Armor Up - Developer Diary #2

[Severlin]

Sooooo...

You're dropping the bit that had me really excited for melees, considering that I've never in my life blitzed and have never had any intention of doing so?

Yeah, shoulda seen that coming.

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Sev~

[patang01]

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Sev~

So then blitzing in of itself provides 175?

[Mahalko128]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

You changed it from Remove to Reduce, woohoo!

[Aelonwy]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

*snip* nevermind saw your correction. Makes much more sense.

[UurlockYgmeov]

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Sev~

so... if you want massive amounts of dps - nothing changes - use the same destinies. IWTNSATO (in with the new, same as the old)

[Thumbed_Servant]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are dropping the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

HOLY 360 Batman!

I am always concerned with power creep in the game, and it did seem the Melee Power was adding power to all other melee destinies outside of the Master's Blitz users. That said, if you are going to drop the melee power mechanic, then you should also drop the power of Master's Blitz so that it is not THE choice for melee. You all have always said that you want more than one option to be viable...this 360 degree turn around will make Master's Blitz THE only option for melee's that makes any sense. Please, even if you make it so that it can be used more often with less difficulty you need also to lessen it's potency. This looks like a cave in to the Master's Blitz lovers who are complaining "Master's Blitz won't be so special if you give other melee destinies more power." There is a difference between listening to your audience and listening to the choir about their songs. You seemed to be going for more balance among melee destinies while making Master's Blitz more party friendly...now you are just making Master's Blitz more powerful by making it useable all the time.

If we nerfed all of the top performing builds we'd still have no way to scale up static damage effects into the epic levels, which is the whole point of melee power.

Sev~

And this? The ability to scale up static damage effects into the epic levels? How will you accomplish this now? Will you accomplish this at all?

EDIT

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Sev~

Holy bad phrasing: Ok, this makes more sense. But, as patang01 says above,

So then blitzing in of itself provides 175?

Will you be reducing the melee power rating of master's blitz?

[Nascoe]

You changed it from Remove to Reduce, woohoo!

The change in there is just in making the intention clearer, dropping was meant to say "dropping from the previous level we presented here to a lower lvl" not dropping as in dropping this completely out of the change (or at least that is how I understand Sevs post above). Good to get that clear though as its quite a difference!

[bbqzor]

We are dropping the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels.

Okay so.... what exactly is the plan now. This seems to rather dramatically alter the content of the OP. Can you give us more information other than "we repealed virtually all of the new system this thread proposed"... because thats how it sounds to me.

We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit.

From what, its current live version? The 125 melee power version you posted? Your statement has no context to evaluate.

With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

This is actually annoying to read. Its point was never to be good against long boss fights. Long boss fights are an incredible minority of the game. Furthermore, you specifically said boss hp scaling is being reduced... thats going to make it even MORE of a minority.

Why then, would you change the focus of the ability to a situation which plainly doesnt come up very often? Its much more appealing to have a destiny good at clearing trash, as blitz is currently, because thats what we are doing most of the time. By a huge margin.

Look, Im all for changing it around some. But do it for the right reasons. This is not the right reasons. And having multiple guys running it? That was already mentioned before, with the changes to having it scale via hits not kills. That has nothing to do with changing the focus off trash onto bosses.

.........

Look, you may need to make a new OP sized post here. We now know nothing about how melee power is going to be incorporated, and only that blitz is starting to sound like its being nerfed. You cant cue it up quickly, only over time, and the focus shifts to long boss fights with many players using it over trash clearing... who cares. We dont all want to be in blitz again, thats why we want other comparable options. You are missing the boat that sailed in the OP.

We need a lot more explanation on these kinds of things. A few sentences invalidating the OP and 20 pages of discussion doesnt match up. If you dont have the info yet, fine, but say so and then keep us in the loop. I rather feel discarded... one of the only appealing melee destinies is being dramatically changed, with no idea on how the other shifts will be handled. Not inspiring /

[bbqzor]

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Okay, theres some specifics then.... what about blitz. This is critical to get right for a good many reasons, and right now, it doesnt sound right. What exactly is the plan here.

[maddong]

Reduced. Sorry. I said dropping meaning "dropping the overall melee power bonus" but what I wrote isn't clear.

Each epic level gives 5, each innate gives 5 for a total of 75 Melee Power.

Sev~

The thing is if we just went by Developer Diary #1 and Developer Diary #3 I would roll up either a 20 paladin melee (if you fix the stacking crits) or a 14 paladin/6 rogue melee (if you don't fix the stacking crits). I would play it with 0 melee power.

Having a baseline 75% extra damage for melees vs ranged just means no one will play a ranged build anymore AND the game will be ridiculously easy.

If a blitzing melee is still 250% extra damage then you shouldn't change the blitz mechanic. Groups will just steam roll content with everyone blitzing. There won't be any challenge to the game.

I'm fine leaving blitz the way it is because people cry if they can't use it as an easy button to solo (I take half damage and do 350% damage). If we are going to have an easy button in group play then the game isn't going to be any fun.

[Recared]

The thing is, there will always be a FOTM min-maxed build, regardless of how many balance changes go through. I do want to see every destiny become equally viable, but that does not mean that every destiny needs to do exactly the same dps as legendary dreadnought. In fact, if every destiny does do the same dps as dreadnought, that would make it the worst destiny because it doesn't even offer anything but damage.

Absolutely true. That is the point. Perfect balance is neither realistic or the goal in a d20 DnD system or in DDO. To achieve that there are two options: a) Every possible build does exactly the same (in terms of dps/defense) or b) Trinity system so typical of many of the mmorpgs out there, from which we always were differentiated through our beloved DnD mechanics.

The general consensus seemed to that melee needed some help with the incoming damage numbers in ee -> defense. This is being addressed, but now we increase the general melee damage output at least around 150% -> x2.5 damage? And that in combination with the extremely powerful new weaponry? Yes everybody will move from LD to another destiny that offers more in terms of versatility/defense. Even if it means -10% dps.

[Severlin]

So then blitzing in of itself provides 175?

Yes.

Sev~

[Grailhawk]

Yes.

Sev~

So the goal of diversifying the EDs that melee players choose had been abandoned or will each destiny have an over hall?

[FAQ]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

Bravo on the communication! And on your attempt to change things. I just hope you don't go crazy with all the forum whining and the constant cries for buffs/nerf s. Good luck to you sir.

[Varinon]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

I almost commented on how bad of an idea this is was until I re-read it as "reducing the bonus" not "removing the bonus". Reducing should be okay as long as it's 50 melee power or less. It's a little sad to see that people who couldn't realize that Master's Blitz wasn't nerfed (it was actually buffed at anything under max stacks--still is but less so now) had this influence.

Ironic how people crying about the supposed 'nerf' actually caused themselves to get nerfed.

Breakdown of blitz stats on live vs. old changes:

OLD
1 Stack: +25% Damage
2 Stacks: +50% Damage
3 Stacks: +75% Damage
4 Stacks: +100% Damage
5 Stacks: +125% Damage
6 Stacks: +150% Damage
7 Stacks: +175% Damage
8 Stacks: +200% Damage
9 Stacks: +225% Damage
10 Stacks: +250% Damage

NEW (Before revision--assuming level 28)
1 Stack: +160% Damage (+135% over live)
2 Stacks: +170% Damage (+120% over live)
3 Stacks: +180% Damage (+105% over live)
4 Stacks: +190% Damage (+90% over live)
5 Stacks: +200% Damage (+75% over live)
6 Stacks: +210% Damage (+60% over live)
7 Stacks: +220% Damage (+45% over live)
8 Stacks: +230% Damage (+30% over live)
9 Stacks: +240% Damage (+15% over live)
10 Stacks: +250% Damage (+0% over live)

Edit: A little disappointed to find that the overall nerf to melee power was 75, which is greater than 50 (Sev you post too fast--posted twice while I was writing this. Speed demon!) New table below for those curious.

NEW (After revision--assuming level 28)
1 Stack: +92.5% Damage (+67.5% over live)
2 Stacks: +110% Damage (+60% over live)
3 Stacks: +127.5% Damage (+52.5% over live)
4 Stacks: +145% Damage (+45% over live)
5 Stacks: +162.5% Damage (+37.5% over live)
6 Stacks: +180% Damage (+30% over live)
7 Stacks: +197.5% Damage (+22.5% over live)
8 Stacks: +215% Damage (+15% over live)
9 Stacks: +232.5% Damage (+7.5% over live)
10 Stacks: +250% Damage (+0% over live)

[legendkilleroll]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

Really dont like this, everytime things get changed when its not even a massive outcry, nothing like the 12 tokens were everyone was complaining.

Dont know how having Blitz easier to build and keep running is a good thing, just going to force more melee's into LD, when you should be trying to do the opposite

[Cetus]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

I think this is a much better change

A little modification I'd add: Maybe keep the on-kill charge effect to provide some kind of opportunity cost for its power. Removal of the swinging-at-mid-air stupidity is all we need I think. This will certainly be a MUCH needed improvement.

And, all other melee's get 3 effective permanent blitz charges rather than 6, I like it

[Nascoe]

So the goal of diversifying the EDs that melee players choose had been abandoned or will each destiny have an over hall?

If I read it correctly then that goal is not abandoned, just the power creep is toned down a bit with giving 5 melee power per core (for the designated melee destinies, i.e. up to 30 instead of up to 60) and 5 per epic lvl (for a total of 45 at lvl 28 instead of previously proposed max. 90)

[Bridge_Dweller]

Based on player feedback and our own internal testing:

We are reducing the bonus to melee power from the Epic Destiny innate abilities and epic levels. We bumped up Master's Blitz a bit. With the changes to Master's Blitz it is now effective against long boss fights and it is much easier for multiple melees to all have it running.

Sev~

This is terrible, you should cave in like this.

[PermaBanned]

We are currently looking at top performers. In the future when we look at ranged builds in more depth we can discuss under performing ranged builds.

Sev~

A number of us feel that - especially with Turbines track record of leaving business unfinished - it's a mistake to implement Melee Power now, and Ranged Power later.

Is there a definate time table for implementing Ranged Power (ie "the Update following the implementation of Melee Power") or is it on the "soon aka eventually get around to it... maybe" list like updated Cannith crafting and loot afixes?