Are raids not being run?

[hunzi2010]

My apologies, I have tr'd a few of my toons, so I haven't been posting raids.
keep an eye out on Thelanis in the next few weeks, I will be running a few more once my toons are back up to scratch.

Mind you the other day we 3 manned the shadow raid right up to the combat room and it still took nearly an hour to fill. that's with most of the work done.
so there are raids running.

maybe you can /joinchannel clawchat there are a few people in there and I post in there before an lfm goes up so keep an eye out.
cheers mate and catch you in game.

Hunzi.

[maddmatt70]

Level 30 was an obvious thing after 28 - it was 28 that was the surprise sprung on us by a producer. I can only assume that the delay in level 30 is them realizing they need to have the content for it.

Can't happen fast enough. This holding time is tedious. And yes it had better be worthy.

I won't have you rubbishing people on the council who represent more casual players. They are an important part of this game too. And surely you are not rubbishing ishr who is very much end game? Who on the PC are you talking about Norg?

The producer said in his/her post that the player council heavily influenced the decision to postpone the cap raise to 30 from this December to next year. What that means is 3-6 months longer until we get real end game content. Real end game content means a long term cap not filler content production for the reincarnaters. The player council does not represent people like me who prefer to never true reincarnate or epic reincarnate and would just rather play at the level cap all the time. It is true that players like me have mostly left DDO because of the current state of things so we are not representative of DDO, but then again a lot of people have left DDO in the last few years so maybe Turbine should have thrown people like me a bone here or there so they could retain more people.

[MeliCat]

The producer said in his/her post that the player council heavily influenced the decision to postpone the cap raise to 30 from this December to next year. What that means is 3-6 months longer until we get real end game content. Real end game content means a long term cap not filler content production for the reincarnaters. The player council does not represent people like me who prefer to never true reincarnate or epic reincarnate and would just rather play at the level cap all the time. It is true that players like me have mostly left DDO because of the current state of things so we are not representative of DDO, but then again a lot of people have left DDO in the last few years so maybe Turbine should have thrown people like me a bone here or there so they could retain more people.

Oh I missed that. The only way that I would have influenced that is pointing out the obvious (which surely they already knew?) that in going to 30 they better have something to do there. I really think it sucks we have to wait but looking at what resources it would take and how resources have been deployed lately I'm really not that surprised.

And yes I understand a little of the amazing players I know who play end game but don't really TR. Mil from CE is one, Eth who you see all over the achievements forums is another, another good friend who only has one PL on his monk is another. A number of the Rev guys didn't have TRed chars. TRing is not end game. I am not surprised all the players I know who hate TRing are taking a hiatus because there is nothing much to do.

It's a point of frustration I totally agree with as I miss these people.

Focusing on the positive at least they're trying again to fix armor and damage mitigation. And it is good that they're trying to do that before we hit 30.

[droid327]

The producer said in his/her post that the player council heavily influenced the decision to postpone the cap raise to 30 from this December to next year. What that means is 3-6 months longer until we get real end game content. Real end game content means a long term cap not filler content production for the reincarnaters. The player council does not represent people like me who prefer to never true reincarnate or epic reincarnate and would just rather play at the level cap all the time. It is true that players like me have mostly left DDO because of the current state of things so we are not representative of DDO, but then again a lot of people have left DDO in the last few years so maybe Turbine should have thrown people like me a bone here or there so they could retain more people.

Just curious - why isn't 28 "endgame content" right now? Just because you know the level cap will eventually go up? Isnt that true in any game, at any time? Is the next several months at L28 not "worth it" to invest in L28 stuff right now?

What do you think will happen at L30 that isn't already happening at L28, at L20, at L15 and L1? All L30 will be is more of the same - monsters, quests, loot - with slightly bigger numbers.

[Monkey_Archer]

Building a new endgame for level 30 takes time. A lot of time. When the cap was 20 we had 5 commonly run raids (reaver, shroud, vod, hound, TOD) and 4 occasionally run raids (DQ, VON, abbot, titan) plus 2 non-raid quests (SOS, DD), and eventually the original epics (desert, von) became extensions of what I like to call the +6 stat era. The release of MOTU made that fully developed level 20 endgame completely obsolete by introducing the +8 stat era and massive power creep in the form of epic destinies, and shadowfell made MOTU obsolete with the +10 stat era.

I'd like to think that turbine's long term plan is to develop a similar ~10 raid endgame for level 30 and keep loot powercreep at the +10 stat level. The only 2 endgame raids now (deathwyrm, fire peaks) could be a great foundation for building that. But seeing as I have no insider knowledge, and turbine doesn't like to share, I can only assume that they will continue making older content obsolete with new toys rather then create a sustainable endgame.

To the OP, of course nobody runs raids "just for fun" anymore... how is blitzing through effortless content with no rewards fun other then for the sake of nostalgia?

[Silverleafeon]

The producer said in his/her post that the player council heavily influenced the decision to postpone the cap raise to 30 from this December to next year.

Hey Mad Matt,

Good to see you.
It is a shame you were not elected to player's council, I think you would been a good choice.

I actually suggested to raise it immediately with a relvauatione of the xp curve since the current xp
curve will place 9.750.000 xp ? or there abouts.

On a personal note, Fawngate is on life 93 and has all her past lives already, so it did not matter to her.

What that means is 3-6 months longer until we get real end game content.

This is not necessarily true, although it could appear true.

I asked for permission to discuss details of Orchard and was told that it should come from official source.
The only thing that is not NDA is the Producers letter, hence I quote:

Update 23 will bring Epic Orchard of the Macabre to DDO, along with a new Epic raid! While the raid will share some locations and similarities to the current Accursed Ascension raid (“Abbot raid”), our team will bring a whole new series of challenges to adventurers brave enough to enter. We’re not simply “adding hit points to the Abbot”, but are rather re-thinking the raid space for an entirely new battle, with a new story line, baddies, loot, and more! One of the things we’re looking to do in the coming year is to provide more high-level questing and raiding to DDO, and we think an Epic Orchard of the Macabre fits nicely with that goal.

Besides newly Epi-fied versions of the quests found in Orchard of the Macabre, we’re also planning to make sure the Orchard itself is ready for high-level adventure with exciting battles against rare enemies, werewolves (yes, in Eberron!), new loot, and more! We’ll be talking a lot more about the Epic Orchard of the Macabre in the coming months, and I can’t wait for you to see what our devious devs have planned.


Cheers!
Athena “Vyvyanne” Peters
Franchise Director – Dungeons & Dragons Online

Real end game content means a long term cap not filler content production for the reincarnaters.

By filler content, I guess you are referring to 3bc being a mid epic level adventure pack?

The player council does not represent people like me who prefer to never true reincarnate or epic reincarnate and would just rather play at the level cap all the time.

Sadly for better or for worse, Fawngate is not reincarnating due to zero past lives left to gain.
I see no reason to start a second TR project, as that would be like leaving the Royals in the garage and riding a bike to work.

In the past ever since the advent of an upcoming Gianthold Raid, I have written the Developers with a simple request:
"Please make any new raids as high a level as you possibly can."
I will continue with that advice thruout this year and onward.

[Makkuroi]

No CItW LFM couple of last weeks on Thelanis

actually i ran in a CitW pug last week

[rprust1]

Join a guild that runs raids, the guild I am in "Green Mnt Boyz" on Thelanis runs them on raid night and we are recruiting. Send a tell and ask someone we run a lot together in the evenings.

[Robbenklopper]

Raids are run all the time and i love em. I just have 4 toons and like to cycle through them, 1 is <lvl20, the others after 20 an ER. I run the raids find missing equippment or just "to have it", i run them for fun or Support even when there´s nothing to get. I like the game and use my time to "Play" the game. Onyl tempest spine is really boring and was on from the first time i played it.

[janave]

Raids are run all the time and i love em. I just have 4 toons and like to cycle through them, 1 is <lvl20, the others after 20 an ER. I run the raids find missing equippment or just "to have it", i run them for fun or Support even when there´s nothing to get. I like the game and use my time to "Play" the game. Onyl tempest spine is really boring and was on from the first time i played it.

My experience is very different, hence this thread. "All the time" is an absolute exaggeration.

I do post my own LFMs most of the time, the VoN5-6 fills easily, the rest. Not so much.

[Azarddoze]

Must be because it reminds me of old MMOs i've played before but I ran FoT 40 times when it came out and would do it another 20 times right now if it was still top level and as challenging / new. That's just how much fun I think that one was. Now with 2 raids at top level but not much to do around it, I bet most are TRing.

The pugging scene in DDO isn't really raid friendly. Your best bet is really to start your own group and wait or join a raiding guild / group as there are still plenty i'd guess. If you start a group a couple times, coupled with success, people will remember your name and they will join your following runs. That's how I did it for FoT... but of course it was fresh at that time.

Personally, I think they're the best part of the game. That and some quests here and there. But you're so right, few seems to think that way.

[Indianwiz]

On a personal note, Fawngate is on life 93 and has all her past lives already, so it did not matter to her.

93?!! Amazing!!!!!!!!

[Chai]

The producer said in his/her post that the player council heavily influenced the decision to postpone the cap raise to 30 from this December to next year. What that means is 3-6 months longer until we get real end game content. Real end game content means a long term cap not filler content production for the reincarnaters. The player council does not represent people like me who prefer to never true reincarnate or epic reincarnate and would just rather play at the level cap all the time. It is true that players like me have mostly left DDO because of the current state of things so we are not representative of DDO, but then again a lot of people have left DDO in the last few years so maybe Turbine should have thrown people like me a bone here or there so they could retain more people.

This.

They claim end gamers don't represent a high percentage of players, but it was these types of decisions that pushed most of the end gamers out the door in the first place.

[wraxzz]

I see the same 3 or 4 raids on the lfm every night usually multiple times.

Server? peak time?

I don't see any raids other than von and shroud often on the khyber lfm. Ive stopped logging cannith and argo completely due to low raid lfms. Heck, there were times that I saw more lfm posts to sell **** than lfm's to create groups for the epic level range

lies. i tend to check the lfm several times per 5 minutes and the past 2 weeks i saw 0 fot's, 1citw that turned into a fot, 2 or 3 abbot raids, 3 shrouds (1 didnt seem to fill), 2 adq's. The only raid that was run regularly was VoN5 & 6, and this is with me checking the lfm at least once per minute to see if a raid is up.

Why not put up your own LFM? Grab a few buddies so at least your not alone and it will fill.

Turbine screwed the pouch on this one by handing out 2 raiders boxes to everyone.

No they didn't. Not according to my experience. People don't run CitW because it often lags like full ****** mabar lag and if it doesn't lag, they run fot instead for guaranteed comms. My last 2 full group citw's (1xEN 1xEH) resulted in no more than 8 com's between the 24 players. The only reason I do citw now is because i havent bought the new raid pack yet- simple as that. Thunderforged screwed over citw and to some extent fot.

Which raids are you talking about? I see a fire on thunder peak, temple of deathwyrrm, fall of truth, and shroud every night. I think that there is a good reason why most people run certain raids more and certain ones less, but I'd have to go through each on a case by case basis and it's all my opinion anyway so I'm not sure how much it's worth.

The only newer raid I don't see up often is CITW. To be honest, I'd run it more if it didn't have such a problem with lag. I didn't have a problem until a few months ago, but the lag in that quest (for me) makes it more trouble than it is worth.

lies. i tend to check the lfm several times per 5 minutes, checking for raids/pugs whilst I solo around and the past 2 weeks i saw 0 fot's, 1citw that turned into a fot, 2 or 3 abbot raids, 3 shrouds (1 didnt seem to fill), 2 adq's. The only raid that was run regularly was VoN5 & 6, and this is with me checking the lfm at least once per minute to see if a raid is up.

[cave_diver]

Two comments,
First, I would love to put up a CitW but other than Wiki, I know nothing about it. Granted I would be running EN/EH (with a strong preference for Normal) but that doesn't guarantee it would fill.

Second, CitW weapons were the best eTR choice but the new "shiny" (or should I say "smokey"?) weapons out of Thunder are superior for the eTR train ride. On top of that, every person I have talked to said you are more likely to get your weapon in the 20 completion list than from drops. CoH's are guaranteed in FoT, not CitW. Raiders boxes, if you were lucky to get 2, provide 2 weapons. There are more than two weapons out of that raid that are good.

My 1st comment still stands, grab a few friends and put one up, on g-land I see at least one an evening and it usually fills (it is easier to fill a group that has 4-6 players in it already when posted). A lot of players in the ones I do run now pass weapons since 3/4 of the group have what they want

My personal experience, from 23-26 CITW weapons beats hands down thunder forgered weapons for ETR purposes. I do agree Com rates suck and need to be tripled at least to make somewhat compete with FOT.

Regardless of that at least you get your weapons from 20 completions(most times), if you want a thunder forged weapons be ready to run it 30-40 times for your tier3 (that's if you don't take anything else as phlogs from your end reward (named items have an abysmally small drop rate)

No they didn't. Not according to my experience. People don't run CitW because it often lags like full ****** mabar lag and if it doesn't lag, they run fot instead for guaranteed comms. My last 2 full group citw's (1xEN 1xEH) resulted in no more than 8 com's between the 24 players. The only reason I do citw now is because i havent bought the new raid pack yet- simple as that. Thunderforged screwed over citw and to some extent fot

That full ****** mabar lag is happening to not just CITW but a lot of other raids as well right now (had whole party crippling lag in Fire dragon last night which caused party wipe), but as I mentioned above com drops need to be tripled or more. My statement still stands saying CITW wepons are still my preference from levels 23-26

[Buffyanne]

DDO from the time I started playing has been about the TR train/wheel. In all honesty, you can look at the stuff being run and understand why it is or isn't being run.

• Thunder/Death have the new shiny loot. Also feeds the eTR machine with ML 21/23/26/28(?) weapons.
• Von 5/6 has godly XP. So much so that people often skip VoN6 because of the 3 day lockout.
• Shroud. Feeds the TR machine and offers Raise/Displacement clickies. If either shows up on newer items, this Raid would probably die. I don't think I have ever gotten XP on this one so XP, unlike VoN 5/6 isn't the reason.
• FoT offers CoH for your armor for your set bonus with your Helm that you have to get a lucky "roll on."

This. You'll occasionally get demon queen run because the pre and raid together are good xp and some people still do chase the seals to make items they have always wanted even if they aren't that useful anymore. Another interesting query is why raids don't get run.

Lord of Blades/MA - These were never popular raids and Turbine really screwed up the mechanic because when they came out only a handful of hard core guilds on each server could complete them on the difficulty level needed to finish your weapons. A total epic fail on loot system, which thankfully Turbine has fled from. A large portion of the population also doesn't like fighting or playing robots so the core story wasn't appealing either. Because of this these raids never got a following, people hated the long preraid mechanic and they loot became obsolete with MoTU. There is no salvaging these raids, might as well remove them.

Twilight Forge/Abbott - Both are what I would describe as puzzle raids that you need a person leading who knows the puzzles. Both suffer from waves of bugs that make the raids uncompletable. Abbott is also very hard to flag for, especially in the TR xp reduction world and with the gianthold saga xp the orchard isn't farmed much anymore making flagging much harder. You also really need to know what you are doing in Abbott so it isn't new player friendly and who is every going to teach those new players if the raid is never run? Catch 22 that won't be solved. Twilght is dead, Abbott exists only for nostalgic channel or guild groups., ,

Vision of Destruction/Hound of Xoriat - Both of these raids were in the regular raiding cycle when cap was 20. Both were popular raids, both pretty fun. They have died because their loot is obsolete and they offer no XP. If either of these issues were ever addressed then they would be run again.

Caught in the Web - This was never a popular raid = mainly because when it came out it was filled with bugs and you couldn't complete it. For a long time the raid suffered from crippling lag and pathing problems with Anna. All of that has now been fixed but Turbine gave away the loot to these raids in raiders boxes which pretty much killed it. If the commendation drops were like those on FoT it would be run again.

Tower of Despair - A very popular raid and was a worthy end game raid for a long time. Getting your 'boots' was a goal for every character. This one suffers from the no XP/Loot problem as well but I still find it curious that this raid was so unceremoniously dropped.

[Bridge_Dweller]

It's because the newer raids are just bad content. Once we get the loot we want from bad content there is no point in running them again.

The older and better raids don't present enough challenge to be interesting.

[Bridge_Dweller]

The recent decision to push back the level cap to 30 which was heavily influenced by these same players who do not care about the end game on the player council continues this pattern. The current DDO players suck. I hope that DDO make a more attractive end game in the future not so much for players that might come back, but for attracting new end game players to this game.

Dude, there is no end-game to care about.

[Azarddoze]

This.

They claim end gamers don't represent a high percentage of players, but it was these types of decisions that pushed most of the end gamers out the door in the first place.

And i'm pretty sure it's always the same bet they make.

"Are we gonna make more money off people TRing during that timespan than the loss from the departure that may come back eventually?". While I may be painting them wrongly and this is perhaps not the case, it is still is a widely used marketting tactic.

It's clear that some people are addicted (I don't mean it purely negatively) enought that even though they're end gamers, they'll still stick around and ETR or TRs, waiting for a stable end game once again.

Can't believe that decision has been taken.

[Zotze]

Iam happy that we have several Raid lfms on Cannith and if i want to run a raid, i just put my own lfm on, most times it filles fast enough, even when i decide to do 2-3 runs in row. Not all are 12 ppl runs, but enough to get it completed without problems.
Atm i run since some weeks about 3-4 Deathwyrms a day and some others like FireDragons, FoT or Citw (only for fun).

Its just always many ppl complaining about no raid lfms - just open your own and get it done !

What i would like in the future, to make the old Raids more attractive: RAID SAGAS ! Would be very nice, i also like the old raids and run them for fun.