Armor Up - Developer Diary #1

[Thar]

That's fine. It is still going away.

doesn't make it a sensible change or smart move for all of us. Would you rather have new light shields as loot or new heavy/tower/bucker... more than the evasion builds will lose out.

[Thar]

Seen it and it's been available here since last week and I am not impressed saying 5E does it is as big a minus for me as saying 4e does it.





Woooot my 20,000th post

gratz...

If that was their design reason.. and i highly doubt it is... I'd be shocked that they would move any part of the game back towards PNP instead of what works in MMO land... We've all been complaining it's less and less like DND.

[harry-pancreas]

Why is it that people feel the need to have things handed to them on a silver platter?? Seriously...do you just want everyone to have all the best items in the game with no work done to actually loot or create them? Please do not make the uber/best Orchard loot easy to get...leave something for us to grind for...

this a million times.
Is not just work or not work, it just feels more rewarding when you get that piece of loot you've been looking for a while. If it drops at the 3rd run or so, meh, as i get it i'm thinking what comes next instead of taking 5 mins to be happy.

[harry-pancreas]

Prefer the idea I posted earlier of having mithril or addy type augments that'll move a shield up or down a category depending on which one you slot. There are no GS, TF or even dragonscale shields so not much in the way of customization, we're left with named or lootgen for the most part(still no MA bucklers). Since all shield types will now have their own niche the existing shields will be much more stratifying, so previously where my heavy armoured paladin could use an Epic Swashbuckler and just lose some DR and AC and receive all those nice mutations now I'll be gimping myself a lot harder. Swashbucklers and light shield users don't even have a choice, use one of the very very few shields in those categories or none at all.

An augment would mean they're still the best in their default position since you get to use the slot for something more powerful, and you can always keep some of the bad without giving any of the good. So a tower going to heavy may keep the MDB but not the PRR/MRR/AC, a heavy going to light might lose a lot of AC/DR, etc.

great great idea, the augments

[Nodoze]

great great idea, the augments

Agreed. Interesting idea.

One thing I thought of and wanted to post on just in case it was missed (and no I didn't go back and read all the posts in all the threads) was for the developers to make sure that non-fleshies are reasonably on par with fleshies in the AC pass...

I am not sure if it is good to have to lose/spend feats for medium/heavy armor for WarForged/BladeForged but regardless I would like those races to have on par implementations of Medium & Heavy armor after the pass (especially if they have to spend feats to get them)...

[Gljosh]

Prefer the idea I posted earlier of having mithril or addy type augments that'll move a shield up or down a category depending on which one you slot. There are no GS, TF or even dragonscale shields so not much in the way of customization, we're left with named or lootgen for the most part(still no MA bucklers). Since all shield types will now have their own niche the existing shields will be much more stratifying, so previously where my heavy armoured paladin could use an Epic Swashbuckler and just lose some DR and AC and receive all those nice mutations now I'll be gimping myself a lot harder. Swashbucklers and light shield users don't even have a choice, use one of the very very few shields in those categories or none at all.

An augment would mean they're still the best in their default position since you get to use the slot for something more powerful, and you can always keep some of the bad without giving any of the good. So a tower going to heavy may keep the MDB but not the PRR/MRR/AC, a heavy going to light might lose a lot of AC/DR, etc.

But what about alchemical shields? You know that item that takes two Cannith raids (dozens of times) that most people never play...

[deathblaze]

In addition, characters who are proficient with shields can also use the larger shields for defense against magical attacks that would normally require a Reflex saving throw. Instead of (or in addition to) using your Reflex saving throw to mitigate the damage you can deflect the damage off your shield. This is represented by increasing your Physical and Magical Resist Ratings against those types of attacks when using a shield. Note that you gain this additional mitigation whether you make your Reflex saving throw or not.

Physical and Magical Resist Rating multiplier against magical attacks that normally allow a Reflex saving throw.
Buckler: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Light Shield: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Heavy Shield: 2.0
Tower Shield: 2.0

This means that characters with heavier armor and/or heavy or tower shields have an alternate mitigation against large area of effect attacks to help them compete in high level content with characters who use Evasion.


Resistance Rating Caps and Evasion
In addition, there are new or changed caps on certain scores based on the armor you are wearing.

Buckler: None
Light Shield: None
Heavy Shield: No Evasion feat
Tower Shield: No Evasion feat

Magical Resistance Rating Cap for armor

Robes or Outfit: 100
Light Armor: 200
Medium Armor: No cap
Heavy Armor: No cap

Note that we have designed this so characters cannot gain both Evasion and the shield bonus coupled with high levels of resistance rating. This is intentional, as a character with both would be too powerful.


Sev~

Instead of doing this ridiculous "No Evasion feat" thing, how about having the Evasion feat negating said rating multipliers instead?

On a side note, will we ever be able to deconstruct shadowscale/dragonscale armours?
I'm sure a bulk of people would like to be able to trade in their current armours for a different type once these changes come to pass and having to regrind all the scales is really depressing.
Heck, even getting a reasonable percentage back to lessen the blow helps.

Also, I've mentioned this before, but the Purple Dragon Shield looks nothing like a tower shield! It needs a beefier new model!

[Thar]

Instead of doing this ridiculous "No Evasion feat" thing, how about having the Evasion feat negating said rating multipliers instead?

On a side note, will we ever be able to deconstruct shadowscale/dragonscale armours?
I'm sure a bulk of people would like to be able to trade in their current armours for a different type once these changes come to pass and having to regrind all the scales is really depressing.
Heck, even getting a reasonable percentage back to lessen the blow helps.

Also, I've mentioned this before, but the Purple Dragon Shield looks nothing like a tower shield! It needs a beefier new model!

yes to all the above.

[B0ltdrag0n]

doesn't make it a sensible change or smart move for all of us. Would you rather have new light shields as loot or new heavy/tower/bucker... more than the evasion builds will lose out.

I would like them to design loot for things that are not currently used to make them attractive options. Which is what you are backhandedly describing.

[Bannith]

A fireball is not otherworldly it is an element within existence. Everyone has experienced fire. I highly doubt most people have come in contact with magical anti matter whose sole purpose is turning something into nothing. This is besides the point though. Most untyped like Disintegrate are fortitude saves which a tank will have a large amount of, and if they aren't they are force based which are rendered useless vs any Level 1 shield spell. A spell that goes well into the 30+ minute mark and can be cast on any tank that needs it.

Well when u start spawning magical fire outta thin air get on the news so I can see it. And you kindda prove my point with the words "magical antimatter" it is in fact magical like all spells regardless of end result its all magic in the end and should all be treated the same in the end. Also Shield is a self buff meaning you need either access to the spell, UMD or a clicky maybe you have that but this isn't for you specifically its for everyone and shouldn't only include the elitists who will be buffed regardless of how they work this new defense type. There are also more than simply magic missiles to worry about this includes all untyped bane etc. (maybe alignment?) spell damage. Additional force spells arcane blast arcane bolt tactical detention none of which are affected by shield btw. I may be missing a few but I know for a fact arcane bolt can be painful when cast by those eyes in the madness chain. These spells have almost no protection for any reasonable amount of time as it is whats the harm in letting a tank absorb some of it. Sure radiant force field works for 30seconds but that typically doesn't last and the only force absorption is on a cloak that's built for a necromancer All I'm trying to say is they should simply look for a better path than allowing some magic sources to simply bypass MRR its literally built to absorb magic and should behave as such.

[RedHost]

With the next update the game has a reason, even if it is a niche build, for every shield type to be useful.

Bucklers are useful to Swashbuckler bards.
Small Shields are useful to Evasion tanks.
Heavy shields are useful to tanks looking to save a feat.
Tower shields are useful to heavy tanks.

This would be great, if this were a system being designed for a new game. Instead, it essentially breaks things because of the lack of any real Small Shields. And it seems fairly safe to assume, given Turbine's record on such things, that adding back support for the new system will never actually happen.

We have endeavored to add good end game small shields to the new Orchard content.

Excellent. And what about the entire rest of the game?


EDIT: Same with the PRR/MRR changes, really. It is not a bad system. If it were implemented before content was designed I am sure that it would work out quite well. But instead it is even *further* trivializing the already very highly degraded level of challenge in the existing content.

[Annyee]

To address some concernes about the PRR/MRR caps for monks I have an idea. While in Mountain Stance increase the cap for PRR/MRR. Example: T1 Stance cap = Robe Cap, T2 stance = Light Armor cap, T3 stance = Med Armor Cap, T4 stance = Heavy armor cap. Or something like that. You gave us a Monk stance to tank in it should remain competitive. Should a monk in wind stance have a PRR/MRR of 305? Probably not but a earth monk should be able to hit high PRR/MRR.

[Nodoze]

To address some concernes about the PRR/MRR caps for monks I have an idea. While in Mountain Stance increase the cap for PRR/MRR. Example: T1 Stance cap = Robe Cap, T2 stance = Light Armor cap, T3 stance = Med Armor Cap, T4 stance = Heavy armor cap. Or something like that. You gave us a Monk stance to tank in it should remain competitive. Should a monk in wind stance have a PRR/MRR of 305? Probably not but a earth monk should be able to hit high PRR/MRR.

To make it reasonably on par, they should be required to both be in Earth stance and then have to allocate AP in a tanky Enhancement Tree. One of the existing trees could be adjusted to support that option (maybe a line going straight up through the tiers).

[searcher15]

What, another new "must have" effects? We already have like 4 diferent bonus types for single ability, it's going a little overboard with new bonus types every update. Need more equipment slots.
"Ranged Power [...] This rating won't be used much in our first set of chancges"
Or nvm, there won't be anything to put in after all.

Armor PRR pass - what about docents? Can I at least have my 3AC from composite plating back? And a bit of PRR? I find it crazy that all races can get PRR by simply putting on light armor, but wf has to spend a feat. I would think that creatures of wood and metal would be more sturdy than fleshies, but alas all we get is 5% asf.

Whats the point of MRR if we already have resistance to elemental dmg (plus some abltaive protection for other types)? These don't scale well in epic content, cause they aren't % absorbtion, but then, we already have % absorbtion items. This will create another, 4th layer of protection, making system even more complicated. Maybe it's time to say "enough" and look at scaling itself? It's already hard enough to calculate when you have protection from x, resistance to x and absorbtion of x. (If I have 50 protection, 50 resistance, and 50 absorbtion, how much dmg does a 500dmg fireball do? Anyone knows?)

[XodousRoC]

To make it reasonably on par, they should be required to both be in Earth stance and then have to allocate AP in a tanky Enhancement Tree. One of the existing trees could be adjusted to support that option (maybe a line going straight up through the tiers).

Shintao already has built-in earth stance support. Instead of forcing a multiclass, any required enhancement changes should reside within that tree.

[XodousRoC]

Armor PRR pass - what about docents? Can I at least have my 3AC from composite plating back? And a bit of PRR? I find it crazy that all races can get PRR by simply putting on light armor, but wf has to spend a feat. I would think that creatures of wood and metal would be more sturdy than fleshies, but alas all we get is 5% asf.

Having to spend a feat hurts, but this also introduces a system that potentially rewards medium armor wearers. Where's our medium armor option? Not only do docents need to be addressed along with the armor pass, but a medium option would be well received under the new system.

[Shadowaras]

cmon u capping evasion for shield wielders all those splash 2 monks tanks go out of the door ... u murder me both my tanks r evasionbuild \\\

[Zurrander]

cmon u capping evasion for shield wielders all those splash 2 monks tanks go out of the door ... u murder me both my tanks r evasionbuild \\\

You right that this will hurt a few builds, but we seem to be the minority. And furthermore, its set in stone already. The best you can do (and I say you, because I've made my peace with it) it to start a virtual riot after the change goes live and get it put back the way it should be. That being said, the Devs could get me to use small shields willingly if some new ones are made that cater to my play-style (I.E. riposte/Dodge/Reflex/No. Fail Saves).

[Scraap]

You right that this will hurt a few builds, but we seem to be the minority. And furthermore, its set in stone already. The best you can do (and I say you, because I've made my peace with it) it to start a virtual riot after the change goes live and get it put back the way it should be. That being said, the Devs could get me to use small shields willingly if some new ones are made that cater to my play-style (I.E. riposte/Dodge/Reflex/No. Fail Saves).

Personally, I'm getting weary of regrinding and respeccing just to tread water due to knee-jerk over-reactions, so no fits planned to be pitched here, just that much closer to drifting off permanently.

[4tonmantis]

I appreciate that the Devs are trying to shake things up. The thing is, I was drawn to DDO back when all of my knowledge of the DnD systems could directly apply. Things are getting added, changed, removed, added back, changed, etc whatever. It is extremely annoying. I also was a Star Wars Galaxies player back in it's day.. and they had a number of controversial changes as well.

My problem with the way these changes are being handled is, it heavy-handedly forces players to re-evaluate what they're doing, have been doing, and plan on doing. Moreover, it even invalidates gear that we spend a LOT of time grinding away to get. The current end-game (that's a moving target these days) exists in expansions. So even if we're VIP we still pay out of pocket for access to this content (in most cases for access to the raids so we can have access to the loot). So we buy an xpac, spend hours on end grinding for this stuff then boom.. it's up in the air as to whether or not it's something that will be usable or something that will fit our playstyle etc. Now, moreover, the content itself (the damage from traps and the way creatures fight and deal damage) is all being changed in a very large way.

I get that there has to be design space.. I really hate that phrase sometimes.. especially in a legacy game that previously had band-aid fixes over gaping problems. Now, instead of fixing the system, which was DnD, it's simply being ripped out and replaced with something that feels like one of those mass-produced Asian side-scrollers. Again, I came to this game as a PnP old-school DnD player. I grew up learning about THAC0, Bend Bars Lift Gates stats, and Non-weapon Proficiencies and later the whole d20 system. I came to Dungeons and Dragons online for Dungeons and Dragons. All of these new changes.. maybe they make for a good game.. but DnD it aint.

TL : DR - I'm tired of my gear becoming redundant, obsolete, useless, or anything other than what it was when I did the grind for it. Likewise, I am disgruntled with the further departure from the core mechanics of Dungeons and Dragons. Even barring that, I'm tired of having to re-evaluate what my character is supposed to be because someone decides to shake things up.