Are U22 Guildships/Buffs actually getting fixed??

[Tshober]

Alternately, have the new-style tavern amenities grant tavern area status to the entire floor of the ship it's on. That way I can recharge my PLIS while hanging out in the orien express area. (Or whatever it's called.)

I vote for this. For the most part I am loving the new amenities. However, the new tavern needs a lot of work.

[Seikojin]

When you do remove cargo hold buffs, please consider leaving the convenience amenities (ah, tavern, bank, mail) for purchase in the cargo hold. The cargo hold is the only place you can restore your clickies (like the PLIS, which can take up to four recharges to get back to 50) while you're checking the ah, reading mail, and messing with your bank.

The new amenities, even when they're fixed to have a real tavern area, won't allow you to do this unless the tavern area they throw out is huge.

Alternately, have the new-style tavern amenities grant tavern area status to the entire floor of the ship it's on. That way I can recharge my PLIS while hanging out in the orien express area. (Or whatever it's called.)

Note: This behavior of doing other stuff while recharging clickies was available on the old-style ships. It would be a shame if the new-style ships were such a marked downgrade in quality of life.

on lam, plus recharged with the buff bar tavern, but I can't recall the rate or if it was completely depleted when I used it.

[Stoner81]

Any word yet on what is going to happen with the Cargo Hold once legacy buffs are no longer available? Seems like a huge waste of space if nothing is being done with it.

Stoner81.

[Tshober]

Any word yet on what is going to happen with the Cargo Hold once legacy buffs are no longer available? Seems like a huge waste of space if nothing is being done with it.

Stoner81.

My assumption is it will not be an option on the list anymore. I believe that is exactly why they put all of the old amenities in a separate deck. Just remove cargo hold from the list of decks and you're done. Could not be a simpler coding change.

[HawkFest]

But some of the amenities themselves are tiered - specifically, the XP shrines and the resist shrines (the higher levels give a flat-rate absorption as well as the character-level-driven resist), and I think that's what he was asking about

After a second reading, I think that too! Coming from DDO's page about guild airships, I've read his post too fast and thus misinterpreted it (Being "after-hours", I guess my brain just forgot to allocate a high "weight factor of remembrance" for this specification.. hmm ).

- will Shrine of Experience V be dropping, and if so, are we going to be needing to acquire I-IV first, or can we just get the V and use it?

A very pertinent question. IMHO, for such contexts there should be no need for a "must 1st aquire lower-tier amenities" (read why IMHO they don't evoke the chain integrity of Tiered amenities further down). At the same time, this could be one of the reasons it's been delayed, as the conception could demand other mechanisms than those non object-oriented "snippets" currently at hand (requiring code design and structural flow conformity, over evoking object attributes, methods and classes : it's clear that he engine does not offer a pure object oriented platform, which would also explain why collateral and seemingly unrelated bugs can appear after an update). They must have been obliged to abandoned the Amenity drops in chests (rare drops) and such features over-enthusiastically planned for a too short-term dev. production time-span of a U22... Although not much is said about receiving them as end rewards post-U22, we must assume it's not there either (also, I've never heard nor read of anyone getting an airship amenity as an end-reward after some quest post-U22, which is why I was asking for someone who actually got one to manifest him/herself in a previous post).

On this page (may 2014 pre-U22), the Devs say:

They will almost all appear in quest end reward lists. A few of these will be rare drops. (...) the amenities found on quest reward lists will go into your personal inventory, but most amenities will never touch player inventory space. We’ve created a new guild inventory concept, to hold our permanent amenities when they’re not placed. Using an amenity deed from your inventory, on your airship, will move it into that guild inventory space.

• They don't mention about what would happen if the PC does this on an airship which is not his current guild's airship (as another guild's airship guest).
  
  My guess is that the system would simply detect that you're not on your guild's airship, say so in an ugly brown box, and stop the process. Since it's an evidence (hopefully, at least for professional developpers), it should be assumed as in a logical flow - it's not really a "feature" but an imperative.
  
  
• They don't evoke the chain integrity of Tiered amenities.
  
  However, on DDO's Wiki, they outline how one can actually get higher tier amenities without having to go through all the prerequisites, by just buying it for some corresponding amount: "Tiered amenities are upgraded one by one, so that you have to pay cumulative cost for the higher tier. For example, to get a Shrine of Experience V, you have to pay 1,510 (95 + 195 + 325 + 400 + 495) AS, not 495 AS." (this is assuming that the prerequisite guild level for that tier is valid)... Since you can buy them out, then it is very conceivable that they could be found in chests (rare drops) or received as end rewards. The problem would lie when one gets a higher tier amenity then the one found on the airship (at least +2, else it follows the chain and it's not a problem) AND such high-tier amenity is only available for a higher guild level then the current one : what to do with it? Keep it in the "new guild inventory concept" where it stays dormant until the guild level allows for it?... We'll see what they'll come up with (well... You guys will, I won't since I'm not even an airship Officer yet ;-P.

MY question is, will the legacy buffs continue to be able to be purchased?

As per DDO's Official Known Issues page: "New Airship Amenities are not currently appearing in chests. This will be fixed in a future update. Pre-Update 22 amenities (such as the pre-U22 XP shrines) remain available in the Cargo Hold for purchase, and new Update 22 permanent versions are available for Astral Shards."

Quite straightforward. However my question remains unanswered : since they don't mention it in the Official Known Issues page even though it was planned (as we could read on the devs post above-mentioned), what about end rewards? Do they offer amenities post-U22?

[Nascoe]

After a second reading, I think that too! Coming from DDO's page about guild airships, I've read his post too fast and thus misinterpreted it (Being "after-hours", I guess my brain just forgot to allocate a high "weight factor of remembrance" for this specification.. hmm ).


A very pertinent question. IMHO, for such contexts there should be no need for a "must 1st aquire lower-tier amenities" (read why IMHO they don't evoke the chain integrity of Tiered amenities further down). At the same time, this could be one of the reasons it's been delayed, as the conception could demand other mechanisms than those non object-oriented "snippets" currently at hand (requiring code design and structural flow conformity, over evoking object attributes, methods and classes : it's clear that he engine does not offer a pure object oriented platform, which would also explain why collateral and seemingly unrelated bugs can appear after an update). They must have been obliged to abandoned the Amenity drops in chests (rare drops) and such features over-enthusiastically planned for a too short-term dev. production time-span of a U22... Although not much is said about receiving them as end rewards post-U22, we must assume it's not there either (also, I've never heard nor read of anyone getting an airship amenity as an end-reward after some quest post-U22, which is why I was asking for someone who actually got one to manifest him/herself in a previous post).

On this page (may 2014 pre-U22), the Devs say:

They will almost all appear in quest end reward lists. A few of these will be rare drops. (...) the amenities found on quest reward lists will go into your personal inventory, but most amenities will never touch player inventory space. We’ve created a new guild inventory concept, to hold our permanent amenities when they’re not placed. Using an amenity deed from your inventory, on your airship, will move it into that guild inventory space.

• They don't mention about what would happen if the PC does this on an airship which is not his current guild's airship (as another guild's airship guest).
  
  My guess is that the system would simply detect that you're not on your guild's airship, say so in an ugly brown box, and stop the process. Since it's an evidence (hopefully, at least for professional developpers), it should be assumed as in a logical flow - it's not really a "feature" but an imperative.
  
  
• They don't evoke the chain integrity of Tiered amenities.
  
  However, on DDO's Wiki, they outline how one can actually get higher tier amenities without having to go through all the prerequisites, by just buying it for some corresponding amount: "Tiered amenities are upgraded one by one, so that you have to pay cumulative cost for the higher tier. For example, to get a Shrine of Experience V, you have to pay 1,510 (95 + 195 + 325 + 400 + 495) AS, not 495 AS." (this is assuming that the prerequisite guild level for that tier is valid)... Since you can buy them out, then it is very conceivable that they could be found in chests (rare drops) or received as end rewards. The problem would lie when one gets a higher tier amenity then the one found on the airship (at least +2, else it follows the chain and it's not a problem) AND such high-tier amenity is only available for a higher guild level then the current one : what to do with it? Keep it in the "new guild inventory concept" where it stays dormant until the guild level allows for it?... We'll see what they'll come up with (well... You guys will, I won't since I'm not even an airship Officer yet ;-P.

As per DDO's Official Known Issues page: "New Airship Amenities are not currently appearing in chests. This will be fixed in a future update. Pre-Update 22 amenities (such as the pre-U22 XP shrines) remain available in the Cargo Hold for purchase, and new Update 22 permanent versions are available for Astral Shards."

Quite straightforward. However my question remains unanswered : since they don't mention it in the Official Known Issues page even though it was planned (as we could read on the devs post above-mentioned), what about end rewards? Do they offer amenities post-U22?

Hm, most of the questions posed in here were already answered in either the release notes or known issues or were answered in posts already:
- Currently amenities are NOT dropping from chests or reward lists on live (see known issues), but with U22.2 (now on Lam.) they WILL be added to chain rewards.
- Deeds for tiered amenities will drop per tier, and have to be taken all (or bought).
- Legacy Amenities are buy-able for now, Vargouille confirmed that they will be until at least U23

[Gremmlynn]

My assumption is it will not be an option on the list anymore. I believe that is exactly why they put all of the old amenities in a separate deck. Just remove cargo hold from the list of decks and you're done. Could not be a simpler coding change.

More likely it will be left for most players to simply ignore. That works better for them than having to refund any old style gold seal, or even plat, contracts players may have 20 year supplies of.

[Gremmlynn]

I hope it's either more like regular tomes where you can just emplace a Shrine of Experience IV at any time, or generic ("This Shrine of Experience Deed can be used to give your guild a 1% Shrine of Experience or, if you already have a Shrine of Experience, improve your current one by an additional 1%, up to 5%") I'd prefer the straight emplacement, I'd settle for the generic 1% upgrade, I'd purely hate the 1%/1-2%/2-3%/3-4%/4-5% path that requires everything.

I hope so too. But I just can't see Turbine passing up the opportunity to use a higher tier drop to spur sales of the lower tiers to to enable a guild to use it.

[Gremmlynn]

Why are they going away? People love them

Some of them compete with new AS amenities and others are not working in a manner congruent with the direction the devs are taking this part of the game.

[ahpook]

Any word yet on what is going to happen with the Cargo Hold once legacy buffs are no longer available? Seems like a huge waste of space if nothing is being done with it.

Stoner81.

They will probably leave them for ever to be safe.

I would prefer that the made the Cargo Hold a PVP area so your guild can have a private PVP area to test in or better yet make a training area into which you can summon a number of different creature types for weapon/spell testing.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Honestly, I will be glad to see them go. The sooner the better. I love not having to deal with those stupid rental contracts.

Then you don't have to deal with them. However, those of us who DO want to use them... are willing to deal with them. See how nicely that works out? We want them, we get them. You don't want them, you don't get them. Win win!

My small guild has a small ship. The new method doesn't really leave room for "convenience" amenities such as the Orien Express or chests (however they plan on implementing those). The cargo hold is perfect for that... and with the Shrines of Experience only dropping in tiers that you have to build up from the base, which is a LUDICROUSLY STUPID method, I'm gonna be sticking with my purchasable +3% XP shrine until I can manage to loot the +1%, +2%, +3%, which I expect to take... quite some time. However, I know I'll have the +5% clogging up my inventory for 3 years, after getting it from the first chain I do.

In other words, Keep the legacy buffs in perpetuity, much like the guild augment vendors!

...or better yet, give every ship a mailbox, banker, tavern, AH, and dummy (because they're just FUN) on the top deck, gratis.

[Tshober]

Then you don't have to deal with them. However, those of us who DO want to use them... are willing to deal with them. See how nicely that works out? We want them, we get them. You don't want them, you don't get them. Win win!

Oh how I wish it did work that way. That would be truly wonderful. But I live in the real internet world where if something is possible to have and people don't have it, regardless how useless it might be, they will complain and nag and whine to no end about not having it. I can hear it now. Actually, I have already heard it. "Please make me officer so I can buy amenities for the cargo hold." "Why don't we have a mailbox in the cargo hold?" "Why are some of the buffs in the cargo hold disappearing?" "Why?" "Why?" "Why?" "Woe is me!"

The new amenities gave me a tiny whiff of what it would be like to never have to deal with those stupid amenity rental contracts ever again, and it was intoxicating! But, sadly, it wasn't reality.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

Oh how I wish it did work that way. That would be truly wonderful. But I live in the real internet world where if something is possible to have and people don't have it, regardless how useless it might be, they will complain and nag and whine to no end about not having it. I can hear it now. Actually, I have already heard it. "Please make me officer so I can buy amenities for the cargo hold." "Why don't we have a mailbox in the cargo hold?" "Why are some of the buffs in the cargo hold disappearing?" "Why?" "Why?" "Why?" "Woe is me!"

The new amenities gave me a tiny whiff of what it would be like to never have to deal with those stupid amenity rental contracts ever again, and it was intoxicating! But, sadly, it wasn't reality.

Well, that sounds more like an issue with you and your guild, not with the amenities. Just because *you* don't like it doesn't mean the solution is to make it so *others* can't have it.

[Karadon_II]

Per the Update 22 Patch 2 release notes:

The Sign of the Silver Flame buff now gives its correct 5/10/15 Light and Fire Spell Power and Fire Resistance.

What is the Sign not doing WAI on live? My guild is still using the legacy fire resistant shrine so I was just wondering.

Also neither the wiki or the official guide says that the Grand Reliquary grants the Sign of the Silver Flame's light Spellpower, but does anyone know if it actually does so, as it's supposed to consolidate the Sign's abilities with the other two resist/spellpower shrines?

[Tshober]

Well, that sounds more like an issue with you and your guild, not with the amenities. Just because *you* don't like it doesn't mean the solution is to make it so *others* can't have it.

I really, really sympathize with the devs on this. You make the new buffs last 5 times as long. You make them not drop on death. You make them not count down in public zones. You make them stack with everything else in the game. You make them all accessible with a single mouse click. None of which was true of the old buffs. And still people demand that not only should they get all these new, huge benefits, but they absolutely must also get to keep all of the old buffs as well in perpetuity. And people wonder why every MMO suffers from power creep.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

I really, really sympathize with the devs on this. You make the new buffs last 5 times as long. You make them not drop on death. You make them not count down in public zones. You make them stack with everything else in the game. You make them all accessible with a single mouse click. None of which was true of the old buffs. And still people demand that not only should they get all these new, huge benefits, but they absolutely must also get to keep all of the old buffs as well in perpetuity. And people wonder why every MMO suffers from power creep.

I don't want them to stack. I don't care about them stacking. Yes, it's nice that the ele resist shrines stack... but hey, that's no different than the resist spell stacking, really. And I honestly wouldn't be upset if they made the resist shrines not stack

I just want to be able to continue using the buffs I can't get because I refuse to spend TP on buffs. Specifically, the XP shrine (which I know darn well will be dropping the 5%, mebbe even the 4%, but the 1% won't be found for love or money, just like skill and stat tomes currently) and the navigator. Well, and the dancing kobold, 'cause the dancing kobold is just cool.

There is no legitimate reason to stop selling the legacy buffs (and no, your whining about guildmates doesn't count as a legitimate reason, IMHO. If you don't like 'em, they shouldn't be in your guild... or you shouldn't, one or the other). And a lot of very good reasons to keep them up. Including good will (of which they're generally in short supply) and quality of life.

Maintaining the legacy buff system is just good business. It's quite literally the same reason for keeping the guild augment vendors around when they phased those out. It's a nice gesture that doesn't cost them anything.

[Evennote]

I really, really sympathize with the devs on this. You make the new buffs last 5 times as long. You make them not drop on death. You make them not count down in public zones. You make them stack with everything else in the game. You make them all accessible with a single mouse click. None of which was true of the old buffs. And still people demand that not only should they get all these new, huge benefits, but they absolutely must also get to keep all of the old buffs as well in perpetuity. And people wonder why every MMO suffers from power creep.

What about guilds who don't want to spend or can't afford the not inconsiderable amount of astral shards and/or plat for the new buffs, or ships big enough to hold them all?

It's not about power creep, at least not for me and the little guild I'm in. It's about being able to KEEP buffs we ALREADY HAD instead of losing them.

I don't get why you just don't buy them if you don't want them. I *do* want them, so I want to be able to keep buying them. Seems awfully simple to me.