My EK Dilemma: Orbs or Shields

[bsquishwizzy]

I’ve decided to (once again) activate and level my EK wizzy. I’m at lvl 15, sticking with S&B, using and using scimitars. Now I am at a crossroads as far as my focus. Do I drop a shield – which seems to have nice defensive benefits – and go with an orb in my offhand, or keep using a shield?

The shield enhancements in EK seem kinda meh. But, there don’t seem to be a lot of orbs out there worth an investment.

I’m also dabbling with the idea of SWF. I’ve got Power Attack and Cleave, and have the equivalent melee DPS of your average paladin. The difference is I got lots of Instakills, CC, and ranged abilities to offset by otherwise crappy melee DPS.

Likewise, I’m sticking with pure wizzy. I want to see what the class does first, so please no multi-class suggestions. I’ve put some investment in PM, and might even tame it to Wraith form, but I want to run up the EK tree as much as I can.

So…opinions on direction? Orb or Shield? SWF or no SWF?



One thing to note: shields give me nice defense, I can couple it with White Dragonscale armors for additional defensive benefits. Likewise it gives me a better potential for a blue augment slot, and I can hang Lore and potency attributes off of it. So it is partly like a caster with their dual scepters. I guess what I am trying to get at is: will I have that same sort of advantage with an orb? If not, what will an orb bring to the table?

[Tom116]

I’ve decided to (once again) activate and level my EK wizzy. I’m at lvl 15, sticking with S&B, using and using scimitars. Now I am at a crossroads as far as my focus. Do I drop a shield – which seems to have nice defensive benefits – and go with an orb in my offhand, or keep using a shield?

The shield enhancements in EK seem kinda meh. But, there don’t seem to be a lot of orbs out there worth an investment.

I’m also dabbling with the idea of SWF. I’ve got Power Attack and Cleave, and have the equivalent melee DPS of your average paladin. The difference is I got lots of Instakills, CC, and ranged abilities to offset by otherwise crappy melee DPS.

Likewise, I’m sticking with pure wizzy. I want to see what the class does first, so please no multi-class suggestions. I’ve put some investment in PM, and might even tame it to Wraith form, but I want to run up the EK tree as much as I can.

So…opinions on direction? Orb or Shield? SWF or no SWF?



One thing to note: shields give me nice defense, I can couple it with White Dragonscale armors for additional defensive benefits. Likewise it gives me a better potential for a blue augment slot, and I can hang Lore and potency attributes off of it. So it is partly like a caster with their dual scepters. I guess what I am trying to get at is: will I have that same sort of advantage with an orb? If not, what will an orb bring to the table?

As an EK, I'd have to lean towards shields. Even without the enhancement, orbs' spell casting boost vs a shield's survivability would probably point to the shield. That SWF idea sounds cool though, maybe a hand and a half weapon (B-Sword/Dwarven Axe) and an orb with SWF? I do like the idea of that, and my EK was fine without a shield. You'll need to have the balance ranks there, but if you do then I think that sounds great. Wraith wouldn't be a bad idea either, if you can swing it. 25% incorp + a death aura that keeps you going pretty nicely. Negative energy bust can be handy in a pinch too. Also gives free ghost touch/feather fall for what that's worth.

How are your stats though? I'm curious about your int/str if you've got some good DC's on instakills and still melee. SWF also lets you use double your STR for damage, which is pretty nice

[unbongwah]

One advantage of SWF is there are no stat pre-reqs like THF or TWF, just the ranks of Balance you need; so it opens some interesting options if you're playing a feat-rich but stat-constrained build like, say, a pure wiz. I've been contemplating some "SWF+orb" gish builds myself. You're hitting the point where you can start equipping named orbs, like Madstone Skull and Wizard's Ward. The main drawback to being pure wiz is without access to Different Tack (Swashbuckler) or Insightful Dmg spell for INT-to-dmg, your melee DPS takes a significant hit. [There are a couple of staves which use INT for dmg, but that does a SWF or S&B build no good.]

[AbyssalMage]

Didn't think you could use shield without Bard PrE for SWF. So I would go Orb, can still use them to block and get a nice benefit.

[unbongwah]

By default, SWF feats require your offhand to be empty or with a runearm or orb equipped; Swashbuckling stance req's your offhand to be empty or with a buckler equipped. In order to use SWF feats with a buckler, you need to be a Swashbuckler and take Skirmisher enh; and in order to use a RA or orb while Swashbuckling, you need to take the Cannoneer or Arcane Marauder enh from SB tree. You cannot use SWF with any shield larger than a buckler.

[FranOhmsford]

How are your stats though? I'm curious about your int/str if you've got some good DC's on instakills and still melee.

One advantage of SWF is there are no stat pre-reqs like THF or TWF, just the ranks of Balance you need; so it opens some interesting options if you're playing a feat-rich but stat-constrained build like, say, a pure wiz.

I hope the above is sarcasm?

Pure Wiz - Stat Constrained? Really?

Clerics are stat constrained
Paladins are stat constrained
FvSs are stat constrained
Rogues are stat constrained

Wizards AREN'T!


You don't need 18 Constitution! {Your Warforged does NOT need 20 Constitution!}

[autochthon]

I hope the above is sarcasm?

Pure Wiz - Stat Constrained? Really?

Clerics are stat constrained
Paladins are stat constrained
FvSs are stat constrained
Rogues are stat constrained

Wizards AREN'T!


You don't need 18 Constitution! {Your Warforged does NOT need 20 Constitution!}

A d4 class trying to do melee. Yes you do indeed very much want that constitution. That being said Wiz is mildly stat constrained in terms of if yo uwant to get your EK on AND still hit people with your spells. Now if you dump DC's and go full on melee monster buffer? Sure much less stat constraint.

[FranOhmsford]

A d4 class trying to do melee. Yes you do indeed very much want that constitution. That being said Wiz is mildly stat constrained in terms of if yo uwant to get your EK on AND still hit people with your spells. Now if you dump DC's and go full on melee monster buffer? Sure much less stat constraint.

Well if your idea of stat constrained = Not being able to start with 20 Con, 18 Int and Str then there's nothing more to say!

However: No you don't need 20 Con on that Warforged - 14 Base is enough - And considering you can dump Dex, Wis and Cha you've got more than enough points to max Int and still have a good strength!
Anything less than Max Int pretty much = Dumped for a Caster in DDO so if you're going Max Str you're NOT going to have viable DCs anyway!

Wizard and Sorc are the least stat constrained classes in the game - Even Fighters and Barbs have it worse!


Hang on a minute - This is heading into WF FvS territory and the old Dump Charisma and Wisdom they're Pointless advice you used to get all the time {even when you didn't ask for it!}.

Are you one of those people who thought WF FvSs only needed Str and Con?

It's a bit different when you're expected to have viable DCs isn't it!

[autochthon]

Well if your idea of stat constrained = Not being able to start with 20 Con, 18 Int and Str then there's nothing more to say!

However: No you don't need 20 Con on that Warforged - 14 Base is enough - And considering you can dump Dex, Wis and Cha you've got more than enough points to max Int and still have a good strength!
Anything less than Max Int pretty much = Dumped for a Caster in DDO so if you're going Max Str you're NOT going to have viable DCs anyway!

Wizard and Sorc are the least stat constrained classes in the game - Even Fighters and Barbs have it worse!


Hang on a minute - This is heading into WF FvS territory and the old Dump Charisma and Wisdom they're Pointless advice you used to get all the time {even when you didn't ask for it!}.

Are you one of those people who thought WF FvSs only needed Str and Con?

It's a bit different when you're expected to have viable DCs isn't it!

Ehhhh I don't see a difference of +/2 DC as a huge deal unless DC's are really that precise. But by the time you're trying to do an EK using any spell with a DC is pretty much a bad idea. You either won't have the feat focus to manage the DCs or you won;t have the stats. Or you won;t have either.

I say if you go EK (or melee soul) look for stuff without saves and use that. Stuff like Acid Fog and Ice Storm where you get a solid CC effect and no required saves (for the CC or damage).

[bsquishwizzy]

I hope the above is sarcasm?

Pure Wiz - Stat Constrained? Really?

Clerics are stat constrained
Paladins are stat constrained
FvSs are stat constrained
Rogues are stat constrained

Wizards AREN'T!


You don't need 18 Constitution! {Your Warforged does NOT need 20 Constitution!}

I'm finding that with an EK, you're stat-constrained. Moreso than a PM or AM. If you want to have all of your bases covered you need STR for damage, INT for casting, CON (obvious reasons) and DEX for balance and AC boosts. Yeah, you can kinda dump WIS, and maybe CHR if you want to ignore UMD (which is possible).

How are your stats though? I'm curious about your int/str if you've got some good DC's on instakills and still melee.

Human, max INT, I think 13 STR, 16 CON, all level-ups into INT - I don't have the character in front of me. The melee DPS is meh: along the lines of a Paladin. However, coupled with Evocation / Conjuration AoEs, ranged attacks like Scorching Ray, the overall DPS isn't bad. The thing I was having the hardest time managing was being more aggressive with DPS, and backing away from being a traditional caster. That's changed now around lvl 10.

My instakills just outright suck. Then again, it's a first-life, non-necro build for most purposes. So I expect that. I could have gone Illusion, but figured Evocation / Enchantment sorta gave me more bang for the buck. Plus I already have a PM in my stable of toons.




Its beginning to sound like shields is the way to go if I want to stay pure. I’m not seeing any major advantages with orbs, and it sounds to me like there are some contortions required with SWF to fit this in. I think half of the problem here is that there is not great proliferation of orbs to be gotten, but there is a wellspring of shield options I can incorporate. I was thinking of maybe incorporating some AM and Traditionalist Caster as well as blocking advantages with an orb. But that doesn’t seem to be in the cards.

Thanks for the info.