Armor Up - Developer Diary #1

[gwonbush]

Resists are applied before percent reductions, though you didn't apply a Fire-Shield effect for another 50%. However, all this really proves is that using 3+ items to reduce damage of a certain type can greatly increase your survivability versus that type of damage.

[Qhualor]

2000 hp blast. - 74% = 520 - 33% absorb = 348.4 - 30% absorb = 243.88 - 20% absorb = 195.1 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 145.1 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

2000 hp blast. - 67% = 660 - 33% absorb = 442.2 - 30% absorb = 309.54 - 20% absorb = 247.63 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 197.63 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

seriously, this is too little. shots that would kill every other toon today will do minimal damage that can be healed with one silver flame pot or a few cure serious. This will either escalate the damage in future so that non mrr toons will instantly explode or make it easy button. we don't need or want easy button, reasonable yes... easy button go to staples... That drove off a lot of the game population post GH. if you want easy, do casual/normal. you want a challenge do ee.

the 2x is a bad idea and needs to be scaled back. 1.5 at maximum... get rid of it (and therefore the light shield nerf) put the item and other development time into fleshing out some good pally changes for the old trees (and same for stalwert defender for fighters).

non MRR toons?

Magical Resist Rating
This new attribute is the magical equivalent of PRR. It can be increased by wearing armor, gearing up Sheltering effects, and picking certain enhancements. This rating works on most magical effects. It will not reduce force, bane and some other special effects. The mitigation this rating provides following a similar formula as PRR.

100 / (100 + Rating)

[Thar]

non MRR toons?

Magical Resist Rating
This new attribute is the magical equivalent of PRR. It can be increased by wearing armor, gearing up Sheltering effects, and picking certain enhancements. This rating works on most magical effects. It will not reduce force, bane and some other special effects. The mitigation this rating provides following a similar formula as PRR.

100 / (100 + Rating)

non mrr toons i meant wiz/sorc, etc that have minimal mrr AND not the 2xshield effect.

I like the idea of giving more point to using a shield, i just think it's too much.

[PermaBanned]

73% is too much mitigation with all other sources. This will be healable with cure serious pots. is that what epic needs? no it needs to be some sort of challenge. Dont' feather it.

evasion is 100% until you miss a save which on EE is not easy button. Even EH, ie miir you can't tank that with evasion as you will sometimes miss. So light armors are giving up prr and ac to have that protection. why should heavy armor have both? some yes. not to this extent. If my cleric has 73% with aura, aborb, etc i'll be tanking dragons in firepeaks. is that good?

Since you need to be a fully defense specc'ed (nearly if not pure) Pally/Fighter Defender build, I'm not so sure your Cleric could achieve those numbers - but let's say it can: would it really have the DPS/threat gen to actually be a tank? I highly doubt it.

[PermaBanned]

2000 hp blast. - 74% = 520 - 33% absorb = 348.4 - 30% absorb = 243.88 - 20% absorb = 195.1 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 145.1 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

2000 hp blast. - 67% = 660 - 33% absorb = 442.2 - 30% absorb = 309.54 - 20% absorb = 247.63 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 197.63 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

seriously, this is too little. shots that would kill every other toon today will do minimal damage that can be healed with one silver flame pot or a few cure serious. This will either escalate the damage in future so that non mrr toons will instantly explode or make it easy button. we don't need or want easy button, reasonable yes... easy button go to staples... That drove off a lot of the game population post GH. if you want easy, do casual/normal. you want a challenge do ee.

the 2x is a bad idea and needs to be scaled back. 1.5 at maximum... get rid of it (and therefore the light shield nerf) put the item and other development time into fleshing out some good pally changes for the old trees (and same for stalwert defender for fighters).

and it will give a point to sacrificing lvl's and armor for evasion vs slapping on heavy armor and being invincible.

And everyone will be building for that maximum rate of survivability because it comes with no tradeoffs, right? "...slapping on heavy armor and becoming invincible." lol exaggerate much?

non mrr toons i meant wiz/sorc, etc that have minimal mrr AND not the 2xshield effect.

I like the idea of giving more point to using a shield, i just think it's too much.

If Arcanes want the protection, they can have it. There's the EK tree for proficiency + ASF reduction, and items/Augs for more ASF reduction.

[Thar]

Since you need to be a fully defense specc'ed (nearly if not pure) Pally/Fighter Defender build, I'm not so sure your Cleric could achieve those numbers - but let's say it can: would it really have the DPS/threat gen to actually be a tank? I highly doubt it.

ruin vs pally dps... 3-6000 dps vs pally sword and board. it wouldn't be a comparison. The cleric gets some of the same dps buffs a pally does and now has smites, etc from warpriest.

high chr also assists intim on either build.

[Thar]

And everyone will be building for that maximum rate of survivability because it comes with no tradeoffs, right? "...slapping on heavy armor and becoming invincible." lol exaggerate much?



If Arcanes want the protection, they can have it. There's the EK tree for proficiency + ASF reduction, and items/Augs for more ASF reduction.

what armor does your caster wear now? would heavy or med be a benefit. if so then yes. How would it be any different than building shadowscale? you have the same effects on any type and you see casters with those combos today.

[Ayseifn]

2000 hp blast. - 74% = 520 - 33% absorb = 348.4 - 30% absorb = 243.88 - 20% absorb = 195.1 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 145.1 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

2000 hp blast. - 67% = 660 - 33% absorb = 442.2 - 30% absorb = 309.54 - 20% absorb = 247.63 - 50 resist (forget if this is pre or post absorb) = 197.63 pts. (half if make your reflex save).

seriously, this is too little. shots that would kill every other toon today will do minimal damage that can be healed with one silver flame pot or a few cure serious. This will either escalate the damage in future so that non mrr toons will instantly explode or make it easy button. we don't need or want easy button, reasonable yes... easy button go to staples... That drove off a lot of the game population post GH. if you want easy, do casual/normal. you want a challenge do ee.

the 2x is a bad idea and needs to be scaled back. 1.5 at maximum... get rid of it (and therefore the light shield nerf) put the item and other development time into fleshing out some good pally changes for the old trees (and same for stalwert defender for fighters).

and it will give a point to sacrificing lvl's and armor for evasion vs slapping on heavy armor and being invincible.

You get a 50% reduction right now on live if you make your save, it's not enough though. Stacking all those absorption items is fine if you're only up against one element, you get a reward for using 5 of your inventory slots but most quests have a variety of spells getting thrown at you. MRR wont work against polar rays, disintegrates, half of meteor swarm, horrid wilting, etc. either, so you'll still be taking lots of spell damage this will just allow tanks to skip evasion again.

[PermaBanned]

what armor does your caster wear now? would heavy or med be a benefit. if so then yes. How would it be any different than building shadowscale? you have the same effects on any type and you see casters with those combos today.

Right now robes, but already has some gearing options on in the bank waiting for the opportunity to transfer to Lama and see what's what. I've always enjoyed my Armored Caster flavor toon, and done a few variations during some reincarnations; but the viability always brokedown as it got farther into epics. Just as some people have been upset about loosing out on some flavors, I'm ecstatic that this flavor (armored caster) may potentially be getting to crawl out of ENorm/Hard adequacy and into EElite viability (<- note I didn't say supremacy).

[Bannith]

I still don't quite see the need for spells of any type to bypass MRR completely isn't it basically a wall of magic force to defend against such things? I also read that people think that force bane untyped etc are otherworldly well that doesn't make much sense spells in general are technically otherworldly. Your spawning a fireball outta thin air if that isn't otherworldly I don't know what is. However when something is specifically built to block or resist such forces it should in all cases of this damage, resist it.

As I stated before I believe some form of penetration relaying to the spell pen feats and enhancements and a simple boost from the cr of monster could give them a limited ability to chip away at the magic resist rating while still allowing tanks what they deserve. So .5% per cr of the casting monster = 35% at cr 70 which is rather common in EE and maybe give players a cap somewhere between 25%-50% penetration. so a spell pen of 25% would break 50% MRR down to 37.5% still a large amount of defense and force bane etc have rare(if any) other way to resist their damage types. I know for a fact that only certain abilities and item effects give temporary resistance to all damage types like radiant force field. And again why cripple people against potent spells that they in most cases can't resist at all even now. I know many people may disagree and this path may have flaws but its better than letting a group of EE casting mobs kill a tank just cause they can't resist damage that MRR should be able to. -Bannith

[Exiledtyrant]

A fireball is not otherworldly it is an element within existence. Everyone has experienced fire. I highly doubt most people have come in contact with magical anti matter whose sole purpose is turning something into nothing. This is besides the point though. Most untyped like Disintegrate are fortitude saves which a tank will have a large amount of, and if they aren't they are force based which are rendered useless vs any Level 1 shield spell. A spell that goes well into the 30+ minute mark and can be cast on any tank that needs it.

[Thar]

You get a 50% reduction right now on live if you make your save, it's not enough though. Stacking all those absorption items is fine if you're only up against one element, you get a reward for using 5 of your inventory slots but most quests have a variety of spells getting thrown at you. MRR wont work against polar rays, disintegrates, half of meteor swarm, horrid wilting, etc. either, so you'll still be taking lots of spell damage this will just allow tanks to skip evasion again.

most of those spells can be avoided by paying attention and moving out of the way with no evasion. Even if they do hit, it's not for 1000s of damage and normal mrr would be fine. 2x is unnecessary.

[Silverleafeon]

Prefer the idea I posted earlier of having mithril or addy type augments that'll move a shield up or down a category depending on which one you slot. There are no GS, TF or even dragonscale shields so not much in the way of customization, we're left with named or lootgen for the most part(still no MA bucklers). Since all shield types will now have their own niche the existing shields will be much more stratifying, so previously where my heavy armoured paladin could use an Epic Swashbuckler and just lose some DR and AC and receive all those nice mutations now I'll be gimping myself a lot harder. Swashbucklers and light shield users don't even have a choice, use one of the very very few shields in those categories or none at all.

An augment would mean they're still the best in their default position since you get to use the slot for something more powerful, and you can always keep some of the bad without giving any of the good. So a tower going to heavy may keep the MDB but not the PRR/MRR/AC, a heavy going to light might lose a lot of AC/DR, etc.

An excellent idea that I support.

^This^

Even if we have to grind out the augments on top of the shields that have been (time consumingly) ground, it introduces a mechanic to allow us to keep it. Even allowing for the same in armor, moving the armor down a category reduces prr/mrr, and moving it up would not provide never before seen benefits to the game...it simply gives more prr/mrr to an existing set of armor.

It would grant a great deal of versatility to shield which are suddenly coming into strong spotlight.

An augment probably can't be coded to change the item type. that would be like changing a weapon from scimtar to club with a slot. It's probably able to add an effect but the item design has never changed from an augment so probably not possible. An item turnin vendor or recipe is probably the only solution to change existing items to another of similar type.

We can ask for either/both and see what the Devs can do.

[RKP]

Greetings,

Buckler: None
Light Shield: None
Heavy Shield: No Evasion feat
Tower Shield: No Evasion feat

Sev~

I don't really have a problem with the above because none of my splash evaders uses a shield but I find it interesting that DDO is taking the evasion class feature away from characters with heavy shields that already have it while the newest version of the source material (Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition) is adding a feat that gives heavy shield users evasion (1/round) when they don't have it as a class feature. See the 5th edition Player's Handbook page 170 Shield Master feat (technically still not released until Wednesday 8/20/14).


Of course I know you will say that DDO and 5th edition are alike in this because they are both giving magical damage mitigation to shield users against reflex/dex saves, but still it is interesting timing don't you think?

[Thar]

I don't really have a problem with the above because none of my splash evaders uses a shield but I find it interesting that DDO is taking the evasion class feature away from characters with heavy shields that already have it while the newest version of the source material (Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition) is adding a feat that gives heavy shield users evasion (1/round) when they don't have it as a class feature. See the 5th edition Player's Handbook page 170 Shield Master feat (technically still not released until Wednesday 8/20/14).


Of course I know you will say that DDO and 5th edition are alike in this because they are both giving magical damage mitigation to shield users against reflex/dex saves, but still it is interesting timing don't you think?

If they are adding it back as a feat, that is interesting, but kind of counter productive with the melee changes as shield users need all the feats/dps they can get to counter the loss of offhand/twf additional dps.

[IronClan]

Also, are you seriously suggesting that shield of morning is just as useful as say, dethek runeshield? Or wall of wood? Because thats what people forced to move to small are likely to be coming from. And man... no contest, they got owned.

Right now, you kind of just boned them all.

I love how on the Forum's there's more than 3 people in the entire game who are Evasion/Large or Tower shield/Light Armor builds...

[Thar]

I love how on the Forum's there's more than 3 people in the entire game who are Evasion/Large or Tower shield/Light Armor builds...

Tower shield restricts your dex so that is probably not as logical a build.

I know a number of tanks using evasion with the epic destiny's so it is more common than you think to slap on light armor to use those top tier destinys for a ETR life.

And just because you don't find a build fun (or practical), doesn't mean that others are not using it.

Look at some of the dev builds feather posted before. vampire monk wizard something... no one would make that... but they can... if people find it fun, great. but finding a grouping may be questionable...

[B0ltdrag0n]

Tower shield restricts your dex so that is probably not as logical a build.

I know a number of tanks using evasion with the epic destiny's so it is more common than you think to slap on light armor to use those top tier destinys for a ETR life.

And just because you don't find a build fun (or practical), doesn't mean that others are not using it.

Look at some of the dev builds feather posted before. vampire monk wizard something... no one would make that... but they can... if people find it fun, great. but finding a grouping may be questionable...

That's fine. It is still going away.

[Uska]

I don't really have a problem with the above because none of my splash evaders uses a shield but I find it interesting that DDO is taking the evasion class feature away from characters with heavy shields that already have it while the newest version of the source material (Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition) is adding a feat that gives heavy shield users evasion (1/round) when they don't have it as a class feature. See the 5th edition Player's Handbook page 170 Shield Master feat (technically still not released until Wednesday 8/20/14).


Of course I know you will say that DDO and 5th edition are alike in this because they are both giving magical damage mitigation to shield users against reflex/dex saves, but still it is interesting timing don't you think?

Seen it and it's been available here since last week and I am not impressed saying 5E does it is as big a minus for me as saying 4e does it.





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[Nodoze]

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