How to improve Fighters in regards to paladins

[Pescha]

To bring them up closer to the same level as paladins *soon*, i would suggest changing keen edge to provide both a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier and Threat Range with your focus weapon in order to stay competitive with holy sword.

Feel free to post any other suggestions about how to improve the Kensei enhancements.

[Powskier]

my fighter has better dps than a Pali...I imagine most fighters do as well;unless the paladin is in off destiny class splash or smthing...but this thread mentioned paladins ,not multiclass

[legendkilleroll]

Lmao! yeh centered kensai really needs more added to it

[Pescha]

my fighter has better dps than a Pali...I imagine most fighters do as well;unless the paladin is in off destiny class splash or smthing...but this thread mentioned paladins ,not multiclass

Not as of lammania and soon as of U23, based on the information i have gathered you can be a pure paladin and keep both offensive and defensive capabilites unlike fighters who have to splash to offset their lack of healing, saves and other things though they are still doing less dps (because of their poor crit profile, keen edge vs holy sword)
than the improved Paladin class.

[Scrabbler]

my fighter has better dps than a Pali

What is the crit profile of the Paladin you're comparing to? And are you counting with Haste Boost on or off?

[Chai]

If they did this it would need to be in a core you need 18 levels of the class to get, as this benefit is already earned with 6 monk levels, 3 bard levels, etc....

[Pescha]

If they did this it would need to be in a core you need 18 levels of the class to get, as this benefit is already earned with 6 monk levels, 3 bard levels, etc....

That would be a bit too much because they wouldn't be able to keep both saves and evasion unlike paladins.

[Powskier]

if you mean in lamania testing ,this is wrong place for the thread?

[Pescha]

if you mean in lamania testing ,this is wrong place for the thread?

Not that much before the release and i doubt they are all out to take the pali stuff away, it is the right place to discuss the fighter class because they aren't working on them at the moment (maybe in the future) hence the decision to post it on the general section.

[Scrabbler]

To bring them up closer to the same level as paladins *soon*, i would suggest changing keen edge to provide both a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier and Threat Range

That's something to look at changing... maybe not exactly like that, but something.

Two other big changes needed:

• Make Deadly Strike a good enhancement. Remove the action boost cost, and also improve the benefit. Maybe it can share cooldowns with one of the lower-tier Kensei attacks, and merge in those effects into the same swing. (And of course it should not conflict with One Cut buff)
• Put One With The Blade into a multiselector so you can pick some other strong benefit instead of centered weapons. Right now, it's like the whole Kensei tree is building up towards taking Monk levels. There should be an option in there for someone who'd prefer to stay Fighter, or take Barb or Rogue levels, etc.

Other things to consider:

• Make Good Death do extra damage for targets below 50% hp, with the damage increasing the lower the hp. (Not the strict 20% threshold used now)
• Create a new way to spend Kensei Power Surge charges, to get a defensive buff instead of the normal one. Only one can work at a time, so the player must choose which is better for the situation.
• Create a new Kensei weapon group which includes most kinds of shields PLUS some 1h melee weapons; not the really good melee weapons, but the medium-power ones like Longsword, Battleaxe, and Morningstar. This is for the benefit of Fighter Vanguards. One reason for this change is that Paladins' benefits from KOTC and Holy Sword spell are applying fully to your shield and your weapon.
• Let Fighters take the Tempest tree. The Fighter version would have to adjust Evasive Dance because the character might not have Evasion yet.
• Create a new THF tree shared between Fighters and Barbarians.

[B0ltdrag0n]

That would be a bit too much because they wouldn't be able to keep both saves and evasion unlike paladins.

Then they would not be pure like your previous post said.

[Pescha]

Then they would not be pure like your previous post said.

Paladins and Fighters in general involving multiclassing not just pure as you imply, nowhere have i mentioned such a thing, the part where i discussed pure classes was just an example.

ps. suggestions please.

[Clatterfist]

Holy Sword only requires 14 Paladin levels and so can be combined with any Tier 5, so all buffing Keen Edge would achieve is to create lots of Fighter / Paladins with +2 critical threat range and +2 critical threat multiplier by level 19. Mmm, 15-20/x5 Holy Sword of Shadows pre-Improved Critical and special ability use.

I could see sticking a +1 critical multiplier in the level 20 Kensai core, for pure Fighters maybe, as they don't have an alternative great weapon offensive tree yet. Any monk Kensai is going to have the +1 critical threat multiplier on a roll of 19-20 from Earth Stance anyway, and that really seems like it ought to be enough.

At this stage it's the Barbarians who could really use some help...

[Pescha]

Holy Sword only requires 14 Paladin levels and so can be combined with any Tier 5, so all buffing Keen Edge would achieve is to create lots of Fighter / Paladins with +2 critical threat range and +2 critical threat multiplier by level 19. Mmm, 15-20/x5 Holy Sword of Shadows pre-Improved Critical and special ability use.

I could see sticking a +1 critical multiplier in the level 20 Kensai core, for pure Fighters maybe, as they don't have an alternative great weapon offensive tree yet. Any monk Kensai is going to have the +1 critical threat multiplier on a roll of 19-20 from Earth Stance anyway, and that really seems like it ought to be enough.

At this stage it's the Barbarians who could really use some help...

Holy sword and keen edge are both considered a competence bonus hence they do not stack, earth stance is not an excuse for only having a +1 multiplier on rolls of 19-20 (providing only 5% dps) anyone can splash monk for earth stance especially paladins.

[Chai]

That would be a bit too much because they wouldn't be able to keep both saves and evasion unlike paladins.

That's perfect. Gain power in one area and lose some in another. That's when you know theres balance, when its a debate as to which ability benefits the character more.

A 12 fighter 4 paladin 4 rogue would still have amazing saves and evasion. They lose the 6 monk levels, which provides the +1 crit multiplier youre looking for here......

[Krelar]

Holy sword and keen edge are both considered a competence bonus hence they do not stack, earth stance is not an excuse for only having a +1 multiplier on rolls of 19-20 (providing only 5% dps) anyone can splash monk for earth stance especially paladins.

Keen edge also has feats that require you to take 8 fighter levels so you can't get both anyways.

[Pescha]

Keen edge also has feats that require you to take 8 fighter levels so you can't get both anyways.

This ,which also is very annoying + being forced to take 3 useless feats.

[legendkilleroll]

That's perfect. Gain power in one area and lose some in another. That's when you know theres balance, when its a debate as to which ability benefits the character more.

Thats a problem with some people, they want it all, so they can go solo EE and raids

They dont want balance, just buffs to the build their currently playing and if in any way its nerfed they come to the forums

[Scrabbler]

anyone can splash monk for earth stance especially paladins.

Paladins can't use their melee weapons in Earth Stance though, as they don't have One With The Blade. In fact, I don't even remember if the Holy Sword spell works on Handwraps or not. Maybe not...?

PS. A suggestion to improve Fighters compared to Paladins: fix Slayer of Evil to require evil targets, or at least change the name!

[Clatterfist]

Holy sword and keen edge are both considered a competence bonus hence they do not stack, earth stance is not an excuse for only having a +1 multiplier on rolls of 19-20 (providing only 5% dps) anyone can splash monk for earth stance especially paladins.

Yeah, but they can't use it with good weaponry. That's the role of Kensai, to allow you to be centred with a real weapon. Good catch on Holy Sword not stacking with Keen Edge, but I don't see how Fighter/Monks have a need to have totally equal with Paladins on their critical profiles. +1 range and +1 multiplier on 19-20 (with, eg, Greatswords) is surely close enough to +1 range and +1 multiplier (with, eg, Greatswords) when you consider that Fighter/Monks get more features and more feats than Paladins do? And as for monk weapons, any Paladin / Monk is going to be outdone by a pure Monk ninja with +2 range and +1 multiplier on a 19-20, so what exactly is the issue?