Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[psteen1]

Making SWF and shield mastery mutally-exclusive is just ridiculous.

And claiming that doing so now is a bug, is also ridiculous. No where does it say that you can't have both.

Shield mastery is it's own thing, unrelated to these weapon lines.

If SWF and shield mastery are "fixed", then I would expect to see dwarven axes and bastard swords also get a similar treatment for THF and shield mastery. And I don't want that either. But logically you can't do one without the other.

Otherwise it is just a blatant bard nerf, right after bard gets some love. And while swashbucklers are good, I don't think the argument that they are OP and need a nerf is much of an argument.

[Xaxx]

I love people complaining about the nerf to blitz.. what nerf? Blitz is the exact same power its only lost its overall power curve to the other mele destinies, which it will technically still be above since well its still got more power. I also love people wanting to tone down the amount of mp the other destinies are getting because.. I dont know they think blitz is being nerfed.... by others catching up a bit.. I love that line of thinking lol.

Yet if blitz was removed from the tree all together, out of the mele destinies its still the best or at worse second best of them. Crit damage, 1/2 weapon, action boosts, haste action boost, the attacks, +1 19-20, advancing blows, the other attacks.. not to mention chop and pulv... compare it to the other two mainly used currently epic destinies out there fury and dc...

Furry biggest tributes that most people who use it are +6 damage, primal scream (easily twistable), sense weakness (twisted by many people), and fury combined with overwhelming force. Personally in group situations I currently prefer furry for adrenalin because Ive never been a fan of multiple blitzers in a group and the chaos that can cause in a group. But they're changing blitz from charge and kill to some version of an on hit measure.... which brings it to a grouping ability that you dont have to worry about certain egos etc.. in truth for pure mele (no ranged so no fury shot such as ranger or ranger splashes) even without blitz I'd argue that ld is almost as good as fury... with blitz and the changed to blitz.... heck most of the guys that I prefer to run fury on will probably change over to ld for group and solo content (cause I use ld for solo pretty much all the flipin time)

Crusader is +4 damage, its end clicky (which blitz shatters), purification (which no one really seems to care that much about), and the self healing, 10% damage and 10% double strike, +1 crit range.. well news flash guys, that self healing is 100% twistable.. blitz aint. The 10% damage from con is twistable but requires work and three twist slots... thoguh with the healing and the 10% its somethign that might be worth eating all three twists... still cant twist oc, advancing blows, or blitz.... double strike doesnt stack with an item... so its a convienence thing.... but battle ragers harness outstrips it and is active most of the time if your in combat... the biggest thing for dc is +1 crit range, which is better than alot fo the toys in ld playchest.. but better then all of emtogether.. ehhh

So lets take new blitz and add the mp to fury and dc... and what do we get that is unique and untistable by the other destinies.. ld gets up to 100% more mp, advancing blows, dev crit, pulb and chop, and the action boosts from innate... fury gets adrens, adren knockdown, 50 more hp and +6 damage... dc gets +1 crit range, 10% heal amp, more sp, +4 damage, 10% ds (once again doesnt stack with items so its an item slot saver), 10 prr, zealof reighteous, strike down and celestial (neither of which many people seem to use or enjoy that much when talking about pure mele)... now in the general measureables of this.... ld is no longer the go to destiny... its got competition depending on what you want to do... and you know what... variety of choice isnt really a bad thing...... now the other side is the higher the mp advantage that ld and blitz has over any of the other destinies takes blitz back further from whatever parity that they're trying to get.... so while I know people have run ld for years and they want to continue to run ld... guess what guys.... YOU CAN... but having the other destinies be as good doesnt make your running ld any less viable.

I personally like to run different destinies for different needs any more... but changing blitz to on hit with no charge would bring ld much more into focus for me, and if ld is that much better.. I'll be running ld with everyone else.... Id prefer to be able to switch around, but hey the power is where the power is. Thats my two cents on all the WAAAH NEEERF WAAH NERF guys out there and my general view of where blitz should stand versus the others... take it for what it is.

[Seikojin]

Xaxx the nerf to blitz is having to going from 150 melee power to 250 melee power while in blitz instead of going from 150 melee power and getting an additional 250 melee power from blitz; since currently on live we are equally strong without blitz, and blitzing gives us 250% damage.

So in the new setup, we will all be the same, but when we blitz, we will gain 100% more damage.

[Seikojin]

Sounds like it is time to have lamannia up with an update

[Xaxx]

As to concerns about swashbucklers and orbs getting the 10/15 or if they're nuts enough for what 4 feats 20 mele power... simple... make the mele power part of the feat apply only to large and tower shields, since they seem to have determined to make a differnece between small/buckler and large/tower for evasion and a few other things... why not make this same determination in the mele power. No need to seperate swf and shield mastery feats for those who wish to use them because some people are getting bent out of shape over 10-15-20 mele power. Seperating the two limits build options, chaging it so that those build options dont benefit from everything leaves the build options open but puts choices in play that give something and not everything... we good here now?

[Xaxx]

Xaxx the nerf to blitz is having to going from 150 melee power to 250 melee power while in blitz instead of going from 150 melee power and getting an additional 250 melee power from blitz; since currently on live we are equally strong without blitz, and blitzing gives us 250% damage.

So in the new setup, we will all be the same, but when we blitz, we will gain 100% more damage.

You are still the same power as before the EXACT SAME POWER.. a nerf is A REDUCTION of that power... what do you guys not understand your power has not been reduced... power outside of that that you are using is being raised.. nothing more nothing less. The best and the ONLY thing that you can complain about a ld or blitz nerf is that its a proxy nerf by power distribution... and that is not a nerf. Blitz is tied DIRECTLY to ld, it cant be twisted, it can only be taken or not taken. So ld gets buffed and blitz well lets look at it say at 10 stacks...

stack.. now... after
1........25%...160%
2........50%....170%
3........75%...180%
4........100%..190%
5........125%..200%
6........150%..210%
7........175%..220%
8........200%..230%
9........225%..240%
10......250%..250%

So at stacks one to 9 of blitz.... IT WILL BE MORE POWERFUL IN THE NEW VERSION THAN CURRENT... and at stack 10 it will be even.... oh look NO BLITZ NERF..... game over.. argue against it all you will theres the numbers above.

The kicker the absolute and final nail in the blitz nerf coffin is this.... if you dont even take blitz.. ld is better off than it was before... hows that for a kick to the blitz nerf mythology huh??

[Bridge_Dweller]

I love people complaining about the nerf to blitz.. what nerf? Blitz is the exact same power its only lost its overall power curve to the other mele destinies, which it will technically still be above since well its still got more power. I also love people wanting to tone down the amount of mp the other destinies are getting because.. I dont know they think blitz is being nerfed.... by others catching up a bit.. I love that line of thinking lol.

Yet if blitz was removed from the tree all together, out of the mele destinies its still the best or at worse second best of them. Crit damage, 1/2 weapon, action boosts, haste action boost, the attacks, +1 19-20, advancing blows, the other attacks.. not to mention chop and pulv... compare it to the other two mainly used currently epic destinies out there fury and dc...

Furry biggest tributes that most people who use it are +6 damage, primal scream (easily twistable), sense weakness (twisted by many people), and fury combined with overwhelming force. Personally in group situations I currently prefer furry for adrenalin because Ive never been a fan of multiple blitzers in a group and the chaos that can cause in a group. But they're changing blitz from charge and kill to some version of an on hit measure.... which brings it to a grouping ability that you dont have to worry about certain egos etc.. in truth for pure mele (no ranged so no fury shot such as ranger or ranger splashes) even without blitz I'd argue that ld is almost as good as fury... with blitz and the changed to blitz.... heck most of the guys that I prefer to run fury on will probably change over to ld for group and solo content (cause I use ld for solo pretty much all the flipin time)

Crusader is +4 damage, its end clicky (which blitz shatters), purification (which no one really seems to care that much about), and the self healing, 10% damage and 10% double strike, +1 crit range.. well news flash guys, that self healing is 100% twistable.. blitz aint. The 10% damage from con is twistable but requires work and three twist slots... thoguh with the healing and the 10% its somethign that might be worth eating all three twists... still cant twist oc, advancing blows, or blitz.... double strike doesnt stack with an item... so its a convienence thing.... but battle ragers harness outstrips it and is active most of the time if your in combat... the biggest thing for dc is +1 crit range, which is better than alot fo the toys in ld playchest.. but better then all of emtogether.. ehhh

So lets take new blitz and add the mp to fury and dc... and what do we get that is unique and untistable by the other destinies.. ld gets up to 100% more mp, advancing blows, dev crit, pulb and chop, and the action boosts from innate... fury gets adrens, adren knockdown, 50 more hp and +6 damage... dc gets +1 crit range, 10% heal amp, more sp, +4 damage, 10% ds (once again doesnt stack with items so its an item slot saver), 10 prr, zealof reighteous, strike down and celestial (neither of which many people seem to use or enjoy that much when talking about pure mele)... now in the general measureables of this.... ld is no longer the go to destiny... its got competition depending on what you want to do... and you know what... variety of choice isnt really a bad thing...... now the other side is the higher the mp advantage that ld and blitz has over any of the other destinies takes blitz back further from whatever parity that they're trying to get.... so while I know people have run ld for years and they want to continue to run ld... guess what guys.... YOU CAN... but having the other destinies be as good doesnt make your running ld any less viable.

I personally like to run different destinies for different needs any more... but changing blitz to on hit with no charge would bring ld much more into focus for me, and if ld is that much better.. I'll be running ld with everyone else.... Id prefer to be able to switch around, but hey the power is where the power is. Thats my two cents on all the WAAAH NEEERF WAAH NERF guys out there and my general view of where blitz should stand versus the others... take it for what it is.

You know a lot about DDO. Did you take that online course?

[Grailhawk]

The "don't nerf blitz" crowd are trying to spin it as a proxy nerf (with out using the word proxy since Sev already dismissed proxy nerfs as not nerfs) aka blitz got weaker relative to every thing else that only got stronger. Its flawed argument and should just be ignored.

Now whats harder to see is how do Fury, Divine Crusader, and Legendary Dreadnought compare given that LD is now only 100% better. IMO it hasn't really changed any thing LD is still the best all around DPS increase, DC being slightly weaker but adding more survival, and Fury with a bit more DPS then DC but less survival.

IMO distribution 3/5 of Blitz power to all other Melee destines is a great idea, I'm just not sure if they should not have nerfed Blitz down to say 150% before doing the distribution (eg 90% to all, with blitz only being a 60% increase).

[Kaytis]

...
If we just nerf blitz then melee won't have any option or build to stay competitive with good ranged and casting builds
...
Sev~

I question the premise of whether melee are supposed to be competitive with high end casters. I recently started running with a blitzer on my sorc, and he is consistently out damaging and out killing my sorc. Jealousy aside -if all melee are going to be able to do this, why play a caster, in particular a sorc, at all?

I am quite serious. In addition to never running out of mana, the melee is going to have armor hence PRR, MRR and AC. My sorc has none of that. That was the trade off I made when I chose to play a sorc. I like the glass cannon role. I like the fragility for power trade off. But why do that when I can be an M1-Abrams tank and still have all that power if not more? And never need to refill the gas tanks to boot.

In short, you are making it so that there is no trade-off to playing a melee, while casters are stuck with severe defensive penalties and no significant power advantage. They will end up being buff bot / d-door providers.

[Grailhawk]

I question the premise of whether melee are supposed to be competitive with high end casters. I recently started running with a blitzer on my sorc, and he is consistently out damaging and out killing my sorc. Jealousy aside -if all melee are going to be able to do this, why play a caster, in particular a sorc, at all?

I am quite serious. In addition to never running out of mana, the melee is going to have armor hence PRR, MRR and AC. My sorc has none of that. That was the trade off I made when I chose to play a sorc. I like the glass cannon role. I like the fragility for power trade off. But why do that when I can be an M1-Abrams tank and still have all that power if not more? And never need to refill the gas tanks to boot.

In short, you are making it so that there is no trade-off to playing a melee, while casters are stuck with severe defensive penalties and no significant power advantage. They will end up being buff bot / d-door providers.

Casters have both Range and Displacement as defense that's all they need.

There may be a viable argument as to why not every melee should have 250% damage bonus but It has nothing to do with defense.

[Bridge_Dweller]

I recently started running with a blitzer on my sorc, and he is consistently out damaging and out killing my sorc.

You need to build a better caster.

[Kaytis]

Casters have both Range and Displacement as defense that's all they need.

There may be a viable argument as to why not every melee should have 250% damage bonus but It has nothing to do with defense.

Eventually something is going to catch up to my caster. On EH that won't be a problem, and never has been, on EE she will be dead in second. Two if she has displacement. Melee will have better defensive capability, the same damage output and have a much better shot at survival. And if the enemy mob is a caster then the melee with MRR will be able to close the distance alive, with or without evasion, whereas my evasionless pure sorc will be obliterated before she takes two steps. If melee and casters are at the same damage level, but melee have much stronger defense then it's kind of a no-brainer which one to play.

[Kaytis]

You need to build a better caster.

She's actually quite good by most accounts. But thank you for your thoughtful reply.

[Bridge_Dweller]

She's actually quite good by most accounts. But thank you for your thoughtful reply.

If you're getting out-killed by a melee then no, she isn't.

[Krelar]

Melee Power, Two Handed Fighting feats, and Shield Feats
To help further balance the system, some basic feats are being changed to add Melee Power as a passive bonus.

Two Handed Fighting adds 10 Melee Power while wielding a two handed weapon.
Improved Two Handed Fighting adds an additional 5 Melee Power while wielding a two handed weapon.
Greater Two Handed Fighting adds an additional 5 Melee Power while wielding a two handed weapon.

Shield Mastery adds 10 Melee Power while wielding a shield.
Improved Shield Mastery adds an additional 5 Melee Power while wielding a shield.
Improved Shield Bash adds an additional 5 Melee Power while wielding a shield.

Are you going to add any melee power to the epic destiny feat perfect two handed fighting?

On a related note since your working on making sword and board more interesting/viable will we get a perfect shield mastery epic destiny feat?

[Severlin]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

[UurlockYgmeov]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are dropping the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

No this is wrong.

Leave it in the epic destinies innate abilities and epic levels. Give the cry babies their small bump in MB (who I refuse to group up with because of issues already explained.)

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are dropping the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

Sooooo...

You're dropping the bit that had me really excited for melees, considering that I've never in my life blitzed and have never had any intention of doing so?

Yeah, shoulda seen that coming.

[Greantun]

No this is wrong.

Leave it in the epic destinies innate abilities and epic levels. Give the cry babies their small bump in MB (who I refuse to group up with because of issues already explained.)

I agree. Removing it from everywhere else means you HAVE to run in LD with Blitz, just like it is today. Putting it in the other ED's made more viable options in other ED's.

[Aelonwy]

Are you going to add any melee power to the epic destiny feat perfect two handed fighting?

On a related note since your working on making sword and board more interesting/viable will we get a perfect shield mastery epic destiny feat?

Interesting question in that same vein, rather than converting the shield mastery feats from defensive feats into a line of combat style feats as some people seem to be assuming they always were or ought to be, why not create a line of shield combat feats starting with Improved Shield Bash.

Currently - Improved Shield Bash, passive, Enables the character to retain the shield bonus to its Armor Class when using Shield Bash, and grants a 20% chance to make a secondary Shield Bash while attacking with a melee weapon. Add melee power to this feat.

Greater Shield Bash, passive, grants an additional 10 or 15 % chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon. Adds more melee power, maybe a small 5% stacking attack speed bonus.

Epic Shield Bash, passive, grants an additional 10 or 15 % chance to make a secondary shield bash while attacking with a melee weapon. Adds more melee power, maybe brings the stacking attack speed bonus up to 10%.

Thats off the top of my head, there could be better suggestions.