Armor Up - Developer Diary #1

[Delacroix21]

Greetings,


Melee Power
The new attribute is essentially the melee version of Spellpower. Melee Power will not only increase the damage of straight weapon damage, but certain static effects from enhancements will now scale up with Melee Power allowing them to be more useful in epic levels. Melee Power will be gained from certain enhancements and from some melee epic destinies. Our plan is to have future loot include Melee Power. This rating increases melee attacks by the following formula.

(100 + Rating) / 100

As we rebalance static effects found in enhancements we will make these scale with Melee Power so they increase as you gain power and new loot. As an example, several Paladin damage sources that were previously static will now scale with Melee Power.


Sev~

Sev, will this also scale weapon enchantments like holy IV, etc? Currently these are all bypassed for weapons that just do better straight damage or have unique enhanced crit profiles, and this change would make them relevant again. If so I LOVE it!

[Seikojin]

im more reading than posting in these threads because im too dumb for DDO math formulas. what sticks out is Melee and Ranged Power. sounds awfully like a damage meter ive seen suggested on the forums before. it would be nice to see how much dps I can dish out, but I fear the drama that will ensue.

The nice thing about melee and ranged power is they can cut down on the tacked on effects, which reduces network packet size and ultimately lag.

[darthhento]

How about you don't implement Melee and Ranged Power. That would be super awesome.

[Thar]

In addition, characters who are proficient with shields can also use the larger shields for defense against magical attacks that would normally require a Reflex saving throw. Instead of (or in addition to) using your Reflex saving throw to mitigate the damage you can deflect the damage off your shield. This is represented by increasing your Physical and Magical Resist Ratings against those types of attacks when using a shield. Note that you gain this additional mitigation whether you make your Reflex saving throw or not.

Physical and Magical Resist Rating multiplier against magical attacks that normally allow a Reflex saving throw.
Buckler: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Light Shield: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Heavy Shield: 2.0
Tower Shield: 2.0

This means that characters with heavier armor and/or heavy or tower shields have an alternate mitigation against large area of effect attacks to help them compete in high level content with characters who use Evasion.


Sev~

Does this mean the previously announced nerf to heavy shield evasion builds that was previously announced is not going into effect?

[Coldin]

How about you don't implement Melee and Ranged Power. That would be super awesome.

Please provide some basis for your request.

[Ebondevil]

I need to ask this but will Docents be compatible with this mechanic? When PRR came up Docents were thrown aside with smaller bonuses that desconsider your BAB, even though we have to spend a feat to get a generic weaker layout. There are people in this game getting 32% dodge with a light armor and yet a Mithral Body has a MDB of 5, I can't possibly make 5 become 32.

I believe they mentioned in a Lamma thread that Docents would benefit

No Body feat = Robe eg no PRR/MRR
Mithril = Light Armour
Adamant = Heavy Armour

Though Really No Body Feat should get Light armour (or it should loose the arcane spell failure for having armour...), and Mithril get Medium armour if they do it right.

[Mercureal]

My immediate reaction to the melee and ranged power mechanics is not extreme enthusiasm, but I'll withhold critical comments until there's more details on the proposals. Hopefully it will involve existing effects and systems being converted wholesale to the new mechanic, and not something completely new that makes current equipment and systems outdated.

[Nayus]

These are not simply pieces of cloth that characters wear for decoration, they are magically enchanted items, most of which offer Armor bonuses.

Why can't heavy armor and adamatine docents be enchanted as well?

It's "heavy" because it has more magic in it

[Scrabbler]

and Mithril get Medium armour if they do it right.

Mith body should be the defensive benefits of Medium but the limitations of light, just like how a Mith Breastplate should be a Light Armor that's as strong as Med.

[Severlin]

I need to ask this but will Docents be compatible with this mechanic? When PRR came up Docents were thrown aside with smaller bonuses that desconsider your BAB, even though we have to spend a feat to get a generic weaker layout. There are people in this game getting 32% dodge with a light armor and yet a Mithral Body has a MDB of 5, I can't possibly make 5 become 32.

Excellent changes but I would like to see Warforgeds (and Bladeforgeds) actually making some use of it. A ranger or a fighter can simply equip robes or light armors at will but we have to spend feats on it.

This isn't even a powergaming issue, Zeus and Cetuses are blitzers and will get max dodge.

Yes.

Mithral Body will be treated as Light armor and provide 10 PRR.
Adamantine Body will be treated as Heavy Armor and provide 30 PRR.

Sev~

[Ovrad]

I'm really concerned about this melee/ranged power thing.

Numbers are already way out of hand in epic elites, please don't ramp it up even more by adding yet another system that has nothing to do with DnD.

[Hoglum]

Please provide some basis for your request.

There's no need for it & it's not in line with Dungeons and Dragons in any way.

Melee power comes from a combination of skill & strength, both of which are already accounted for.

Why monkey with things and add melee power and ranged power? There's no need for it since both melee and ranged "power" are already in the game.

In addition, with feats, skills and enhancements already spread thin, if "Ranged Power" becomes a large part of ranged damage, how is character not specialized in ranged combat supposed to contribute in ranged combat?

Any fighter should be able to whip out his/her trusty bow and help in such situations. As the numbers get bigger it may get to the point you can't switch between weapons any more (or at least simply not be worth it). Personally, I don't expect to contribute much with a bow or throwing weapon when I'm not specced for it but if the numbers get much larger it may no longer even be worth swapping weapons. That kills another aspect of D&D that's always been great.

[Severlin]

Hang on a minute...Melee and Ranged POWER?

Are you kidding Devs? Yet another way for Elitists to lord it over casuals and newbies REALLY?

What stat is going to govern this? Strength I suppose? What of Dex, Int, Con Builds?

Are we going to get YET MORE gear we can't fit in?


What happened to the D&D in DDO?!?

These statistics do not come from attributes. They come strictly from enhancements, epic levels, and Epic Destinies.

Sev~

[Pandir]

~ Melee Power and scaling static abilities in epic elite.

Allright I'm not sure if I like the Melee and Ranged power thing, but ok I can wait and see there.
Thinking about this it never seemed doing damage is a problem to melee only survivability.
Wouldn't it make sense to only scale the Epic destiny abilities that have flat dice instead of everything ?

This point has me kinda worried though, are you saying you're gonna scale the damage of Monsters in EE too ?
I mean I don't see how the change would be specific to EE otherwise ?

[Scrabbler]

In addition, with feats, skills and enhancements already spread thin, if "Ranged Power" becomes a large part of ranged damage, how is character not specialized in ranged combat supposed to contribute in ranged combat?

Any fighter should be able to whip out his/her trusty bow and help in such situations.

DDO already does not support characters without a ranged focus (build+gear) making a noticeable contribution to a ranged fight. The damage factor is seriously off by 10x or more.

[Pandir]

These statistics do not come from attributes. They come strictly from enhancements, epic levels, and Epic Destinies.

Sev~

Well not based on attributes, you did say you planned on having it on gear in the future though.

[Severlin]

Allright I'm not sure if I like the Melee and Ranged power thing, but ok I can wait and see there.
Thinking about this it never seemed doing damage is a problem to melee only survivability.
Wouldn't it make sense to only scale the Epic destiny abilities that have flat dice instead of everything ?

This point has me kinda worried though, are you saying you're gonna scale the damage of Monsters in EE too ?
I mean I don't see how the change would be specific to EE otherwise ?

This scaling is for player abilities. Monsters won't change.

Sev~

[Severlin]

Well not based on attributes, you did say you planned on having it on gear in the future though.

Yes, it gives us additional effects to put on future gear.

Sev~

[darthhento]

Please provide some basis for your request.

Every new system that comes out breaks the game in more ways than one. We don't need new system for something that works just fine as is, both melee and ranged.

Besides, 90% of the weapon effects still get broken by random buffs, how about fixing those first?

[bbqzor]

Physical Resist Rating
The attribute is used to mitigate physical damage of all types. The game already has Physical Resist Rating. We are changing the mitigation formula of this attribute, effectively buffing its power. The new formula:
100 / (100 + Rating)
This boost will help mitigate the damage of melee enemies in Epic Elite and will help players to build characters that can survive toe to toe with those enemies.

Okay, this is generally a pretty minor boost, but a bumps a bump. This is not going to "help players survive ee"... thats like saying well getting hit for 290 instead of 300 means you can totally survive ee now. Unless you have some other changes in mind, this is kind of false advertising at best and misguided development at worst. What, exactly, is the intent here... just to buff PRR use at the upper values? Or to dramatically change how players interact with EE content?

Magical Resist Rating
This new attribute is the magical equivalent of PRR. It can be increased by wearing armor, gearing up Sheltering effects, and picking certain enhancements. This rating works on most magical effects. It will not reduce force, bane and some other special effects. The mitigation this rating provides following a similar formula as PRR.
100 / (100 + Rating)

Okay... no change from the other thread except now theres stuff it wont block. Meaning a situation where all the "we want it dangerous so it does force" lines for boss design come out. Same thing that happened to traps, poison, fom effects, etc. Its a way to build in a weakness so content can autobeat players. Is there an actual reason behind this, or is it just a way to stop people from actually having meaningful defense against everything. I still feel like its going to be too powerful, only now with obvious things its pointless against as a quick-fix workaround because its too powerful.

Melee Power ...
Ranged Power ...
In the next Armor Up developer's diary we will talk about the following topics:
Melee Power and scaling static abilities in epic elite.

I cannot help but feel this is another situation where instead of fixing the problem, you are reinventing the wheel, and it will just result in a period of drastic imbalance followed by a settling into a new situation which is largely the same as the previous one. I will reserve any actual outrage until further details emerge, but I must stress *caution*. This sounds terrible, like its going to be a project which consumes more time than you have to spend, and leaves the game worse off than it is currently. It will literally take rebalancing everything, and history has shown there is just *terrible* follow through on such things. Sigh.

Buffing Heavy Armor
We've already talked about our plans for making heavier armors and shields more effective, and we want to update you with the latest design. Wearing armor will now provide bonus mitigation by increasing your Physical Resist Rating and Magical Resist Rating. We have updated values below.
Note that the values are changed from previously announced values. This is due to the fact that the Physical Resistance Rating formula has changed to offer more mitigation for each point. With the new PRR formula these new values offer similar mitigation to those previously announced.
Physical and Magical Resist Ratings offered by armor
Robes or Outfits: No PRR, no MRR
Light Armor: 10 PRR, 10 MRR if armor has enchantments. (This is in addtion to the current PRR bonus of 2 + (BAB / 2.0) )
Medium Armor: 20 PRR, 20 MRR if armor has enchantments. (This is in addtion to the current PRR bonus of 4 + (BAB / 1.5) )
Heavy Armor: 30 PRR, 30 MRR if armor has enchantments. (This is in addtion to the current PRR bonus of 4 + BAB )

Heavy armor is currently 6+bab... is that a typo? Anyhow, this is a good move actually. Its a bit 'heavy' for heavy armor, but honestly, thats probably fine. This is a fair change.

Shields will give additional PRR and, if enchanted, MRR.
Physical and Magical Resist Ratings offered by sheilds
Buckler: None
Light Shield: 5 PRR, 5 MRR if shield has enchantments.
Heavy Shield: 10 PRR, 10 MRR if shield has enchantments.
Tower Shield: 15 PRR, 15 MRR if shield has enchantments.
In addition, characters who are proficient with shields can also use the larger shields for defense against magical attacks that would normally require a Reflex saving throw. Instead of (or in addition to) using your Reflex saving throw to mitigate the damage you can deflect the damage off your shield. This is represented by increasing your Physical and Magical Resist Ratings against those types of attacks when using a shield. Note that you gain this additional mitigation whether you make your Reflex saving throw or not.
Physical and Magical Resist Rating multiplier against magical attacks that normally allow a Reflex saving throw.
Buckler: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Light Shield: 1.0 (no additional mitigation)
Heavy Shield: 2.0
Tower Shield: 2.0

Okay... so no change to evasion qualifications at all? That is unmentioned here, and critical in evaluating this situation. Assuming evasion works as it does currently, I think heavy shields should probably drop to x1.5, placing them between light and tower. If evasion is nerfed with heavy shields, then it needs to stay as is, and additionally consider some strong words said as the idea is just terrible (again, creating a ton of work by forcing a reitemization of the entire game, which inevitably wont have any follow through and leave huge gaps of fail). I hope you just dont touch the evasion situation, but instead make heavy shields x1.5, providing some nice scaling for those willing to sink a feat in tower shield, or a benefit for fighter which gets it (and hopefully paladin shield pre granting it as they are tight on feats).

In the next Armor Up developer's diary we will talk about the following topics:
~ Updated changes to Paladin to help them be fun and competitive in Heroic and Epic Elite content.

Looking forward to this, if only to rage anyhow... but unlike all the systemic changes above, enhancements have a track record of turning out passable even when they start in a terrible place. So at least here the rage is for a good cause.

Without any concrete details and and exact integration examples, its tough to give an honest answer. But as an overall impression... the armor/shield changes are in the right place, but the prr/mrr changes are still floating in a bad place due to misplaced feelings of what it will do and built in workarounds which can nullify it at will anyhow (undermining the idea of using it to begin with). Color me okay with the armor changes, maybe okay with the shield changes (if evasion works the same and heavy shields are changed to 1.5). And just no on melee/ranged power. Just no. Capital NO.