soon.

For round two of Lamannia, not too many adjustments outside of bugfixes; this isn't due to a lack of feedback, just a focus on finishing other features for Round 2.

[thegreatfox]

When I saw those goggles with the +4 insightful strength I was really hoping something would have +4 insightful charisma. Would help free up one of my slots for something better

[Wizza]

Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to write up item feedback! We've read through the entire thread up to this point, and will hopefully have some more replies up soon.

For round two of Lamannia, not too many adjustments outside of bugfixes; this isn't due to a lack of feedback, just a focus on finishing other features for Round 2.

The reply you linked is mostly a technical explanation of how Mythic works and the stacking question of Insightful. My snarky (not that much, just kidding) comment was more directed to have something like "Oh, THIS item is bad, we agree with you, we are going to change X Y Z" kind of replies.

Hope to see more replies and adjuments in round three.

[patang01]

Thanks to those of you who have taken the time to write up item feedback! We've read through the entire thread up to this point, and will hopefully have some more replies up soon.

For round two of Lamannia, not too many adjustments outside of bugfixes; this isn't due to a lack of feedback, just a focus on finishing other features for Round 2.

Thanks for letting us know. Hopefully there will be some adjustments in the future to make all the items worthy of collecting.

[Steelstar]

Oh, and is there a quest chain that can have the epic version of the items on its end reward list?

Yes, though it may not be up on Lamannia yet in round 2.

That Mythic Muffled Veneer is REALLY underwhelming for a mythic item.

I believe this is the first non-Raid item to have Assassination +4. Sounds like most of the properties you mentioned (the skill boosts) come from the Epic version, which in turn are upgraded versions of the Heroic version's effects. This is one of the items where we stuck somewhat close to what the Heroic one did; if there's a strong desire for that to change, we can probably do that.

I would add Deception to the Muffled Veneer, make it THE helm for stealthy, sneak attack builds. The Dragon Masque has it, oddly.

It would make for a nice helm, but it would also make the two items very similar, especially since they're in the same slot.

1. Please give something Doubleshot (quiver would be best, but other items could work)

2. The Rune Arm does less damage from Imbue's than both Tovens Hammer (lvl 20) and Glass Cannon (lvl 24) so for anyone using rune arms primarily for the imbues, this isn't terribly attractive. Can you bump it up? Maybe give it Heartseeker on crits to xbows/thrown weapons?

4. WIth the On Damage 10% Spike Damage actually work for thrown/ranged? It does not on the Battleragers Harness Currently, which makes it make no sense on a Rune Arm, which is used with Ranged/Thrown items primarily.

Thanks!

1. We can certainly look into that, at least.
2. It should do less imbue than the Glass Cannon, which does more imbue damage than any other Rune Arm at the cost of -25% Fortification. As for Toven's Hammer, that does 2-16 per hit while Knives Eternal does 2-20. We'll investigate if it should be higher.
4. The effect on Knives Eternal is the same one as is on the Harness, so it would theoretically act the same. If it's not working for Ranged weapons, please file a bug and let us know which weapon(s) you tried it with, thanks.

I missed the Blood Rage item - this a bad bad thing! Blood Rage procs prevent usage of abilities the same way Barbarian Rage and Madstone Rage do, this proc is a death sentence to self healers - please replace with something less self-harmful, or better yet fix the proc to be purely beneficial (keeping the Exhaustion effect on Blood Rage expiration is ok) and work like the Rage spell so as not to prevent casting and such - and then while you're fixing it, get rid of the reduced attack speed. When damage output is measured in /second, anything that slows your attack speed is undesirable.

My level 18 Bladeforged Fighter nearly died in the Vale wilderness (a wilderness!) because of wearing the Scourge Choker necklace with this effect. I don't mind dying when it's my fault, but dying because my own gear prevents me from using my racial enhancement healing - not ok.

The Strength and Constitution bonuses of Blood Rage stack with everything - If your character's built in a way that relies on Self-Healing via Magic (yes, we know that's a lot of characters at this point), this is probably not the best item for that character.

We may make some adjustments to the effects of Blood Rage, but the prevention of spellcasting while under the effect is likely to stay.

At first glance, the items look pretty good to me.

The one thing I would say is that the Epic Boots of the Innocent are over the top. Having +12 to every tactical ability, +11 resistance, Speed XV (30% movement, 15% attack), and permanent GH on the same item is too much. Right now it's like 2-3 items combined into one. 1-2 abilities could be removed and it would still be great. Keep all the tactical abilities on the item but consider removing Resistance and/or Speed.

Kudos on double slotting all the items.

A few people mentioned the Boots as perhaps being a bit overpowered. We may shuffle a few of its effects around with other items.

MYTHIC SERAPHIM:

Sacred and Hallowed are redundant with Eternal faith

We'll look into this, thanks.

Okay I played a little bit more in epic orchard and noticed something you get 2 epic taps per rare encounter or quest complete but you need 120 for a normal augment or 120 master taps for a orange/purple/green augment slot. I have not seen a single master tap guessing they drop in raid. Got to say you got to be insane if you think running 60 quests or killing 60 rares in explorer for 1 augment slot. Especially when everyone will want multiple items from expansion with 2 slots each your talking hundreds of runs just to put augment slots on items.

Rare Encounters in the landscape drop ~2 Epic Tapestry pieces, sure, but the End Chests for the quest drop significantly more, especially on higher difficulties.
Masterwork Tapestry Shreds drop exclusively from the Raid, yes.

Here is my review.

(First off, thanks to you and everyone else who did a full item-by-item breakdown; we really like that!)

Sanctified Gages – Gloves – BtC - ML 28
UMD +5
Scorching sun: 2d6 light damage on hit with a weapon (does it scale with Melee power?)

Unlikely, at least for now (same with other proc effects listed in your post).

Epic Purging the Pantheon – Belt – BtC - ML 28
Improved quelling strike
Fortification 150%
Protection +10
Fire absorption 10%
Light Absorption 10%
Upgradeable Primary: Yellow or Blue slot
Upgradeable Primary: Green slot

This item is weak for a ML28 raid item. The only redemption I could see with the item is Improved Quelling strike, and only if the raid basically makes it mandatory to have it to achieve EE completion.
Suggestion: Well item needs a major revamp…

It's the first 150% Fort item, and grants the ability to shut down spellcasters, which hasn't been done much on items. Were there specific aspects of it that made it seem weak to you?

Shroud of Ardent – Necklace – BtC - ML 28
Well this is just healing amp 30%, 2 slots, and a mix of sucky bonuses.
It is not a completely dismissed item for the simple reason that new sources of healing amp are always nice to get, but it seems very underwhelming otherwise.
Note that this is a ML28 raid loot giving less sheltering than a ML19 guaranteed end reward!
Suggestion: Increase Sheltering to 24.

The Sheltering may be a bit low, we'll investigate that. That said, it may be the only Neck-slot item with Healing Amp.

Circle of Malevolence – Ring – BtC - ML 28
5 PRR is weak on a tank, but 5MRR will probably be more useful.

Most Sheltering effects now include both PRR and MRR, this one included.

Ring of unknown Origins – Ring – BtA - ML 27
Proof against poison 8
Proof against disease 8
Immunity to fear
Immunity to blindness
Whirlwind ward
Upgradeable Primary: Yellow or Blue slot
Upgradeable Primary: Green slot

VERY weak item.
I don’t know how well whirlwind ward works today. If it works well, then it would be a swap against air elementals period.
Anyone would rather take a ring with some useful bonuses, and slot immunities with augments, rather than do the opposite.

It's very utilitarian. This was an interesting one to bring into Epics, as the Heroic version wasn't a whole lot better in terms of the issues you state here; the direction we went was "As many immunities as could work on one item". It may be best as a swap item for some people, and that's probably fine. If any of you have suggestions about how to improve this item while keeping the spirit of the Heroic one, we're all ears!

Epic Mentaus goggles – Goggle – BtA - ML 27
Seeker +10
Exceptional seeker +2
Ghostly
UMD +5
Insightful Strength +4
Strength +11
Upgradeable Primary: Yellow or Blue slot
Upgradeable Primary: Green slot

Oh My God!
How is this not a raid item? This is just instant slot for so many builds…
GREAT item.

This is the other item that many seemed to think was overpowered; it's likely to be toned down a bit, or swap an effect or two with other items.

More to come, just wanted to split this into multiple posts.

[Steelstar]

Epic ring of Unknown origins- crappy since I can slot all those in with augements before I even hit 20.

Well, this ought to open up around five Augment slots then, plus the two this Ring can have. Slot consolidation!
As said above, if you have ideas about how to keep the spirit of this item while improving it, please let us know here.

The deathblock 6 on the epic eye of the beholder really limits it, because the 18% absorption makes it unusable on a pale master. Given that it's an int +11 wizardry 10 item, it seems like it's meant to be useful to int-based casters, but the a huge subset of them can't use this.

To paraphrase from earlier:

And not every item needs to work well for every character.

There are INT-based casters who are not Pale Masters, and those can definitely use the absorption.

You are aware that Mithral reduces the PRR and thus MRR of armor right?

The Mithral property is planned to be removed from these armors. This may be present in Round 2 of Lamannia, not sure.

Epic Emerald Guard = FAIL. This should have 3/3 charges of Nightshield. The Mabar armors do, so its already out there, in the same slot, usable earlier.

The Mabar armors' version has a much lower caster level.

Thanks again for all the feedback; there's a lot of useful information here.

We've still got our eyes on this thread, so please keep checking out the items on Lamannia during Round 2!

[Wizza]

Okay, you like item-by-item breakdown. I like this reply-by-reply breakdown

I believe this is the first non-Raid item to have Assassination +4. Sounds like most of the properties you mentioned (the skill boosts) come from the Epic version, which in turn are upgraded versions of the Heroic version's effects. This is one of the items where we stuck somewhat close to what the Heroic one did; if there's a strong desire for that to change, we can probably do that.

Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying that this MYTHIC item comes from a quest and not the raid? I thought Mythic items were Raid loot only.

On the item itself: I noticed that the skills are upgraded from the heroic version. However, and I'm being totally honest, you may want Assassination +4 on ALL the time, while the other bonuses are SELDOMLY used and when doing so, you use a swap item. I would get rid of Skill bonuses on this helm and give them more Roguey stuff, examples:

Intelligence. Would couple togheter with Assassination VERY nicely. Very few +11 Int items for Rogue in this pack (or noone shall I say): Deific Diadem is a caster item, Epic Eye of the Beholder is not so good for Rogues. Either +11 Intelligence OR +3 Insightful Int (I might even go as far as +4 Insightful int) would be exceptionally (pun intended) good on this item.

Then I would add Improved Deception that would be a great addition (but that would make it similar to Dragon Masque) or, and this is my favorite, Doublestrike 12-15%, which would be awesome for Rogues and not only. But Intelligence should definetely come on this Helm.

Side note, since I noticed you mentioning to shuffle Epic boots of innocents abilities: Tendon Slice would be a niche ability to slot on this item on top of Intelligence and Doublestrike.

Keep in mind that, to wear this item, we are either losing the set from the Flawless Black dragonscale + Helm which is huge, or we are giving up the Dragon Masque.

[Steelstar]

Okay, I'm confused. Are you saying that this MYTHIC item comes from a quest and not the raid? I thought Mythic items were Raid loot only.

Yes, the four Mythic Helms are Quest loot. Typically, Mythic versions of items will drop in the same locations as their non-Mythic counterparts (in this case, the quests).

As for the rest of the post: Good ideas, noted. We'll investigate adjusting the Veneer.

[Wizza]

Yes, the four Mythic Helms are Quest loot. Typically, Mythic versions of items will drop in the same locations as their non-Mythic counterparts (in this case, the quests).

As for the rest of the post: Good ideas, noted.

Okay, thanks. Waiting for Lamannia to go up to check the other 2 Mythic Helms as we've only seen Minos and Muffed.

[Alternative]

There are INT-based casters who are not Pale Masters, and those can definitely use the absorption.

the int based casters who are not pale masters are shiradi WF/BF and don't care about DCs

people who care about DC are either drow or sunelf, and thus they go pale master for self healing

unless it's meant to be a ring for artificers, that's another story

my idea is to put 11 wis on the eye of the beholder and 11 int on fanged gloves, would make tons more sense

[FuzzyDuck81]

The Strength and Constitution bonuses of Blood Rage stack with everything - If your character's built in a way that relies on Self-Healing via Magic (yes, we know that's a lot of characters at this point), this is probably not the best item for that character.

We may make some adjustments to the effects of Blood Rage, but the prevention of spellcasting while under the effect is likely to stay.

Maybe make it have a debuff instead, similar to the one from Tensers Transformation? "Your spellcasting ability is reduced, resulting in a -2 penalty to all spell DCs, -2 to your rolls to bypass enemy Spell Resistance, and doubling the cooldown of your spells." That way the rage could still be something to watch out for (double cooldown basically prevents stacking DoTs for example), but not debilitatingly bad for a large number of players. If it stacked with tensers (and the one for druid while shapeshifted) that'd make it even more of a trade-off item for self-healers, while not crippling them completely as total spellcasting prevention would.

[Loromir]

It's very utilitarian. This was an interesting one to bring into Epics, as the Heroic version wasn't a whole lot better in terms of the issues you state here; the direction we went was "As many immunities as could work on one item". It may be best as a swap item for some people, and that's probably fine. If any of you have suggestions about how to improve this item while keeping the spirit of the Heroic one, we're all ears!

...Ring of Unknown origins.

Replace Whirlwind Guard with maybe Freedom of Movement. Another suggestion that would immediately add viability to that item....remove whirlwind guard, the yellow slot and the green slot and add a purple and orange slot (I know...shades of red slots don't belong on rings). Reduce the drop rate. This ring would get farmed for.

[patang01]

The Strength and Constitution bonuses of Blood Rage stack with everything - If your character's built in a way that relies on Self-Healing via Magic (yes, we know that's a lot of characters at this point), this is probably not the best item for that character.

We may make some adjustments to the effects of Blood Rage, but the prevention of spellcasting while under the effect is likely to stay.

The greatest issue is the constant exhaustion. It's just a terrible effect for epic play.

A few people mentioned the Boots as perhaps being a bit overpowered. We may shuffle a few of its effects around with other items.

Please don't. If you're going to move some effects to other pieces it's a point less item to even look for. Gearing is a premium at cap - trying to fit in 2-3 pieces just for some effects is terrible. Either leave it as is with some minor adjustments or you're going to make another item which won't be used at all. I like the idea of an item that boosts the tactical feats. But hacked up it's another mediocre product that either collect dust or sold for plat. Seriously.

Rare Encounters in the landscape drop ~2 Epic Tapestry pieces, sure, but the End Chests for the quest drop significantly more, especially on higher difficulties.
Masterwork Tapestry Shreds drop exclusively from the Raid, yes.

Drop rate seems fine to me, about 20-25 a whole run with I think 20 something for a quest. You could potentially unlock tier 1 in a full run with quests. Hopefully the masterwork tapestries drop in the 20's or so and not 10's. Unlocking tier 2 on something should take perhaps 3-4 completed raids (5 at the most). If it takes 10-15 times it's borderline silly.

It's very utilitarian. This was an interesting one to bring into Epics, as the Heroic version wasn't a whole lot better in terms of the issues you state here; the direction we went was "As many immunities as could work on one item". It may be best as a swap item for some people, and that's probably fine. If any of you have suggestions about how to improve this item while keeping the spirit of the Heroic one, we're all ears!

Make it ALL immunity. As currently it won't be used. The only useful immunities on it can be had as augments. As far as a swap item it's not worth the inventory slot.

This is the other item that many seemed to think was overpowered; it's likely to be toned down a bit, or swap an effect or two with other items.

And if you split it up to much it won't be used at all. As with the boots; the main benefit is that it consolidates gear slots. I rather you toned down some features (but leave it as a strength item as is) - like removing the seeker part but keep the insighful seeker. If you end up removing some of the premier features and put them elsewhere you're making several weaker items and people simply keep their gear. Consolidated items are great. Split up and in weird item slot already with other good gear makes the item another item for the dust bin or the vendor.