Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[Sloene]

My response was specifically to your concern that players could gain the benefit of both SWF and the Shield feats. None of those will make the Shield feats work.

Anyway the ability to take both SWF and the shield feats is a bug that should be fixed when these changes go into effect.



Good feedback, but I think we want to see how the additional Melee Power and the ability to use Glancing Blows while moving work before talking about nerfing SWF, especially since it was just released.

Sev~

What ever way you look at it, a buckler is still a shield and should benefit from the mastery feats, orb's are not so shouldn't. Please remember that the extra dps comes at a significant cost of 2 feats and a twist slot on what is generally a feat starved class unless heavily splashed.

[Indianwiz]

3) Why? Spellcasters didn't get 90 free Universal Spell power. If I understand MP correctly, this is just 90% more damage for free that they get?

Spell pass, epic spells and epic spellbook coming Soon(R) or maybe, Never(R).

[CaptainSpacePony]

Please grant a small portion of melee power to Fatesinger. It's not a bad destiny for melee bards, it's always just been well implemented (read no stupidly over powered abilities)

Failing to give Fatesinger a bit of a boost at the same time as most of the other melee based ED's will just leave it to rot.

good point

[Kalevor]

A lot of info to digest here... buff

Some comments:

1) The idea of make all ED more used it's awesome.

2) But to give 6/10 blitz charges to every melee seems... a little bit crazy. Why not half? 3/10

3) It's not clear to me if there'll be changes to fury, crusader and others to adjust to this changes above... if not i think crusader will be the no brainer... in my opinion crusader is very close to Ld in overall power right now.

[Wipey]

With the current system we can have only a person blitzing at the same time in a party. With your New System we will have 6 people doing that maxed dps in the same party (up to 12 in a raid). I think that will be a serious issue to the balance. Right now most of the EE quest are soloed by many people... i can solo most of them myself and i don't think i'm one of the best player. With those changes the dps of a full party will at least be x2 - x3 the one we have now. Are you sure this is a good idea in a game that is really easy right now? EE are not supposed to be soloed easily, not even in a party. There are EN and EH for that.
I hope you can clean my doubts.

P.s. sorry for my bad english

What they said. Tone the uber power creep the heck down. Not Blitz like damage for everybody unless you wanna Hello Kitty difficulty.
We are soloing / shortmanning most things already.
90% of game is complete joke, all heroics, all epic hards, almost everything EE except raids and few high level ones.

[Qhualor]

Purely ranged combat and epic destiny choices are quite odd when you look at it from an overall perspective.

Dreadnought is a tactics based destiny centered on cleaves and melee strikes. It is also the best ranged destiny why?
Fury is basically a barbarian destiny focused on THF bonuses, helpless damage and threat. Its the 2nd best ranged destiny why?
Shiradi is actually a ranged focused destiny, yet it is much better for casters and is only the 3rd choice for ranged characters why?

I completely understand the concerns for having a ranged viable destiny in each sphere for the ETR grind. I completely understand that ranged characters don't like being pigeonholed the way blitz pigeonholed melees. But this is honestly a topic for an entirely new thread and possibly an entirely new update given the scope of the problem.

this

might as well make melee viable in Arcane too if you are going to have ranged viable in all destinies. people can call it pigeonholing all they want, but its not.

[tiamat1985]

My response was specifically to your concern that players could gain the benefit of both SWF and the Shield feats. None of those will make the Shield feats work.

Anyway the ability to take both SWF and the shield feats is a bug that should be fixed when these changes go into effect.

Sev~

I want to see many nerf in this game but you are not gonna do those, instead you are gonna do a huge buff to all melee, ok i will take it... You said you are not gonna nerf ranged build that, are abusing bugs to stay in EDs created for melees, because you are not nerfing builds that are working right now in live.
Taking both the swf and the shield mastery is NOT a bug because is not written anywhere you could not. You can swf with an orb (that is classified to be a shield) and in swashbuckler you CAN use a buckler in swf, so taking both the feats is not a bug and is used in build currently on live.
Why are you "fixing" that?

[ishr]

Is the massive ranged nerf a statement about the future of ranged toons?

• Melee toons will be gaining a 250% boost to DPS
• Master's Blitz will no longer work with ranged toons
• Fury of the Wild's 150% bonus to DPS will also not work with ranged damage
• Shiradi gains no ranged damage bonus
• Unbridled Fury may or may not work with ranged toons in the future

Please answer regarding this last point in particular.

[mikameow]

Sev,

don't do this.

If you change LD and FoTW, you ARE AFFECTING RANGED combat. Because that's what 90% of bow users run in.

This is so true, if you change LD and FoTW to boost melee but not range your going to destroy many builds, lose many players and frankly bow builds will be useless again. Bow builds are already completely inferior to thrower builds in shiradi. As to the "not this update we'll deal with it for the next one" I say this, how many archer players are you going alienate and lose before then. Because many of those people won't be coming back to see what your grand plans are for bow build next update given the pace of content release. I don't even use an archer build and I'm very nervous about this potential change because of DDO's already low population. Please add ranged power to LD and FOTW. Even if its the 250%blitz for ranged band-aid that's a hell of a lot better than removing ranged functionality from those destinys, although distributing ranged power with melee power is a far better option IMO.

[blerkington]

this

might as well make melee viable in Arcane too if you are going to have ranged viable in all destinies. people can call it pigeonholing all they want, but its not.

Hi,

I don't think anyone has asked for every destiny to be adjusted to support ranged combat.

What I've seen in this thread so far, is people asking for it to remain viable in LD, SD and Fury. Rather than shiradi being the only choice for people who use throwers, crossbows or bows.

That will preserve some choice for ranged builds, just like melee and casters currently have a choice of destinies, rather than being pigeonholed into one.

Thanks.

[lain5246]

I want to see many nerf in this game but you are not gonna do those, instead you are gonna do a huge buff to all melee, ok i will take it... You said you are not gonna nerf ranged build that, are abusing bugs to stay in EDs created for melees, because you are not nerfing builds that are working right now in live.
Taking both the swf and the shield mastery is NOT a bug because is not written anywhere you could not. You can swf with an orb (that is classified to be a shield) and in swashbuckler you CAN use a buckler in swf, so taking both the feats is not a bug and is used in build currently on live.
Why are you "fixing" that?

I agree, if you can meet the requirements than you should be able to reap the rewards. Not everyone is a uber-min/maxed- has a serious god complex-must lead in kills player, some of us just want to do interesting things like have a melee arti using bastard swords/ dwarven war axes. and want to get the swf/twf feats. and the requirements mesh up right till someone sais that is too good. devs, come on, if you can use some of these abilities together because it meets the requirements than so be it. I find it hard to say we like having some classes be better together that the class solo but fighting stiles that have more restrictions are bad to sync up...

[SirShen]

My response was specifically to your concern that players could gain the benefit of both SWF and the Shield feats. None of those will make the Shield feats work.

Anyway the ability to take both SWF and the shield feats is a bug that should be fixed when these changes go into effect.



Good feedback, but I think we want to see how the additional Melee Power and the ability to use Glancing Blows while moving work before talking about nerfing SWF, especially since it was just released.

Sev~

Does this mean that bards wont be able to take shield feats if so BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Vanhooger]

Does this mean that bards wont be able to take shield feats if so BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

So a buckler now is classified as a trinket?

[Rull]

If I understand correctly....

If currently:
level10: 50 dps from base, 2.5 dps from venomed blades
and then your attack speed/double strike increases (as well as you str, deadly, critprofile etc.)
level28: 200 dps from base, 5 dps from venomed blades (2.5%)

then in your new system:
level10: 50 dps from base, 2.5 dps from light damage
and then your attack speed/double strike increases (as well as you str, deadly, critprofile etc.)
level28: 500 dps from base, 12.5 dps from light damage (still 2.5%)

The thing you are doing is reducing the additional damage you do leave out of scaling, like sneak damage.and weapon damage and ravager set and those enhancements you will forget to add [scales by melee power] to... I don't see any reason to downscale them all.

All other damage is just multiplied by 2.5 equally.

I don't get it.

[eris2323]

Ranged builds will be looked into at some future date, but not for the Armor Up update.

Sev~

Yeah. Right.

Heard that before.

Just like you guys will re-look at cannith challenges exp, and crafting, and the dozens of other systems you abandoned.

Your changes look interesting, EXCEPT for the fact when you totally ignore all ranged builds.

Guess it's good timing, in the end. School will start, and I can quit DDO again, since my main is a ranged char.

Thanks for taking away my game, I'm sure my marks will improve because of it.

[sephiroth1084]

So melee characters going through non-melee destinies are going to be at an even greater disadvantage than they were before, as they will now be losing 60% of their damage, in addition to what they had before.

Why does it seem like Turbine's solutions to problems are always at one end of the scale or another: either you're slapping a band-aid on a bullet wound, or removing all the organs when you do an appendectomy?

[Sgt_Hart]

That's what's been bugging me since I started reading this. I knew there was something niggling away in the back of my head - the example we keep being given is Paladin light damage. Which of course is, as you say, LIGHT damage. Why isn't that effect (and EK elemental blades, and anything else that procs magical damage) not instead boosted by the relevant spellpower, which is more what one would expect.

I've said before that DDO's stacking rules are frankly arcane to the new player. Boosting damage types which are clearly magical via melee or ranged 'power' instead of the appropriate spellpower will not help with that, and just introduces more gear types. I'd rather see better access to relevant spellpowers.

Which is not to say the idea of the free melee/ranged power as you level for pure adds to base weapon damage is not something to include, but let's not slap it on everything that we want to boost right now. Boost the things you want to boost with the right kind of buff, don't rush this.

Also.... how will this affect things like Rogue sneak attacks? Will that get boosted by this new 'power' mechanic?

Mind you, I'm all for it benefiting BASE damage, CRIT damage, SNEAK/FLANK damage, heck, even BANE and UNTYPED, though the with the latter two a case could be made for Force SPow. But making melee power effect magical damage types just feel like it opens the can of worms to the weird edge cases that we've seen in previous systems. I'm not saying it's the end of the world but..

Throg: Me hit stronger! Sword freeze more!
Fizban: Yes Throg, but its a +1, 1d6 cold damage greataxe. I'll admit it force of teh axe hitting hard kills things more quickly Throg, but you wish to convince me that it deals more cold damage because you hit that ogre, that much harder?
Throg: Uh Huh!
Fizban: Sigh. Your really are an uneducated barbarian.

Conversely, An Eldritch knight sorc should.. be able to grab the ice savant line, and rock that self same axe, with a tolerable degree of success (and a noteworthy DPS bump as its cold damage) because they just found a weapon in synch with what they do.

[Exiledtyrant]

I don't care what kind of power it is as long as the Eldritch Knight gets some type of melee arcane destiny to identify with and the spell sword toggles scale.

[count_spicoli]

This is so true, if you change LD and FoTW to boost melee but not range your going to destroy many builds, lose many players and frankly bow builds will be useless again. Bow builds are already completely inferior to thrower builds in shiradi. As to the "not this update we'll deal with it for the next one" I say this, how many archer players are you going alienate and lose before then. Because many of those people won't be coming back to see what your grand plans are for bow build next update given the pace of content release. I don't even use an archer build and I'm very nervous about this potential change because of DDO's already low population. Please add ranged power to LD and FOTW. Even if its the 250%blitz for ranged band-aid that's a hell of a lot better than removing ranged functionality from those destinys, although distributing ranged power with melee power is a far better option IMO.

I Don't think anybody cares if a ranger, arti, monk, crossbow using rogue are in LD OR FOTW. It's the ranger monk combo in those that is completely ridiculous. Nobody likes just running behind monkchers while they solo raids or to be told trying to get into an EE raid we are taking monkchers only. Split up 10K and many shot so they don't work together which should have never got this far anyway and problem solved.

[Chai]

Not with you guys on this one, so far. Youre inventing an entire new system in order to be smoke and mirrors for what really is causing the issue here, which is large arbitrary percentage increases in damage . Instead of removing the large arbitrary increase and replacing it with something more sustainable, you add more damage to one style, nerf the other, then add more stats, and more formulas.

Concepts like adrenaline are OK because you get one huge hit then its back to normal, but when someone runs around with 250% always on damage increase, where did you think melee and ranged were going to flock to? Making it melee only doesn't balance the game better. It gives melee one great option, one good option, and a bunch of terrible options. Ranged will be in the same boat, and if you remove its ability to work with those arbitrary damage increases, youre just making it mediocre. This is not balance.

In order to balance to occur, you must remove the arbitrary damage increases that are for one archetype only, then replace them with sustainable damage options for all, and an epic moment that allows characters to be user for ~30 seconds or so then they come back to reality. The fate singers epic moment is a perfect example, and should be used as a blueprint for other epic moments as a design blueprint.

Turbine gave too much power in sustainable arbitrary damage multipliers, then left it in the game too long, then announce what will effectively a nerf which doesn't even address what the real issue is in the first place. If you want to get this right, youll stop putting all of the melee power in one place, then wondering why other archetypes flock there too.