Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[CaptainSpacePony]

"So then blitzing in of itself provides 175?"

Yes.

Sev~

I applaud the reduction in the scaled melee power tied to core EDs and Epic Levels, however 175 is too much for blitz. As it stands right now, that is a buff from live blitz since melee power affects more than just base damage. Furthermore, you have suggested that you will loosen the constraints on blitzing, thereby cementing it even more so as the ED for non-casters.

I propose that if blitz will no longer require kills to sustain that around 100 MP (10/stack) may be a better number. IMO, crusader, fury, and dreadnaught should all be very viable choices for DPS oriented (do not read as maz) toons.

[CaptainSpacePony]

I applaud the reduction in the scaled melee power tied to core EDs and Epic Levels, however 175 is too much for blitz. As it stands right now, that is a buff from live blitz since melee power affects more than just base damage. Furthermore, you have suggested that you will loosen the constraints on blitzing, thereby cementing it even more so as the ED for non-casters.

I propose that if blitz will no longer require kills to sustain that around 100 MP (10/stack) may be a better number. IMO, crusader, fury, and dreadnaught should all be very viable choices for DPS oriented (do not read as maz) toons.

I meant max, not maz but am unable to edit my posts every since these wonderful new forums went live.

[btolson]

So, I take it this means you are instead going to be revamping all the other melee destinies so they have abilities that can compete with LD/Blitz?

[Aelonwy]

So, I take it this means you are instead going to be revamping all the other melee destinies so they have abilities that can compete with LD/Blitz?

I hope thats what this means.

[Delacroix21]

So I guess Blitz is the only viable option for melee again.


BOOOOOO!!!!!


Guess I can take back what I said about you guys doing something right. Blitz only providing a bonus 100% (while definitely good) was not so powerfull that it was almost required for melee. Providing 175%, yep thats a requirement.


Shadowdancer was abandoned a LONG time ago as really it only adds 6d6 sneak attack (damage wise), this would have been +15d6 with 150 melee power, which was starting to make it competitive vs Blitz.





Sev heres a personal note for you= WHY DO YOU FREAKIN LISTEN TO WHINERS AND DESTROY YOUR OWN GOOD IDEAS?! Just like your armor changes to dodge (which were actually a buff) but whiners with bad math saw it as a nerf, and so you changed it! Man whats the point of reading these wishy washy Dev posts!


My whole guild and DOZENS of others I have raided with in the past few days were excited about this, NO ONE thought it was too much. But sure, a couple loud forum posters represent the community at large, gimme a break dude!

[Grailhawk]

I hope thats what this means.

LOL, sad to see hope miss placed.

[Seikojin]

You are still the same power as before the EXACT SAME POWER.. a nerf is A REDUCTION of that power... what do you guys not understand your power has not been reduced... power outside of that that you are using is being raised.. nothing more nothing less. The best and the ONLY thing that you can complain about a ld or blitz nerf is that its a proxy nerf by power distribution... and that is not a nerf. Blitz is tied DIRECTLY to ld, it cant be twisted, it can only be taken or not taken. So ld gets buffed and blitz well lets look at it say at 10 stacks...

stack.. now... after
1........25%...160%
2........50%....170%
3........75%...180%
4........100%..190%
5........125%..200%
6........150%..210%
7........175%..220%
8........200%..230%
9........225%..240%
10......250%..250%

So at stacks one to 9 of blitz.... IT WILL BE MORE POWERFUL IN THE NEW VERSION THAN CURRENT... and at stack 10 it will be even.... oh look NO BLITZ NERF..... game over.. argue against it all you will theres the numbers above.

The kicker the absolute and final nail in the blitz nerf coffin is this.... if you dont even take blitz.. ld is better off than it was before... hows that for a kick to the blitz nerf mythology huh??

I am not arguing against it. I like the melee power plans. However, I was just explaining the viewpoint people would have in saying this is a nerf to blitz.

[Aelonwy]

LOL, sad to see hope miss placed.

If its sad why are you laughing? Or was that mirth mixed with resignation?

[Grailhawk]

Or was that mirth mixed with resignation?

Exactly, just amused anyone still has hope.

[Mryal]

I think Blitz should be removed personally and a more party friendly epic moment put in. I said this when Blitz was previewed 4 years ago and I say this now. It is not party friendly and it is about E-peen. I see no reason why you changed Blitz back a bit here. It still will be the most popular melee epic destiny from what I can tell other then divine crusader. Primal Avater, Fury for melee, shadowdancer, grandmaster all will be second fiddle.

Yep.so true.
I feel like i wasted my time here.I tried to point out that even with the other changes, people will still go for LD for blitz, now blitz is even more OP and wont require the kills to charge.No real reason to use another melee ED at all.

Not sure what turbine's goal is here tbh.

Sev heres a personal note for you= WHY DO YOU FREAKIN LISTEN TO WHINERS AND DESTROY YOUR OWN GOOD IDEAS?! Just like your armor changes to dodge (which were actually a buff) but whiners with bad math saw it as a nerf, and so you changed it! Man whats the point of reading these wishy washy Dev posts!

Thats exactly what i thought too lol.I guess theres enough people beign carried by blitz all over.
Hey maybe we should massively start a dumb math error rumor that this will actualy nerf blitz instead, kinda like what people did to the dodge changes you mentioned.Reverse psychology, you know?

LOL, sad to see hope miss placed.

What makes me sad is that turbine is deciding to listen to people with 'forum/ddo fame' instead of people providing reasonable arguements.Whats even more sad is that they got this 'fame' beign carried by blitz

[Systern]

I'd guess their testing included running an EN and EH quest, realized exactly how trivial the content became and decided to nerf the numbers.

Top Dog is still top dog, easier for multiple people to use in a group. Buff. Easier to maintain on the stupid Mountain-o-HP Sacks o meat red and purple names. Buff. Can't play air guitar and Blitz from the first mob. Nerf, sorta, but that was stupid before.

Every Melee destiny that was poo before remains poo - Forever in the shadow of Top Dog.

Levelling from 20 to 28 still feels pointless. +5 melee power isn't going to be rewarding enough to get noticed. Levelling isn't like winning the lottery, it's like watching compound interest grow.

New plans to nerf SUPA-OMFG-OP Bucklers are still in place.


This summary about right? Sev?

[Cetus]

So they go from balancing other Melee destinies to make them fun to play and level, and then backpedal making Blitz once again far superior, and you are happy.

You're really good at pigeon holing things and insisting nothing changes for the better in this game.

What?

Ok, first things first: Regardless of how the devs attempt to balance things out, there will always be someone with the view that "it sucks". So, nothing they do will please 100% of the commenters here.

So, lets compare the three scenarios. I'll call scenario 1 today's status quo. Scenario 2 the first change proposed by sev, and scenario 3 this most recent suggestion.

In scenario 1, blitz has a very stupid charging mechanic, I think we all agree. It also does far better damage than other trees that are offered to melees. This includes crusader, sentinel, grandmaster, shadow dancer, and to a lesser extent fury (fury shot competes quite well with blitz I think, especially in quests that make it hard to keep it up).

In scenario 2, everybody effectively gained 6 stacks of blitz. The good thing about this is that these aforementioned alternate melee trees now received a substantial increase in power, blitz has been relatively reduced in power (note, the absolute power is not changed, the relative power is dramatically changed). This has been a cause for concern because content is easy enough that it doesn't warrant a free 6 charges of blitz for everyone. The charging animations was also removed, which was a good thing.

In scenario 3, the other melee trees now have an effective 3 blitz charges given to them, which brings them up in relative power compared to scenario 1, but not as much as in scenario 2. Blitz is STILL reduced in its relative power compared to scenario 1, but not by such a large margin as in scenario 2. In return, I also suggested that this increase in relative power versus scenario 2 should be matched with the opportunity cost of still landing the killing blow to keep it charged, so it would be less powerful in situations where mobs aren't available.

I think this is a fair and reasonable way to handle our current problems. We essentially have a toned down version of sev initial proposal, its a middle ground between our current situation and the initial proposal. I think this is better.

[Grailhawk]

If you are reducing innate epic Melee Power then reduce Blitz Melee Power by the same amount.

75 Innate Epic = 50 Blitz

The original 3/5 innate 2/5 Blitz split was correct do not adjust the ratio.

60/40 is fair the current 25/75 is not it put too much emphasis on blitz.

[Aelonwy]

If its going to be almost always active they really do need to ...and I know i'm going to get flack for this.... reduce some of the ultimate power of blitz. Almost always active is not an epic moment thats an epic kilosecond?

[Correlan]

So, instead of letting players test with the new (old) changes to melee combat, and actually give you feedback based on actual game play, you 'test' internally and decide to change it before even putting it on Lama. Sounds to me like you are catering to a few vocal forum players than the rest of the community. While I'm actually posting on this change, can you answer why you wish to exclude swashbucklers who use bucklers, from taking shield mastery and improved shield mastery feats? It's not as if they are getting them for free.

[Cetus]

So, instead of letting players test with the new (old) changes to melee combat, and actually give you feedback based on actual game play, you 'test' internally and decide to change it before even putting it on Lama. Sounds to me like you are catering to a few vocal forum players than the rest of the community. While I'm actually posting on this change, can you answer why you wish to exclude swashbucklers who use bucklers, from taking shield mastery and improved shield mastery feats? It's not as if they are getting them for free.

Disagree, the only thing we need to test as far as damage is concerned is to make sure that melee power translates directly from the % based bonuses we have now. The actual spreading around of blitz damage among innates and epic levels doesn't really need testing, we know that getting 6 stacks of blitz under the first proposal will be a hell of a lot more damage, there's nothing to test there.

Sev didn't change the melee power implementation itself, which is what I'd like to test, he's just revising his draft on how much of blitzes power should be distributed among the cores of destiny trees and epic levels. This doesn't need testing.

[Cetus]

If its going to be almost always active they really do need to ...and I know i'm going to get flack for this.... reduce some of the ultimate power of blitz. Almost always active is not an epic moment thats an epic kilosecond?

I think the blitz charge on kill effect should remain. This provides a limitation during boss fights, where I think the other destiny's have a chance to excel.

[Pandir]

I'm ok with the melee power reduction 75 is much more sane than 150 but with 175% extra damage LD is gonna be the go to ED again.

Either bite the bullet and nerf it or it needs to fall off. Make it like fury something like 1:30 minutes active every 3 minutes or such.

[xoowak]

I think the blitz charge on kill effect should remain. This provides a limitation during boss fights, where I think the other destiny's have a chance to excel.

More importantly, it limits the total amount of stacks in the party. If giving everyone 6 stack-equivalents as per the original proposal was overpowered, this new proposal to let everyone run with 10 stacks is even worse, and more limiting since they have to be in LD.

[Cetus]

More importantly, it limits the total amount of stacks in the party. If giving everyone 6 stack-equivalents as per the original proposal was overpowered, this new proposal to let everyone run with 10 stacks is even worse, and more limiting since they have to be in LD.

I agree, the on-kill effect was a nice limitation to the power it gives. although the new porposal isn't 10 stacks from blitz itself - its more like 7, but I guess you meant 10 total. Either way, I don't think its a good idea to simply let blitz charge based on attacking something.