Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[Nayus]

Adding to blatant assertion we have the typical ad hominem.

Such adorable words! Let's add more content to them. We live in a world where:

** A strange device called "Telephone" exists. And it rings. A lot.
** Other people exist.
** Door bells exist.
** People aren't Bladeforged and thus need to eat, stretch and use the toilet.
** Parents exist. And they ask you to grab them some coffee.

Also:

** This is an online game. I have friends and I want to talk to them. Blitz punishes me for doing that.

[Arlathen]

Ok, after criticizing the current design, how would I go about doing it?

1. Grant a free 'Power' feat at Epic levels 21 - 28, which is a choice between +10 Melee, Ranged or Spell Power.
- Simplest way to ensure all builds receive a choice of relevant power boost to compete with Insane Mob HP in EE. It would even allow for more theme-orientated character builds to have a choice in balancing there bonus, such as +40 Melee Power / +40 Spell Power for a Eldritch Knight styled character.

2. Grant a choice in each and every Destiny to one of Melee, Ranged or Spell Power, that then grants a +7.5% bonus per innate for a total of +45 Spell Power.
- When I say relevant, this for example should be a choice of Melee or Spell Power in Divine Crusader, whereas Shiradi champion has a choice of Ranged or Spell Power. Consider letting Fatesinger have the option for all three.

Side Note: Total granted 'Innate' Power bonus would be +125% for all characters, in a chosen 'discipline'. Half of the current Master Blitz.

3. Reduce down Adrenaline/Adrenaline Overload/Unbridled Fury so that they still achieves the the same +% Damage, assuming all free bonus Melee Power is taken into account.
- No need to Nerf FotW, simply preserve its current power.

4. Reduce down Masters Blitz so that it still achieves the same +250% Melee Power, with full stacks as it presently does, assuming all free bonus Melee Power is taken into account.
- Again, no need to nerf Master's Blitz, simply preserve its current power.

5. Ensure that current Melee/Ranged/Spellpower is represented on Character Sheet somewhere. Nothing like yet another hidden stat to keep track of.


Net Benefits?
- Standard Melee characters not using Blitz/Fury gain a significant power boost, allowing use of none LD/FotW destinies.

- LD / Masters Blitz is not being nerfed and has the same +250% overall bonus, with characters in Legendary Dreadnought have a better base to work from when not Blitzing. Should Master's Blitz need changing in terms of mechanics to charge and maintain stacks? Not sure, but Quality of Life improvements are always welcome.

- FotW / Unbridled Fury / Adreanline isn't nerfed, as it has the same +400% overall bonus as it does now.

- Monkcher's are not gaining power in the Burst DPS department - they still getting the same overall +400%/+250% Damage Boost on there Slayer Arrows in FotW/LD.

- It does buff Monkchers/Ranged on none-Andrenaline/out-of-Blitz arrow situations. Standard Manyshots/10Kstars willl be alot stronger, giving reasonable ground to discuss nerfing Furyshot/Blitz for Ranger characters. I'll leave that argument to people playing these builds who are capable of reasoned discussion.

- DPS-based Spellcasting gains some ground for EE, instead of DC-based/Shiradi casting being king, as the're gaining a net cross-element 125% Damage boost.

In Summary
If EE Mob HP isn't being reduced across the board to make Melee more effective, then we need overall buffs to melee character power and not a Nerf to our top end abilities. Rebalancing Ranged characters and making DPS Spellcasting more viable is also only going to improve options and build choices for reasonable EE performance.

[Monkey_Archer]

The original design was much better.

Nerfing Master's Blitz without changing EE Mob HP means Melee's are going to have a harder time in EE as we have to spend more time in front of the Mob killing it.

This just isn't true. A single blitzing melee soloing an EE quest might spend more time killing a mob, but a group of melees in random destinies will spend significantly less time, and will make questing much easier, not harder.

And in what world is an Innate 75% Melee Power vs. 175% Melee Power when Blitzing going to convince me to play a different Melee Destiny?! Nope, sorry, not me.

Reality? At these numbers, divine crusader is going to be stronger than dreadnought.

And this is a theme-player who wants his melee characters to run Primal Avatar or Shadowdancer and not feel gimp compared to the Blitzing Centered-Kensai next to me. With the original design giving 150 Melee Power vs. the 250 of the Blitzer, I would of been much, much happier running a different destiny.

Changing melee power again might make shadowdancer more comparable to blitz, but its still not going to make it viable compared to DC or fury. Shadowdancer needs targeted and specific buffs for that to happen (or targeted nerfs to all the stronger destinies, not just blitz)

[fearlesswolf]

Adding to blatant assertion we have the typical ad hominem.

I think entering the forums and not expecting to see a couple of logical fallacies is a sin in its own right.

[B0ltdrag0n]

Reality? At these numbers, divine crusader is going to be stronger than dreadnought.

Yes and no. All the Aura abilities still only work for the person who has the first stack of Purification on a given mob. Though I believe the burst heal on monster kill works. So in reality a Group of well mixed DC and LD will be much better than a group that is singularly focused on one or the other.

For soloing? I think DC will be absolutely better though except maybe for Warforged toons.

[Monkey_Archer]

Yes and no. All the Aura abilities still only work for the person who has the first stack of Purification on a given mob. Though I believe the burst heal on monster kill works. So in reality a Group of well mixed DC and LD will be much better than a group that is singularly focused on one or the other.

For soloing? I think DC will be absolutely better though except maybe for Warforged toons.

True. Any more then 2 or 3 Divine crusaders would probably be too much unnecessary overlap. Taking blitzers would be beneficial for the consistently high dps, rather then the spiky higher-to-lower dps that zeal gives.

[Arlathen]

True. Any more then 2 or 3 Divine crusaders would probably be too much unnecessary overlap. Taking blitzers would be beneficial for the consistently high dps, rather then the spiky higher-to-lower dps that zeal gives.

So if I read between the lines on the past couple of posts, we now have two viable Destinies for Melees (LD/DC) and one for Monkchers (FotW)?

That's not good enough for me. What does a melee character in Primal Avatar, Shadowdancer, Grandmaster of Flowers, Fatesinger and potentially Unyielding Sentinal do? All of these destinies are intended for use by melee characters as well.

Apologies if I'm coming off as confrontational, but my personal agenda is that I want to see a far more level playing field between all the destinies that are intended for Melee character use, while retaining Blitz/Fury as being a 'top options' if you really want to go the Max DPS route.

[Monkey_Archer]

So if I read between the lines on the past couple of posts, we now have two viable Destinies for Melees (LD/DC) and one for Monkchers (FotW)?

That's not good enough for me. What does a melee character in Primal Avatar, Shadowdancer, Grandmaster of Flowers, Fatesinger and potentially Unyielding Sentinal do? All of these destinies are intended for use by melee characters as well.

Apologies if I'm coming off as confrontational, but my personal agenda is that I want to see a far more level playing field between all the destinies that are intended for Melee character use, while retaining Blitz/Fury as being a 'top options' if you really want to go the Max DPS route.

In my opinion, Fury, GMOF and Unyielding sentinel will also be viable for melees under the current proposal, for reasons other then raw dps. Fury has distinct THF synergy and offers CC for classes that don't have any inherent to them. GMOF does not need to be max dps with the strength of EIN (although the viability of getting a high enough DC for new content needs to be monitored). US might actually do enough damage to tank properly now and obviously offers more defense then any other destiny.

For Shadowdancer I think it just needs a direct buff somewhere (maybe more sneak attack) and a completely new epic moment.
For Fatesinger I think extending the duration and/or lowering the cooldown on Turn the Tide could go a long way.
For Primal avatar I have no clue, as I do not play druids and I'm not going to pretend to understand them.

[Gargalarg]

As someone who didnt use an XP stone to lvl all destinies (shocker!)

I Agree with these following statements.

Cetus- Notice - that all of the proposals with which I agreed kept blitzes absolute power unchanged, despite the reduction in its relative power. Now that blitzes absolute power is nerfed, I no longer maintain my position. What's egocentric about this? If anything, its consistent.

Arlathen- Apologies if I'm coming off as confrontational, but my personal agenda is that I want to see a far more level playing field between all the destinies that are intended for Melee character use, while retaining Blitz/Fury as being a 'top options' if you really want to go the Max DPS route.

To many players (including me), it would be upsetting to lose power in blitz.

Blitz (At least for me) generated fun through being actively maintained.

Your latest proposed implementation would make blitz MUCH MORE bland and boring.

I believe other destines should gain unique and fun powers that can be competitive with blitz, not just adding a bland statistic- melee power.

Thanks I really HOPE that you will take this into consideration.

[Ayseifn]

In my opinion, Fury, GMOF and Unyielding sentinel will also be viable for melees under the current proposal, for reasons other then raw dps. Fury has distinct THF synergy and offers CC for classes that don't have any inherent to them. GMOF does not need to be max dps with the strength of EIN (although the viability of getting a high enough DC for new content needs to be monitored). US might actually do enough damage to tank properly now and obviously offers more defense then any other destiny.

For Shadowdancer I think it just needs a direct buff somewhere (maybe more sneak attack) and a completely new epic moment.
For Fatesinger I think extending the duration and/or lowering the cooldown on Turn the Tide could go a long way.
For Primal avatar I have no clue, as I do not play druids and I'm not going to pretend to understand them.

Shadowdancer is not far off being an awesome tanking ED itself, evasion, 25% incorp, lots of dodge(10+), a 15 sec 100% dodge clicky, immunity to neg levels, ref saves and an MDB booster. When the initial proposed melee power changes were announced it was probably going to be my preferred ED for a lot of lives, should have been enough DPS to get through EEs without it feeling tedious and all those defensive buffs would allow me to be less attentive. Also DD and imp invis are pretty nice for leveling, it's a pretty decent ED IMO but HP bloat kills any interest I have in using it. Heck I even like that the epic moment is something that not everyone will take, it allows a different point spend than what we have with all the other EDs where you technically only have 22 points to use as the epic moment is always locked in.

[mikarddo]

So if I read between the lines on the past couple of posts, we now have two viable Destinies for Melees (LD/DC) and one for Monkchers (FotW)?

That's not good enough for me. What does a melee character in Primal Avatar, Shadowdancer, Grandmaster of Flowers, Fatesinger and potentially Unyielding Sentinal do? All of these destinies are intended for use by melee characters as well.

Apologies if I'm coming off as confrontational, but my personal agenda is that I want to see a far more level playing field between all the destinies that are intended for Melee character use, while retaining Blitz/Fury as being a 'top options' if you really want to go the Max DPS route.

A wis specced monk using EiN well is already fairly competitive on EE (also in Stormhorns). Both the outright killing power of EiN and the ability to CC large groups is quite powerfull. Adding +75% melee power to GMoF sure wont hurt either - infact I think this build could very well become a top contender in most quests.

[Vanhooger]

Some players absolutely LOVE it. Me included. Ranged and Melee.

About the killing blow:

Some players absolutely HATE it. Me included. Ranged and Melee.

You can't go 2 sec afk because of blitz.
You can't stop at shirne because of blitz.
You running like a crazy to mobs take it to 1% and the ranged or sorc burst just steal you kill and blitz.

All those thing make me playing LD really not fun, at all.

And asking the party, please let me blitz, is not fun either, I never saw a caster asking please let me burst or a ranged please let me use manyshot.

[Gargalarg]

About the killing blow:

Some players absolutely HATE it. Me included. Ranged and Melee.

You can't go 2 sec afk because of blitz.

You can go Afk 1 min and be down to 6 stacks lol

It encourages active gameplay, if it is not for you that is fine. use a different ED
You can't stop at shirne because of blitz.

You still wouldnt be able to shrine, i dont think they are changing anything to the 5min cooldown you would not have to recharge though.

You running like a crazy to mobs take it to 1% and the ranged or sorc burst just steal you kill and blitz.

I believe that makes an excellent opportunity cost you may lose stacks if you have low damage and cant kill enemies efficiently...

All those thing make me playing LD really not fun, at all.

And asking the party, please let me blitz, is not fun either.

It really depends on the party, but the whole point when it came out was to award melee's that can effectivly kill things quickly

EDIT: fail post read what is inside the white box lol

[Vanhooger]

It really depends on the party, but the whole point when it came out was to award melee's that can effectivly kill things quickly

EDIT: fail post read what is inside the white box lol

I completely disagree with all your point.

Maybe for you are fail not for me.

So you say, just don't play blitz use something else. What about if I want to use it?

Blitzing shouldn't be a stress, should be fun and far less damage then on live.

And shouldnt last foverever. It has to be inline with other epic moment.

If blitz won't change they should buff all the other epic moment and give them a way to last forever like bltiz.

[Gargalarg]

I completely disagree with all your point.

Maybe for you are fail not for me.

So you say, just don't play blitz use something else. What about if I want to use it?

Blitzing shouldn't be a stress, should be fun and far less damage then on live.

And shouldnt last forever. It has to be inline with other epic moment.

If blitz won't change they should buff all the other epic moment and give them a way to last forever like bltiz.

Well Blitz does last forever IF you are able to keep it up (If you are doing extensive and difficult quests that might be a challenge, which I like), I dont know why you would want it to do far less damage either, that would make it less effective and even close to unnoticeable

I believe other destines should be competitive with blitz without lowering its power.

-Yes buff the other epic moments, make them more interesting as well.

Blitz can be a hassle sometimes I understand that, but that is why it is fun for many.

[Talonaise]

Okay, let's be blunt here: I don't think a melee should run around in circles healing himself waiting for cleave. That's what a bad sorcerer does, he jumps around waiting for Fireball to go off again. A melee should stay in melee range and melee things. If you wanna kite things then go play a Caster or an Archer. Or better yet, a Ranger.

Who runs around in circles waiting for a cleave? It sounds to me like you play with bad players.

[Talonaise]

Such adorable words! Let's add more content to them. We live in a world where:

** A strange device called "Telephone" exists. And it rings. A lot.
** Other people exist.
** Door bells exist.
** People aren't Bladeforged and thus need to eat, stretch and use the toilet.
** Parents exist. And they ask you to grab them some coffee.

Also:

** This is an online game. I have friends and I want to talk to them. Blitz punishes me for doing that.

Yes real life exists, but I really don't want a game that stops the world so everyone in my party can live it. This is an MMO - when you go to do those things, the game goes on. If that happens to you a lot, then I do suggest that you play a class that can pike easier.

[Talonaise]

Well Blitz does last forever IF you are able to keep it up (If you are doing extensive and difficult quests that might be a challenge, which I like), I dont know why you would want it to do far less damage either, that would make it less effective and even close to unnoticeable

I believe other destines should be competitive with blitz without lowering its power.

-Yes buff the other epic moments, make them more interesting as well.

Blitz can be a hassle sometimes I understand that, but that is why it is fun for many.

Exactly -- I think that is the point - balancing all the characters again. Blitz takes some skill and timing. I think it is good that not everything is an easy button. I would like to see similar things in the other trees.

[B0ltdrag0n]

So if I read between the lines on the past couple of posts, we now have two viable Destinies for Melees (LD/DC) and one for Monkchers (FotW)?

That's not good enough for me. What does a melee character in Primal Avatar, Shadowdancer, Grandmaster of Flowers, Fatesinger and potentially Unyielding Sentinal do? All of these destinies are intended for use by melee characters as well.

Apologies if I'm coming off as confrontational, but my personal agenda is that I want to see a far more level playing field between all the destinies that are intended for Melee character use, while retaining Blitz/Fury as being a 'top options' if you really want to go the Max DPS route.

No you have a point. Those trees need work.

Unyielding is actually a better destiny for tanking, and/or healers I have found than melee but I dont expect they will change it much going forward as they did a pass on those 3 trees and made them the way they did on purpose.

Shadowdancers...are okish for TWF and dex based builds but not fantastic and should get help
G-MOF has EIN. Thats what it does.
Fatesinger. Is actually really fun to play it just has a trash Epic Moment and not good after the initial fun of leveling it up.
Primal Avatar?...I guess you hope they break melee attack speed when moving again.

[Sgt_Hart]

Behind the scenes there exists only class levels (which can total up to twenty) and epic levels (21-28). Since a level 20 character can have any number of combinations of normal levels (rogue 5/fighter 10/wizard 5) there is no unified place to add the bonus.

Wait.. What. What? What!

I had thought upon takign level 20.. ALL classes, ALL class combo's, ect.. get 4 free action points they don't have to "Earn" like normal AP.

Your saying this event doesn't exist anywhere in the DDO code? And/or you can't borrow some code from things like the favor feats, to make it a Do-once application?

This is a case where something seems to a player like it must be really easy to add, but the way the code is set up it actually be a large task that would take tech and threaten the schedule.

Ok, that part I won't(because I can't) argue. but the former.. come on man, I've only amateurly worked on video games, but even I know where the correct event to look for it.