Come on Guys- PVP! Before it's too late...

[vystal]

As a huge fan and player of DDO for many years, it is painful to watch the steady and abrupt decline of the population. It's time for a real PVP system and fast.

Why? Because the end game in ddo has become literally that....the end.

I built a fantastic character, capped him, reincarnated him, capped him again, legend life...and then... *crickets*

It's time to take a note from every other successful mmo and realize that player vs. player competition is the only real, exciting and lasting test of your builds and hard work of leveling your characters. Why do DDO devs insist upon ignoring this??

And don't even start for one second to respond to this by saying DDO already has PVP because it is absolutely pathetic and more importantly, POINTLESS.

You spent a lot of time and made some great improvements to guild ships, now let's take it to the next level and give these guilds a chance to put their guilds to work in battlefield scenarios.
DDO has the mechanics to be one of the most exciting PVP platforms on the web if you would just put the right pieces in place. What are the pieces?

1) Objective based PVP modes- Capture the flag, Conquest, Siege mode, Deathmatch, etc.

2) Bolstering- Multiply hit points and stats by 10X or so in PVP matches so no one can be one shot killed...make it so it takes many strong blows for foes to take any one character down.

3) REWARDS- Guild renown, platinum, xp, and favor with special pvp vendors and special currency for purchasing gear exclusively for pvp that players fight long and hard for with special perks and bonuses applicable only to pvp matches.

Not a fan of pvp? Fine, then don't join pvp matches. You can continue on with questing as always. But for the rest of us, and many other mmo players, it is the most exciting game play.

If you would add PVP as the end-game that never ends I guarantee you will see players new and old swarming back to ddo. Just think about it please...before the tumbleweeds take over every server in the game.

[Ragnarnessaja]

While I greatly enjoy PvP in other games, (and I play some of them exclusively for the PvP experience they offer) to create something like this in DDO would draw massive design resources away from what the majority of people here play the game for: PvE quests and content.

Unfortunately, DDO was never designed to have a PvP aspect. The brawls in the Bars were created as a secondary distraction from the real game - the journey from character creation to capped end game content.

I am sorry that this is something you so passionately want and I respect that desire, but this is one feature that will simply never be implemented due to how radically different it is from the design philosophy that DDO is based on and so far away from what the reason people play this game for is.

[Uska]

Never is the time for PVP in ddo it just isn't a good game for pvp and never will be without ruining the game.

[Ungood]

As a huge fan and player of DDO for many years, it is painful to watch the steady and abrupt decline of the population. It's time for a real PVP system and fast.

Why? Because the end game in ddo has become literally that....the end.

I built a fantastic character, capped him, reincarnated him, capped him again, legend life...and then... *crickets*

It's time to take a note from every other successful mmo and realize that player vs. player competition is the only real, exciting and lasting test of your builds and hard work of leveling your characters. Why do DDO devs insist upon ignoring this??

And don't even start for one second to respond to this by saying DDO already has PVP because it is absolutely pathetic and more importantly, POINTLESS.

You spent a lot of time and made some great improvements to guild ships, now let's take it to the next level and give these guilds a chance to put their guilds to work in battlefield scenarios.
DDO has the mechanics to be one of the most exciting PVP platforms on the web if you would just put the right pieces in place. What are the pieces?

1) Objective based PVP modes- Capture the flag, Conquest, Siege mode, Deathmatch, etc.

2) Bolstering- Multiply hit points and stats by 10X or so in PVP matches so no one can be one shot killed...make it so it takes many strong blows for foes to take any one character down.

3) REWARDS- Guild renown, platinum, xp, and favor with special pvp vendors and special currency for purchasing gear exclusively for pvp that players fight long and hard for with special perks and bonuses applicable only to pvp matches.

Not a fan of pvp? Fine, then don't join pvp matches. You can continue on with questing as always. But for the rest of us, and many other mmo players, it is the most exciting game play.

If you would add PVP as the end-game that never ends I guarantee you will see players new and old swarming back to ddo. Just think about it please...before the tumbleweeds take over every server in the game.

The reason why DDO does not PvP is because of the vast power disparity of the various classes, abilities, builds, and gear combos.

DnD was not a PvP game, for this very reason, DnD was always a Co-Op game.

This is the way it would unfold if they tried to put some serious PvP in DDO.

• All PvP events would be done by min-maxed cookie cutter ideal PvP directed builds that had been developed, tested and proven to near unstoppable by the power gamers and everything else may as well not bother even trying.
• The serves would melt down by the endless complaining about how unbalanced the classes/abilities/items are by the people who did not like the idea of being locked into one build choice.
• DDO is a very complex game, and trying to build enjoyable and balanced PvP in DDO would be a downright nightmare, so the Dev's would try to fix things and screw up PvP to levels that would boggle our minds trying to find some knee-jerk solution without admitting the game would need to be totally re-engineered to be PvP focused.

Other games that lock you into one class, force you to use one style of armor, and one type of weapon can balance PvP quite well, due to the lack of any real variance, and even those games, have many balance issues that can be impossible to resolve without re-inventing a class or ability set. Not to mention in many of those games you have a whole dynamic difference between PvE and PvP Builds and players.

And then there would be the smack talk on the forums and in game, as if we don't have enough problems as it is with egotism, vanity, and pride in this game already.

[vystal]

Thanks for the constructive reply. But of coarse, I have to disagree with a couple of points.

I agree that people are drawn to ddo because of it's pve and questing content, and rich character build system. But we all have to acknowledge that this draw is quickly disappearing. No one can deny how much the server populations have diminished. So much now that it effects the ability to even fill lfm's for which much of the content requires. Something has to be done. I love questing and building my characters as much as any other ddo veteran, but ddo can not survive by just the die hard veterans. And even I have to admit, that my interest for the first time in many years has been at a minimum lately.

I think the fear that development of pvp content would take away from development of new questing content is true, but the fact is, for the amount of time it takes them to create the content that was revealed in the last few updates gets old too fast for the amount of time people have to wait to play it. As cool as Thunderholme, etc. is, after a couple of weeks of conquering everything you find yourself standing around again going now what? Hmmm...maybe i'll put up an lfm up to run something else... *crickets*

The beauty of pvp is that once it is in place it is an always changing environment. No two pvp matches are ever exactly the same. So the replay value is infinite. This is not the case with canned questing. This is why I think the time spent developing pvp would be the best possible move by devs. And let's face it, something has to be done or there won't be enough players left to justify the development of any new content...and we all lose.

[vystal]

^ ^ ^

Well, here we go...before I can even reply to one post, in rolls all the immediate no, won't consider it, it will ruin the game...etc, etc.

Ok then, I pull back my suggestion and relinquish the best interest of the longevity of ddo to the veterans who constantly post on this forum.

Let's have this conversation again a year from now and see where the server population is at for ddo...maybe it'll make more sense then.


" You'd better start swimming or you'll sink like a stone..." Dylan

[cdbd3rd]

... It's time for a real PVP system and fast. ....

Umm, no. No, it isn't.

It was NEVER time for PvP, and it's still not time for PvP. Nor will it ever be time for PvP.

^ ^ ^
...
Let's have this conversation again a year from now and see where the server population is at for ddo...maybe it'll make more sense then....

It will be the same conversation it's been every year so far.

[Ungood]

The beauty of pvp is that once it is in place it is an always changing environment. No two pvp matches are ever exactly the same. So the replay value is infinite. This is not the case with canned questing. This is why I think the time spent developing pvp would be the best possible move by devs. And let's face it, something has to be done or there won't be enough players left to justify the development of any new content...and we all lose.

This is not really true, many of the older MMO's and several of the newer ones, like TERA, GW2, and even Neverwinter have shown a steady decline in the PvP aspect of their game.

I hate to say it, but players are not really all that smart in most cases, they figure out an ideal combo and then stick with it, it's not really that random. In games like GW2, and TERA, when I needed to understand their combat, I simply looked up their builds, and the advice about them, what works and what doesn't and lo and behold, almost everyone played the same kind of build, same kind of gear set, and used almost the same tactics, to the point that they became as a predictable as many NPC's.

PvP is sadly not pulling in the numbers ether, and it's not giving the games "endlessly fresh challenges" like we might be lead to believe.

I have loved the PvP aspects of games like TERA and GW2, I enjoyed them, even games like Dual of Champions (if you like that kind of thing) are grand fun, even if I first walked in as a total carebear, I quickly learned to enjoy the thrill of the kill, but even WvWvW and PvP arena fights grew stale after a few months, it simple does not have the hold unless there is more to it then just PvP, in WvWvW in GW2, they gave rewards, and the like, but in the end, it was just... well... every day the same thing, I win some, I lose some, meh, just back and forth as it would go. I hardly ever felt like I was in a thrilling fight. The best fight I had, was a 2 on 2 in WvWvW, where they killed my partner, and I manged to still win the fight, it was a thrilling blast, to pull that win off, but, in several months of PvP, that happened a grind total of once, most other times I would just get overrun, or many times out classed. I admit it, I am not an amazing PvP player, I am decent, like most people.

Which brings us to the next problem of PvP, if you are not "great" you may as well sit on the sidelines, you're not going to go anyplace, you're never going to pull ahead, and really hearing 'Learn 2 Play' does not build community, we have enough of that with a PvE game, can you imagine the level of snark we would get if went PvP and made it matter.

Case in point, if you made a PvP Dungeon, (your point 3) you can kiss any PuG goodbye on that right there. See here in DDO, players would check the loot list, see if it was worth it, pick what they were after, and then quickly form static groups chosen from Channels/Guilds, and then before they went in, they would pick which side would win, each taking turns getting the loot/rewards/whathaveyou, till they got what they were after. No one would take the risk of a pug in that situation. In fact you would need to prove you were not some upstart snot who was going to disrupt their plans before you got an invite, and doing a jerk move like trying to play hero, or what have you would get you blacklisted pretty quick.

DDO simply does not have the foundation for a good PvP game, quite literally they would need to re-create the game and the class balances from the ground up to really make it work.

As for the decline in players, that has been said for the last 8 years, it's akin to saying the sky is falling. An idea needs to stand on it's own merits to be a good idea for it to be viable, it can't be an idea born of desperation or fear.

[Missing_Minds]

Let's have this conversation again a year from now and see where the server population is at for ddo...maybe it'll make more sense then.

History says... no. Because we have this sort of topic about every 8 months.
Normally listing roughly the same things you already have.

If you really want to make it a solid suggestion, you have to make compelling arguments WITH a vision that is clear cut. Many, yourself included, have never bothered with the latter part. If you need me to make it clear for you I can, but this one is your fight, not mine.

Also, it is too late for PvP to "save" the game. Market logistics show this.

Good luck.

[SirValentine]

I don't want the devs to waste any more time/energy/resources on PvP...

...because it is absolutely pathetic and more importantly, POINTLESS.

If you want a PvP game, go play a PvP game. There's plenty out there.

No need to degrade DDO even more.

[FranOhmsford]

I don't want the devs to waste any more time/energy/resources on PvP...

THIS ^

If you want a PvP game, go play a PvP game. There's plenty out there.

and THIS x 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000!

I only wish the Devs had never stooped to putting any PvP into DDO at all!

[General_Gronker]

A. No. There is enough **** they need to do without wasting developmental resources on this kind of ****.
B. No. Even if they were to do so, your specific ideas are terrible. Seriously, they are not good ideas.
C. No. Boosted PVP (and the accompanying bugs) are not going to "save" DDO.

No thanks.

[Captain_Wizbang]

[azrael4h]

History says... no. Because we have this sort of topic about every 8 months.

Well that's proof the game is dying! Because it used to be every couple of weeks we'd have a topic about adding PVP!

[Vellrad]

pvp in DDO:

energy burst: 1shot win
ruin feat: 1shot win
hellball: 1shot win
adrenaline damageboosted manyshot with slaying arrow: 1 shot win

etcetera

not gonna work, and if they'd decide to implement it, they'd need to nerf spells/skills and it would ruin characters in pve, or try to have spells different effects on players, which would break the code, and destroy lots of things.