How do you know when to Heroic TR?

[DANTEIL]

So first, a disclaimer: I have never before reincarnated any of my characters in any form. But, I am now starting to consider it. I have a Human Wizard that is barely over Level 20/Magister and a Bard-barian that is Level 21/Fatesinger. (Plus a smattering of lower level characters.) Each of these two have their strengths and weaknesses, and although their builds are not up to snuff by current standards, I have enjoyed playing them. I have been waiting to see what the new Warchanter changes are like for my Bard (soon!), so my Wizard is probably the guy that I would do this with.

My question is this: How do you know if its better to try to keep leveling up toward cap, even if that goes very slowly, or whether it might be better to TR and start over with something else plus the past life? These guys aren't geared up especially well and so I definitely struggle in on-level quests (and many Level 18-19 quests like Amrath/Reaver's Refuge) which means that the XP comes only with effort and dying. Honestly, I'd enjoy seeing the new level 20+ content more than I would repeating Korthos/Harbor one more time, but I worry that would just be a waste of time on characters that aren't especially prepared for the Epic content. Would it then be better to try out an improved build from Level 1 and go from there? And, is it better to do a TR right at level 20, or is it worth it to try to keep leveling up the Epic Destiny for a bit and maybe improving gear? I don't think I am ever going to be a player that does TR after TR (the time and sunk costs associated with Favor etc. make it painful to contemplate), so when I do TR I want it to make sense for me, especially since I'm going to have to spend TP for the heart of wood to do it. Any guidance welcome!

[PsychoBlonde]

So first, a disclaimer: I have never before reincarnated any of my characters in any form. But, I am now starting to consider it. I have a Human Wizard that is barely over Level 20/Magister and a Bard-barian that is Level 21/Fatesinger. (Plus a smattering of lower level characters.) Each of these two have their strengths and weaknesses, and although their builds are not up to snuff by current standards, I have enjoyed playing them. I have been waiting to see what the new Warchanter changes are like for my Bard (soon!), so my Wizard is probably the guy that I would do this with.

My question is this: How do you know if its better to try to keep leveling up toward cap, even if that goes very slowly, or whether it might be better to TR and start over with something else plus the past life? These guys aren't geared up especially well and so I definitely struggle in on-level quests (and many Level 18-19 quests like Amrath/Reaver's Refuge) which means that the XP comes only with effort and dying. Honestly, I'd enjoy seeing the new level 20+ content more than I would repeating Korthos/Harbor one more time, but I worry that would just be a waste of time on characters that aren't especially prepared for the Epic content. Would it then be better to try out an improved build from Level 1 and go from there? And, is it better to do a TR right at level 20, or is it worth it to try to keep leveling up the Epic Destiny for a bit and maybe improving gear? I don't think I am ever going to be a player that does TR after TR (the time and sunk costs associated with Favor etc. make it painful to contemplate), so when I do TR I want it to make sense for me, especially since I'm going to have to spend TP for the heart of wood to do it. Any guidance welcome!

Do you have access to epic destinies? If you're doing level 17+ HEROIC quests, they are very often WAY more difficult than the lower-level EPIC quests are on Epic Hard due to the way the scaling was done. Level 17+ heroic used to be the endgame so it is way over-tuned difficulty-wise.

If you don't have destinies it's really a waste of time leveling through epic levels. If you do have them, no reason not to go all the way to 28 and see what the higher-level content looks like. You can also do a ton of raids and make shroud items etc. that make it a lot easier to level on a 2nd life toon.

Either way, you should run Eberron epics until you get enough tokens of the twelve to get a free Heart of Wood. Don't spend money for one, it's SO easy to get 20 tokens now it's not even funny.

[Seikojin]

My old checklist?
Gear for levelling in the next few lives + final life gear + tr hearts for completionist.

New checklist?
Key Gear for levelling the next life.

Hearts to me used to be hard to grind, but now are easy. In the past, a heart took 10-20 runs of da, or daily da runs and as many other epics as possible to get fragments up to a heart.

Now with soo many quests for content and comms it is far easier to get a heart; tr or otherwise. ETR and ITR hearts take time, but that will be easier with the next patch.

So I would get into some destiny grinding. If you have ED's. They make levelling fast and getting comps for tring enjoyable. Then when you have your tr heart, you can tr with gear and confidence.

Gear wise, I used to plan 5 lifes or more ahead. Too much item management. So now I have my weapons and high end gear. Everything else I earn right before the TR.

[GeoffWatson]

If you want to level up, get some destiny XP, etc, the lower level Epic quests are much easier than the top Heroic level quests. And they give a lot more XP.

Geoff.

[DANTEIL]

Thanks for the responses to my query! Yes, I have access to the Epic Destinies, so it sounds like the consensus is that I should try to keep leveling up for now, and maybe try for more of the easier Epics. In my experience so far (e.g., House D; House P epics) I can manage okay until I get to the end bosses, although resource mgmt is an issue. I'll maybe start playing more of the Eveningstar stuff and try those. Thanks.

[Shinjiteru]

If you have Cannith Challenges I also would suggest to check the gear from there and get some ML 20 gear from there. Is a good start for a wizard because with upgrades they have slots and good spellpower, spell crit for all elements. Should be an easy start for epic leveling gear. But to learn the challenges you probably need some runs and since the base items need the heroic ingredients you need to get them before you are too far from level 20.

And as already mention I would also suggest to level to 28, the next patch will probably be out till you reach that and then it's not too much effort to farm 42 heart seeds for an epic (T)R. Then you can combine an epic + heroic (T)R. And it's easier to join some pugs for the epic content than for amrath and reavers. Or if you open an lfm for whole ES/CitW flagging usually at least 1-3 players are going to join. Don't force yourself to solo quests if this is a new toon which still needs to work on equipment, epic destinies and maybe has some flaws in the build.

My first life wizard was staying at level cap 20 till I got the ToD ring, because I wanted to have good level 20 gear so I could be looking forward to reaching level 18-20 again. But nearly no one is running ToD anymore so it's not worth the time to wait for this item but I would suggest to get some gear so in your next life the heroic->epic transition is going to be easier. A maxed caster ED is making it also easier.

A good guild usually helps new players if they are nice.

[supott]

My estimate is a heroic life will take about 3x as long as an epic life, incase you miss being epic.

[Saekee]

If you have Cannith Challenges I also would suggest to check the gear from there and get some ML 20 gear from there. Is a good start for a wizard because with upgrades they have slots and good spellpower, spell crit for all elements. Should be an easy start for epic leveling gear. But to learn the challenges you probably need some runs and since the base items need the heroic ingredients you need to get them before you are too far from level 20.

And as already mention I would also suggest to level to 28, the next patch will probably be out till you reach that and then it's not too much effort to farm 42 heart seeds for an epic (T)R. Then you can combine an epic + heroic (T)R. And it's easier to join some pugs for the epic content than for amrath and reavers. Or if you open an lfm for whole ES/CitW flagging usually at least 1-3 players are going to join. Don't force yourself to solo quests if this is a new toon which still needs to work on equipment, epic destinies and maybe has some flaws in the build.

My first life wizard was staying at level cap 20 till I got the ToD ring, because I wanted to have good level 20 gear so I could be looking forward to reaching level 18-20 again. But nearly no one is running ToD anymore so it's not worth the time to wait for this item but I would suggest to get some gear so in your next life the heroic->epic transition is going to be easier. A maxed caster ED is making it also easier.

A good guild usually helps new players if they are nice.

and check out the eveningstar commendation set gear. Easy to get and OP.

[jalont]

My estimate is a heroic life will take about 3x as long as an epic life, incase you miss being epic.

This depends on a lot. Pugging is pretty much dead in epics. There's a couple quests that get pugged, but most people don't like epics enough to stay in the level range, making the playerbase small. If people are able to quickly and efficiently farm EH quests solo, then it takes a lot less time to do an epic life. If people aren't, then it can take longer.

[JOTMON]

So first, a disclaimer: I have never before reincarnated any of my characters in any form. But, I am now starting to consider it. I have a Human Wizard that is barely over Level 20/Magister and a Bard-barian that is Level 21/Fatesinger. (Plus a smattering of lower level characters.) Each of these two have their strengths and weaknesses, and although their builds are not up to snuff by current standards, I have enjoyed playing them. I have been waiting to see what the new Warchanter changes are like for my Bard (soon!), so my Wizard is probably the guy that I would do this with.

My question is this: How do you know if its better to try to keep leveling up toward cap, even if that goes very slowly, or whether it might be better to TR and start over with something else plus the past life? These guys aren't geared up especially well and so I definitely struggle in on-level quests (and many Level 18-19 quests like Amrath/Reaver's Refuge) which means that the XP comes only with effort and dying. Honestly, I'd enjoy seeing the new level 20+ content more than I would repeating Korthos/Harbor one more time, but I worry that would just be a waste of time on characters that aren't especially prepared for the Epic content. Would it then be better to try out an improved build from Level 1 and go from there? And, is it better to do a TR right at level 20, or is it worth it to try to keep leveling up the Epic Destiny for a bit and maybe improving gear? I don't think I am ever going to be a player that does TR after TR (the time and sunk costs associated with Favor etc. make it painful to contemplate), so when I do TR I want it to make sense for me, especially since I'm going to have to spend TP for the heart of wood to do it. Any guidance welcome!

It is a personal choice.. ER's, TR's do provide benefits, but will take time.
Once you start seeing the benefits of TR'ing it does become addictive...
Currently I am enjoying the ER/TR cycles since there is little in the way of new/endgame content.

Things to consider..
1. Farming out TR gear to make next life(lives) easier..like Shroud, Cannith Crafting, other levelling gear.
2. Keeping at least 1 toon in the Epic level cap range for any event type farming, checking out new content as it becomes available.. farming Tokens, CoV, etc...
3. a Levelling/TR plan.. what lives will net you the benefits you can utilize sooner rather than later (especially if you tire of TR'ing)
4. Storage space... first TR is great.. you can store in the TR cache a lot of stuff.. 2nd TR.. doom.. you now have to find a place to empty all that stuff to.as the cahce has to be cleared each life.
5. Favor to a lesser extent like the 400 favor that unlocks drow.. if you TR your favor toon and don't have another one that has unlocked it you could lock yourself out of any Drow toons.

Epic reincarnations also provide benefits and when you Epic reincarnate it takes you from 28 back to 20, rinse repeat...
This also lets you remain in the epic levels while you farm out goodies or 20th raid incrementals for named items or shrouds for a cleansing stone.. since you don't lose your incremental timers when you Epic reincarnate.



Personally I would Run Epics and Epic reincarnations while stockpiling TR goodies (Kundarek boots, shroud HP/SP, raise, other clickies) stock up on Tokens for TR stones,
Level up a 2nd toon (probably a caster) to have ready for farming ingredients/other content as needed before jumping into a TR.

[JOTMON]

Either way, you should run Eberron epics until you get enough tokens of the twelve to get a free Heart of Wood. Don't spend money for one, it's SO easy to get 20 tokens now it's not even funny.

That's not true..

It is still funny...

[TEcarson]

5. Favor to a lesser extent like the 400 favor that unlocks drow.. if you TR your favor toon and don't have another one that has unlocked it you could lock yourself out of any Drow toons.

Once you unlock Drow (for example) on the server, it stays unlocked...even if you TR your favor toon.

[DANTEIL]

Once you unlock Drow (for example) on the server, it stays unlocked...even if you TR your favor toon.

Phew! Thanks.. this was going to be my very next question.

I can look into the Challenges again, but to be honest they really aren't my favorite content in the game. I don't do well in these kinds of timed/strategy exercises. I like the idea of trying to go after particular next-life gear, once I come up with a plan for what that will be!

[TrinityTurtle]

For me personally it's simple. If I'm having fun with the toon, great, keep going til cap, tool around til I get bored, and then etr and tr together. If I'm not having fun with the toon, drag it to 20 and try something different.

At the end of the day, it's a game. It's here to entertain you, judge by how entertained you are.

[Fedora1]

A lot of good advice here, let me add a couple other tips as well:

1. Outsider tokens - With a high level toon you can farm these if you can stand the monotony of running Invaders! multiple times. There is some decent TR gear to be had by trading in these tokens and also named gear that can appear in the end chest.

2. Also you could easily farm a bunch of adamantine ore from A Relic of a Sovereign Past for crafting bane shards (if you're into crafting) or to use at the Stone of Change to harden items. You could also trade them for gear for your TR within the quest.

3. While you still have House D favor, make sure to purchase a couple of the large quivers and a few stacks of the +3 sturdy arrows (or bolts) as they do not have a ML requirement.

If I think of more stuff I'll post it as it comes to me.

[Tuffgar]

As some who absolutely abhors farming for gear, and yet is still on my sixth life, I can say that knowing your good exp runs is just as important as having gear waiting at key levels. Being knowledgeable about what to expect can make otherwise painful runs excessively quick.

You may start to understand why people rush or zerg runs instead of going out of the way to complete every optional and gather every chest. A lot of times its better loot and exp per minute to simply run an easy quest two or three times. Also, people will often try to run elite to get that BB chain rolling. Don't be afraid to run hard instead, especially if you're under geared and running an unfamiliar build. Elite BB is huge, and is hands down the most efficient way to level, but only if you can do it in a timely fashion. It might be worth considering zerging hards and normals at top speed multiple times.

I'll leave it up to you to decide what your own skill and build can handle. I know that for myself, without massive depth of farmed green steel items, I find it much faster and simpler to rush hards. I can solo with a hireling and finish two to three runs while people are still in the lfg waiting for an elite.

[Jasparion]

and check out the eveningstar commendation set gear. Easy to get and OP.

Check out the AH. Random loot is nearly as good as named loot. Look for Mastercraft items which also have augment slots. For a small investment you can deck out a toon to be 85% to 90% of someone who has spent weeks or even months farming.

If you have Gianthold, you can earn mats to buy level 16 augments cheaply which are very good. The epic ones are better - but you need to be much higher level to get them.

Or you can just buy them on the AH or AS.

[Theolin]

As a side note before TRing if you do, have at least 500k plat in the bank it is so much easier to get at 20+ & makes buying stuff (pots/scrolls/odds&ends) a non issue

[Tuffgar]

As a side note before TRing if you do, have at least 500k plat in the bank it is so much easier to get at 20+ & makes buying stuff (pots/scrolls/odds&ends) a non issue

I don't know if you need quite that .much plat, but yeah, I used to avoid using consumables. Now I run pots all the time. Scrolls and wands not so much, but mostly because they're a pita to use unless you invest heavily in umd.

[Robbenklopper]

So first, a disclaimer: I have never before reincarnated any of my characters in any form. But, I am now starting to consider it. I have a Human Wizard that is barely over Level 20/Magister and a Bard-barian that is Level 21/Fatesinger. (Plus a smattering of lower level characters.) Each of these two have their strengths and weaknesses, and although their builds are not up to snuff by current standards, I have enjoyed playing them. I have been waiting to see what the new Warchanter changes are like for my Bard (soon!), so my Wizard is probably the guy that I would do this with.

My question is this: How do you know if its better to try to keep leveling up toward cap, even if that goes very slowly, or whether it might be better to TR and start over with something else plus the past life? These guys aren't geared up especially well and so I definitely struggle in on-level quests (and many Level 18-19 quests like Amrath/Reaver's Refuge) which means that the XP comes only with effort and dying. Honestly, I'd enjoy seeing the new level 20+ content more than I would repeating Korthos/Harbor one more time, but I worry that would just be a waste of time on characters that aren't especially prepared for the Epic content. Would it then be better to try out an improved build from Level 1 and go from there? And, is it better to do a TR right at level 20, or is it worth it to try to keep leveling up the Epic Destiny for a bit and maybe improving gear? I don't think I am ever going to be a player that does TR after TR (the time and sunk costs associated with Favor etc. make it painful to contemplate), so when I do TR I want it to make sense for me, especially since I'm going to have to spend TP for the heart of wood to do it. Any guidance welcome!

I agree with the advice the other gave you. Take your time, maybe one or two weeks, check up ddo wiki to farm whatever gear you consider neccessary for your new life from the low+mid+high Levels.
Running for some shard+seal+scroll+item will give you some experience for the "old" quests on epic, and running eveningstar will give you an insight for what´s coming up.

Useful things to bank:

Nice:
- heroic abishai set
- striding +x item
- Rubys of Devotion x for suitable Level
- blurry / ghostly item + a raise dead clicky (check GS items)
- sapphire of fortification 100%
- topaz of deathblock
- lordsmarch weapon with vampirism

Must-haves:
- 1 greensteel weapon and 1 item!
- Set from eveningstar

Optional:
- 1 weapon + 1 item/armor from epic cannith challenge crafting
- 1 epic weapon + 1 epic item/armor from the s+s+s+i crafting