Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[Nayus]

Who runs around in circles waiting for a cleave? It sounds to me like you play with bad players.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp7qecrqLgg

He always does that, I chose that video because Breaking the Ranks is easy on the eyes. It's the same strategy he used for EE WGU and everything else.

DDO should encourage melee players to melee, and not kite like a sorc.

[maddong]

I like the current proposal except for the blitz mechanic changing (need to nerf it more if it is easy to maintain).

I'd say a big problem with the old mechanic is how much stronger blitz is when you solo (combined with dungeon scaling making it easier). That is bad for a group based game.

[Levonestral]

What if we keep Sev's current design of 70 MP base and 100 additional for blitz, then for those who enjoy getting bonuses for killing stuff quickly, give us back the lost amount (or some of it) for killing blows.

So basically, you'd have your 100 from blitz, but be able to gain additional "even shorter term" stacks that follow the exact pattern we see on live now. Thus, they'll only last for a few seconds each, give maybe 10MP each, max 5 stacks (thus pushing up to 150 for fully maxed out blitz), but then they'll decay back like we see now, putting a blitz back to 100 when they run out of things to kill and then have those decay however Sev has that envisioned now.

This would give incentive to want to keep killing for the "fun of the kill", give us back the "nerfed" dps, but still not truely get in the way of everyone else trying to also get kills for their "fun factor".

This would let us continue to solo and enjoy the (almost) full benefits of what we have live now, but also not make it entirely annoying to maintain blitz when in large groups?

Also, I still think all other ED's should be higher than 70, I really liked the idea of 150 each as a base. Perhaps consider raising the "base" for all other ED's except Dreadnaught to give them more incentive to be played ? Making Dreadnaught the exception to the rule; perhaps give their cores less increase as compared to all other EDs, leaving it at 70-100.

Combined with what I have above, I think things might have a better overall feel.

[Krelar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp7qecrqLgg

He always does that, I chose that video because Breaking the Ranks is easy on the eyes. It's the same strategy he used for EE WGU and everything else.

DDO should encourage melee players to melee, and not kite like a sorc.

Maybe you need to watch the video at full screen to see what he's actually doing?

I see him jump out to heal or recast clickys otherwise he's usually right in the thick of things and certainly isn't "waiting" for cleave or anything.

[maddmatt70]

Exactly -- I think that is the point - balancing all the characters again. Blitz takes some skill and timing. I think it is good that not everything is an easy button. I would like to see similar things in the other trees.

Blitz does not take much skill and timing. Why are you deluding yourself? It is easy pretty easy to make work of course 6 people in a quest blitzing is difficult because quests are designed for only 1-2 blitzers at once. It is not party friendly which is something that I can not stress enough. Somebody already was talking about how EIN is nice well EIN is not nice with blitz nor is implosion, or assasinate, or coup, or wail or any insta kill.

What Blitz reminds me of is the old puncturing effect on weapons. It took the devs three years to nerf puncturing and people become used to it and made builds based around it, but it was a beneficial change to the game despite the short term pain some people felt when the devs got around to nerfing puncturing. Blitz is not party friendly and is the only effective melee destiny currently both of which make the game less fun. If the devs are hell bent on keeping blitz what they should do is make the legendary dreadnaught destiny one of the weaker destinies - let these fringe players have their blitz.

DDO is about DPS that is just the way the game is. Give shadowdancer and primal avatar big buffs. Legendary dreadnaught is a tactical based destiny (cc oriented) in reality. Primal and Shadowdancer should be centered around dps and should provide more dps then Legendary Dreadnaught.

[Takllin]

Blitz does not take much skill and timing. Why are you deluding yourself? It is easy pretty easy to make work of course 6 people in a quest blitzing is difficult because quests are designed for only 1-2 blitzers at once. It is not party friendly which is something that I can not stress enough. Somebody already was talking about how EIN is nice well EIN is not nice with blitz nor is implosion, or assasinate, or coup, or wail or any insta kill.

What Blitz reminds me of is the old puncturing effect on weapons. It took the devs three years to nerf puncturing and people become used to it and made builds based around it, but it was a beneficial change to the game despite the short term pain some people felt when the devs got around to nerfing puncturing. Blitz is not party friendly and is the only effective melee destiny currently both of which make the game less fun. If the devs are hell bent on keeping blitz what they should do is make the legendary dreadnaught destiny one of the weaker destinies - let these fringe players have their blitz.

DDO is about DPS that is just the way the game is. Give shadowdancer and primal avatar big buffs. Legendary dreadnaught is a tactical based destiny (cc oriented) in reality. Primal and Shadowdancer should be centered around dps and should provide more dps then Legendary Dreadnaught.

Are you serious? Maybe if the other 5 players in your group do not do much DPS it is easy to maintain, but if your all on equal levels, or you do less DPS than the other party members, then Blitz is very hard to keep up throughout a quest.

Blitz is all about timing and skill. You hit it too early, or don't kill something before the timer goes off, then you lose it until the CD is gone. Just because you activate Blitz does not mean that you automatically get to 10 charges and blaze through the quest. The players that I play with, it is not easy to keep a full stack of Blitz up, and rather easy to lose the whole thing. This is a sentiment that is shared by those who I run with as well.

[Scrabbler]

~ Using Melee Power to scale epic characters.

The core conceptual problem with Epic Melee Power:

• By advancing through heroic and epic levels, casters will smoothly increase their passive Spellpower.
• There is no increase to Meleepower for warriors advancing through heroic levels.

If Meleepower is needed to help melee characters scale up with casters, why isn't it needed in heroic too? If the problem is casters getting too much spellpower in epic, then instead they could nerf epic spellpower and monster hitpoints.


PS. I strongly predict that once the devs get around to looking at it, Barbarian will gain passive Meleepower through levels and AP.

[OverlordOfRats]

Hi,

I'm just going to reiterate my earlier request that Shiradi cores be included in the melee power buff. The arguments for doing this are below.

It should remain a viable choice for melee/ranged hybrids, because other martial and primal destinies are. Don't force hybrids into fewer ED choices than we currently have now. There is no reason shiradi should be seen as a ranged only, or caster and ranged only ED, when other EDs add power to both melee and ranged styles.

The shiradi destiny is not so strong for ranged combat that adding a modest 'keeping pace' increase in melee DPS will change its melee or overall DPS standing relative to the other destinies. It's just a matter of remaining competitive, which appears to be one of your design goals.

At the moment, the destiny offers no DPS abilities for melee. It will be falling further behind other destinies as the result of these changes, if no melee power is added to the core abilities.

Other martial and primal destinies already include abilities which work with ranged, some of which are very strong. From what you have said in this thread, those abilities will continue to work. It may not be clear to you, but Shiradi is already considered quite suboptimal and a flavour choice even for ranged comabt by the community's more serious ranged players and builders.

Shiradi is the only martial or primal destiny not receiving the buff. The melee power buff is even being provided to a divine destiny which is already a strong choice both for melees and casters, and additional of it to an arcane destiny (Fatesinger) seems to be under consideration.
/snip

Yes, please include melee power in Shiradi.

[Standal]

Am I missing something or is MB just getting nerfed into the ground for levels 20-27? Master's blitz would have been at 100+250 MP if not changed, but at level 20, now it's 100+130, going up to 100+170 at level 28. Given that some version of TRing is about all there is to do with the amount of new content that's being released, this needs to be at least discussed.

[Gargalarg]

Am I missing something or is MB just getting nerfed into the ground for levels 20-27? Master's blitz would have been at 100+250 MP if not changed, but at level 20, now it's 100+130, going up to 100+170 at level 28. Given that some version of TRing is about all there is to do with the amount of new content that's being released, this needs to be at least discussed.

Yes, I do not like this nerf to blitz, but really i also believe the devs might be too stubborn to change something that >51% of the player base is against (I really REALLY HOPE that is not true though).

[Cetus]

I find it funny that you try to defeat my argument by targetting non-exact affirmations I did and then you try to degrade me by doing exactly the same thing (but in a much more arrogant manner). I was going to answer to your post but after reading it again it's full of assumptions that YOU made as a player.

Okay, let's be blunt here: I don't think a melee should run around in circles healing himself waiting for cleave. That's what a bad sorcerer does, he jumps around waiting for Fireball to go off again. A melee should stay in melee range and melee things. If you wanna kite things then go play a Caster or an Archer. Or better yet, a Ranger.

Degrade you? I degraded your argument, not you. You really are perceptive.

If I say that I can support my opinion that your idea was terrible, given my posting history it would be reasonable to believe me. I'm just not going to do it because it simply isn't important enough. Making blitz a vulnerable type ability turns it into a party buff. No thanks.

Such adorable words! Let's add more content to them. We live in a world where:

** A strange device called "Telephone" exists. And it rings. A lot.
** Other people exist.
** Door bells exist.
** People aren't Bladeforged and thus need to eat, stretch and use the toilet.
** Parents exist. And they ask you to grab them some coffee.

Also:

** This is an online game. I have friends and I want to talk to them. Blitz punishes me for doing that.

Huh?

[Cetus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp7qecrqLgg

He always does that, I chose that video because Breaking the Ranks is easy on the eyes. It's the same strategy he used for EE WGU and everything else.

DDO should encourage melee players to melee, and not kite like a sorc.

Lol, so you want to dictate my playstyle now? Let's see....I cleave when there are large hordes of mobs, I melee the red named when they come around, and I throw cleaves in to reset momentum swing. When I get low on hitpoints, I recon myself (I always do that too), when my tenser's runs out, I cast tenser's (I always do that too). Why is it, out of all the things that I similarly do "all the time" - the cleave is what your problem is? More irrational and nonsensical arguments.

Not kite like a sorc....I gather up mobs and cleave them. I should be able to do that. mmkay?

[Cetus]

Blitz does not take much skill and timing. Why are you deluding yourself? It is easy pretty easy to make work of course 6 people in a quest blitzing is difficult because quests are designed for only 1-2 blitzers at once. It is not party friendly which is something that I can not stress enough. Somebody already was talking about how EIN is nice well EIN is not nice with blitz nor is implosion, or assasinate, or coup, or wail or any insta kill.

.

I'd love to bring my sorc in with your blitzer, and test some of these claims. The ease with which you'll maintain blitz depends on the skill level of your party members. Naturally, if your party members aren't that good and you are, then blitz will make you leap ahead. Then these said party members will cry about how its unfair, unbalancing, whaaa, whaa, whaa. Equally skilled players don't cry at all about blitz within the the endgame community that I play with. In fact, a lot of the fun we have revolves around competing with each other and TRYING to take each other's kills. It's quite a blast actually.

[moo_cow]

GMOF does not need to be max dps with the strength of EIN (although the viability of getting a high enough DC for new content needs to be monitored).

The part in brackets is quite important because if you don't go for near max wisdom you won't get that effective of a dc. If you do go towards maxing the dc then you lose a bit of damage. As I see it right now I see GMOF as being no where near as useful as the other destiny's. I may be wrong on this in the upcoming update but we shall see I suppose.

[Talonaise]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp7qecrqLgg

He always does that, I chose that video because Breaking the Ranks is easy on the eyes. It's the same strategy he used for EE WGU and everything else.

DDO should encourage melee players to melee, and not kite like a sorc.

He doesn't. I think you are not seeing everything he does. But even without the videos, running in quests with him it is clear to see that he is not kiting.

[Talonaise]

Blitz does not take much skill and timing. Why are you deluding yourself? It is easy pretty easy to make work of course 6 people in a quest blitzing is difficult because quests are designed for only 1-2 blitzers at once. It is not party friendly which is something that I can not stress enough. Somebody already was talking about how EIN is nice well EIN is not nice with blitz nor is implosion, or assasinate, or coup, or wail or any insta kill.

What Blitz reminds me of is the old puncturing effect on weapons. It took the devs three years to nerf puncturing and people become used to it and made builds based around it, but it was a beneficial change to the game despite the short term pain some people felt when the devs got around to nerfing puncturing. Blitz is not party friendly and is the only effective melee destiny currently both of which make the game less fun. If the devs are hell bent on keeping blitz what they should do is make the legendary dreadnaught destiny one of the weaker destinies - let these fringe players have their blitz.

DDO is about DPS that is just the way the game is. Give shadowdancer and primal avatar big buffs. Legendary dreadnaught is a tactical based destiny (cc oriented) in reality. Primal and Shadowdancer should be centered around dps and should provide more dps then Legendary Dreadnaught.

I am not talking about six people in quest blitzing, I am telling you that most players can not keep a blitz going when they are the only one in the party blitzing without screaming out to the party "I'm blitzing" which is code for "I am a gimp and need you not to kill things so that I can blitz". That is lame. Frankly, there are many other classes who are keeping up and killing just as fast as the blitzer, far fewer blitzers can keep that blitz going. I have no idea why you think it takes no skill to play. I have seen far too many horrid players trying to blitz that I know it isn't true.

Blitz is nothing like the old WP weapons, imho... those worked with no skill whatsoever beyond swinging my ac ranger that dual wielded wp/rapiers took no skill to play. As far as being party friendly -- what does that term mean??? It is just as party friendly as any other strongly built class. Casters can keep up and have fun, Druids can keep up and have fun, Ranged can keep up and have fun. If you have a well built toon and moderate skill level, you should have no problems keeping up and having fun.

[PermaBanned]

I am not talking about six people in quest blitzing, I am telling you that most players can not keep a blitz going when they are the only one in the party blitzing without screaming out to the party "I'm blitzing" which is code for "I am a gimp and need you not to kill things so that I can blitz". That is lame.

I'm sure that's true in some cases, however most often when I've had that come up in group play it was actually code for "I would greatly apreciate it if you don't do the last 5% of damage (or Instakill) the thing I just did the first 95% of damage to."

Personally, I prefer GMoF (likely because my main is melee focused Monk) for fun and utility. When I'm in a party with a Blitzer, I have no problem adjusting my play to where I beat things down by 80 or 90% leaving the kill shot for the Blitzer. Of course that's somewhat situational - if there's relatively few mobs I won't kill squat, if it's a room full I'll kill my share as needed. Either way, it's good for the party to have the Blitzer at full stack when arriving at a boss or other bloated sack of HP.

I don't need to see a killing blow to enjoy myself, and I imagine it must be quite obnoxious to have my power hinged upon delivering that blow when in a party that (wether intentionally or unintentionally) is undermining my ability to do so.

[Zasral]

I am really bored at work so I actually read this whole thread. I'm not sure if it's occurred to any of you that right around the corner is epic necro. I assume it will be full of crit immune/near crit immune undead. Casters will still get there double damage from fire so they don't need any help. Melee toons however will be relying on base damage, and supplemental d6's. MP sounds like a great way to keep melee viable in the upcoming content. Can it be turbine is being pro active? That a lot of the balance issues everyone seems worried about now go out the window against crit immune mobs. Maybe the devs even know some things we don't? Just a thought.

[Cetus]

I am really bored at work so I actually read this whole thread. I'm not sure if it's occurred to any of you that right around the corner is epic necro. I assume it will be full of crit immune/near crit immune undead. Casters will still get there double damage from fire so they don't need any help. Melee toons however will be relying on base damage, and supplemental d6's. MP sounds like a great way to keep melee viable in the upcoming content. Can it be turbine is being pro active? That a lot of the balance issues everyone seems worried about now go out the window against crit immune mobs. Maybe the devs even know some things we don't? Just a thought.

Unless their fortification is considerably higher than 100%, they won't be crit immune. We already bypass a significant amount of fortification.

[Talonaise]

I'm sure that's true in some cases, however most often when I've had that come up in group play it was actually code for "I would greatly apreciate it if you don't do the last 5% of damage (or Instakill) the thing I just did the first 95% of damage to."

Personally, I prefer GMoF (likely because my main is melee focused Monk) for fun and utility. When I'm in a party with a Blitzer, I have no problem adjusting my play to where I beat things down by 80 or 90% leaving the kill shot for the Blitzer. Of course that's somewhat situational - if there's relatively few mobs I won't kill squat, if it's a room full I'll kill my share as needed. Either way, it's good for the party to have the Blitzer at full stack when arriving at a boss or other bloated sack of HP.

I don't need to see a killing blow to enjoy myself, and I imagine it must be quite obnoxious to have my power hinged upon delivering that blow when in a party that (wether intentionally or unintentionally) is undermining my ability to do so.

No, that isn't what I was referring to. I have been in pug groups where the leader has told us specifically to not kill things so the blitzer can get it. -- I think a good blitzer can keep their blitz going without everyone else bending over backwards for them. I don't think the blitz is OP in any way.