Need help with reviving a Pally/Ranger/Monk build from 2012

[Thozy]

So I've finally returned after 2 years. One of my toons is a lvl 15 Pally/Ranger/Monk (currently 7pally/6ranger/2monk, will end it with 12pally/6ranger/2monk) build.
But now I don't know at all what to do with it, what enhancements to get etc. I can't find the build my toon is based off, so I really don't remember, so I need some help on how to save it. I want it to be playable up to lvl 20 so I can TR it, unless this is still viable for epic content (which I really doubt, and if so, I'm pretty sure it will need a lot of tweaks), then I might run it in epic lvls as well.

My base stats are:
STR: 17
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 8
WIS: 14
CHA: 12

As for feats. I've taken Dodge, Mobility, Toughness, Spring Attack, OTWF, Khopesh, Lightning Reflexes, PA, IC:Slash.

I took some enhancements I thought looked ok and ended up with this:
Human: Human Versatillity: Damage Boost (1), Human Adaptability: Constitution (1)
Sacred Defender: Holy Bastion (1), Extra Lay on Hands (3)
Arcana Archer: AA (1), Morphic Arrows (1), Metalline Arrows (1), Conjure Arrows (1), Corrosive Arrows (1), Force Arrows (3), Terror Arrows (2)
Tempest: Shield of Whirling Steel (1), (Tempest). Improved Defense (3), Whirling Blades (1), Improved Parry (3), Bleed Them Out (3), Spring Boost (1) Critical Accuracy (3), Strength (1), Critical Damage (3), The Growing Storm (3), A Thousand Cuts (3)

EDIT: I'm also pretty sure this was a 28pt build. So how I got 17/14/14/8/14/12 is a mystery to me, I couldn't even get that with 32pt.

EDIT2: I forgot to remove stats from feats etc. I had 16 STR and 13 CONS. still doesn't work with 28pt build though, lol

[unbongwah]

The good news is there ought to be both a LR +0 and LR +20 Hearts of Wood in your inventory; so that gives you plenty of options to rejigger your build. The bad news is you (still) can't have more than 3 classes in your build at any given time while LRing, which can make things problematic if you've got a triple-class build like this and decided you wanted to swap over to a different mix (e.g., rgr/pal/monk -> rgr/ftr/monk).

But let's presume you intend to stick with your original plan and TR once you hit 20 or so. 12P/6R/2M isn't the strongest build combo, but it's not the worst either, and at least you get a pally PL when you TR. Your feats definitely need some improvement, though, IMHO. Did you take any tomes? [You will see them listed as an "inherent" bonus to stats on your char sheet.] The main thing your build is missing is GTWF, which takes DEX 17.

[Thozy]

The good news is there ought to be both a LR +0 and LR +20 Hearts of Wood in your inventory; so that gives you plenty of options to rejigger your build. The bad news is you (still) can't have more than 3 classes in your build at any given time while LRing, which can make things problematic if you've got a triple-class build like this and decided you wanted to swap over to a different mix (e.g., rgr/pal/monk -> rgr/ftr/monk).

But let's presume you intend to stick with your original plan and TR once you hit 20 or so. 12P/6R/2M isn't the strongest build combo, but it's not the worst either, and at least you get a pally PL when you TR. Your feats definitely need some improvement, though, IMHO. Did you take any tomes? [You will see them listed as an "inherent" bonus to stats on your char sheet.] The main thing your build is missing is GTWF, which takes DEX 17.

I guess I should've added tomes and what my stats sit at with gear. I have a +2 tome in STR and +1 tome in DEX, COn, WIS and CHA.

I only want it to be ok to play up to 20 so I can TR it, so the less I can spend on it the better. Even though I guess tomes are always good to have.

Also, I'm pretty sure the build I made this from used tomes enough to get GTWF and maybe some other feats as well, but I could never afford those (I guess).

EDIT: I just went into Orchard to see how the damage was. I was hitting 25-40 on normal attacks and crits were usually 75-90 and once in a while I critted for like 130-140. I can't remember what I hitted with A Thousand Cuts or Bleed Them Out, but I remember A Thousand Cuts did significantly more damage. The saves seems to be ok (25 fort, 20 reflex, 17 will) and LoH heals for 68 (x4), which seems a little low to me, but my CHA is only sitting on 18, so I guess it's not strange.

[unbongwah]

LoH heals for (10 + pal lvl) * CHA mod, so (10+7)*4 = 68. The good news is it will improve with higher CHA and more pally lvls; the bad news is it won't ever be great healing on a heavily-MCed build like this.

Turbine got rid of Gtr Reincarnation and folded it into Lesser Reincarnation. If you've unlocked 32-pt builds, which your other thread indicates you have, you will automatically upgrade a 28-pt build to 32 pts. So that's one incentive to LR; the other is to fix your feats, which are subpar for the current game, IMHO.

Since you didn't mention what order you took your classes in, I don't know if you'll be able to follow this build exactly. Nevertheless, here's what I'd want to do were I in your shoes:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 21 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger \ 1 Epic) 
Hit Points: 276
Spell Points: 205 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     9
Charisma             14                    15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical

I only went to lvl 21 since I presume you plan to TR shortly after hitting epics. Enhancements are open to debate; apart from Div Might, lvl 3 Tempest core (+10% offhand), Haste Boost, and the human enhs (Dmg Boost+heal amp), I don't consider anything really a must-have. Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Atk are no longer pre-reqs for Tempest; but Dodge provides +3% Dodge and opens up Imp Dodge from Tempest, so it seems worth it for your second monk feat. Precision and Toughness are also viable alternatives, depending on whether more ranged DPS or more HPs is more valuable to you.

Right now the best longbow for your level is Bow of Sinew; note both the double crit range and +1x crits on 19-20. Since you're VIP you can farm Harbinger until you get one. A Sustaining Symbiont is also a good idea, particularly if you plan to use a Parasitic Breastplate as well. Although for DPS I prefer black dragonhide.

Emp Heal isn't for CMW so much as Rejuvenation Cocoon. My suggestion once you hit lvl 20 is to start with FotW as your initial ED; level it to 3 so you can unlock your first Twist slot, then jump into Primal Avatar. Level PA enough to max out Rejuv Cocoon, put it in your Twist slot, and switch back to FotW. Voila, like 90% of your early epic healing needs have just been met.

[giftie]

So I've finally returned after 2 years. One of my toons is a lvl 15 Pally/Ranger/Monk (currently 7pally/6ranger/2monk, will end it with 12pally/6ranger/2monk) build.
But now I don't know at all what to do with it, what enhancements to get etc.

Your build can probably be saved if you're willing to spend your +0 lesser heart. I'll assume Monk was taken just for evasion and feats, since your feats include Khopesh. Your build points are uneven, so I'll assume you're a 28-pointer and included level-ups but no tomes. However, there's absolutely no need to start with that high WIS unless you're trying to make a centered build (with Zen Archery). And that's probably what I'd do. Without the Zen Archery.

I suggest 8 Paladin/6 Ranger/6 Monk and rather than Khopeshes use either short swords (if you happen to have two Raider's boxes) or long swords (Oathblades are very nice), and it could be viable in epics.

Stat distribution:

STR: 16 (all level-ups here)
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

You want 17 DEX by level 18 and 23 STR by level 24 so hopefully you have at least a +1 tome in both those two.

You get some free feats, but class order is unknown. I'd give priority to PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC: Piercing, Dodge (free Monk), Deflect Arrows (free Monk), Whirling Steel Strike (free Monk), GTWF (at no later than 18 when you should reach 17 DEX) and Empower Healing. Toughness is probably a good choice for one of the last two feats, and Mobility isn't a horrible option but PBS probably better (although a hassle since bows will uncenter you). If you decide to progress into epics, then Master of Forms as 21, Overwhelming Critical at 24 and Blinding Speed at 27.

Alternatively, and especially if you decide to TR at 20, you could put first level-up in DEX if you don't have a tome, take IC:Piering at 9, Adept of Forms at 12, GTWF at 15, Grandmaster of Forms at 18 (and Empower Healing at 21). This will waste a feat in your build, since you need to buy Adept of Forms but should benefit you more in the long run.

Enhancements something like this:

Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1) 
Enhancement:  Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) 
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)

7 points unspent, you could get Hamp and STR from KotC tree, or Iron Skin if you want to play in Earth Stance.

[Thozy]

LoH heals for (10 + pal lvl) * CHA mod, so (10+7)*4 = 68. The good news is it will improve with higher CHA and more pally lvls; the bad news is it won't ever be great healing on a heavily-MCed build like this.

Turbine got rid of Gtr Reincarnation and folded it into Lesser Reincarnation. If you've unlocked 32-pt builds, which your other thread indicates you have, you will automatically upgrade a 28-pt build to 32 pts. So that's one incentive to LR; the other is to fix your feats, which are subpar for the current game, IMHO.

Since you didn't mention what order you took your classes in, I don't know if you'll be able to follow this build exactly. Nevertheless, here's what I'd want to do were I in your shoes:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 21 Lawful Good Human Female
(12 Paladin \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger \ 1 Epic) 
Hit Points: 276
Spell Points: 205 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 21)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            16                    17
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     9
Charisma             14                    15

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Monk)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Deity) Follower of the Sovereign Host
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Sacrifice (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Reaction (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Dodge (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Bleed Them Out (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Elaborate Parry (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Evasive Dance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Deepwood Stalker (Rgr) - Far Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical

I only went to lvl 21 since I presume you plan to TR shortly after hitting epics. Enhancements are open to debate; apart from Div Might, lvl 3 Tempest core (+10% offhand), Haste Boost, and the human enhs (Dmg Boost+heal amp), I don't consider anything really a must-have. Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Atk are no longer pre-reqs for Tempest; but Dodge provides +3% Dodge and opens up Imp Dodge from Tempest, so it seems worth it for your second monk feat. Precision and Toughness are also viable alternatives, depending on whether more ranged DPS or more HPs is more valuable to you.

Right now the best longbow for your level is Bow of Sinew; note both the double crit range and +1x crits on 19-20. Since you're VIP you can farm Harbinger until you get one. A Sustaining Symbiont is also a good idea, particularly if you plan to use a Parasitic Breastplate as well. Although for DPS I prefer black dragonhide.

Emp Heal isn't for CMW so much as Rejuvenation Cocoon. My suggestion once you hit lvl 20 is to start with FotW as your initial ED; level it to 3 so you can unlock your first Twist slot, then jump into Primal Avatar. Level PA enough to max out Rejuv Cocoon, put it in your Twist slot, and switch back to FotW. Voila, like 90% of your early epic healing needs have just been met.

This looks good, I'll LR into this soon.

I have been running GH Elite this evening and the build (still the old one, no LR yet) is a lot better than I thought, I do respectable amout of damage and I survive without much truble. But I'll LR nontheless.

I already have bow of sinew, and my normal attacks are rather bad (18-30) but my crits are really good (around 180). And I've been using outfits for this build, not armor. I get 4 more AC with outfit than armor (tried with both +5). So shouldn't I continue to use outfits?

Also I just hit lvl 16.

EDIT: I saw that I had a Raider's Reward Box in my inv. Should I get Pinion from it?

EDIT2: For skills, I guess I should take Heal every lvl. Anything good to put the other(s) in or just raise jump/balance? Maybe put some in concentration?

EDIT3: How would this work soloing different difficulties? Both normal and epic.

EDIT4: Just LRed into this. Seems a lot better than what I had. I heal for 108 with LoH now and with Div Might I can self boost my str up to 34 (I think it was). I forgot I had to depends on gear now to cast spells, but that's not really a problem.
Only problem is that since I had lvled in a different way than your build (obviously), I couldn't take PA and Cleave on monk lvl. I had to get PA on lvl 3 Pal. Because of that I ended up with taking Precision on the 2nd lvl of monk, and I sacrificed IC:Ranged for now. I hope to be able to fix this with feat swaps, because I don't think Precision will be of much use to me and IC:Ranged will be a lot better over all too.

[Thozy]

Your build can probably be saved if you're willing to spend your +0 lesser heart. I'll assume Monk was taken just for evasion and feats, since your feats include Khopesh. Your build points are uneven, so I'll assume you're a 28-pointer and included level-ups but no tomes. However, there's absolutely no need to start with that high WIS unless you're trying to make a centered build (with Zen Archery). And that's probably what I'd do. Without the Zen Archery.

I suggest 8 Paladin/6 Ranger/6 Monk and rather than Khopeshes use either short swords (if you happen to have two Raider's boxes) or long swords (Oathblades are very nice), and it could be viable in epics.

Stat distribution:

STR: 16 (all level-ups here)
DEX: 16
CON: 14
INT 8
WIS: 8
CHA: 10

You want 17 DEX by level 18 and 23 STR by level 24 so hopefully you have at least a +1 tome in both those two.

You get some free feats, but class order is unknown. I'd give priority to PA, Cleave, Great Cleave, IC: Piercing, Dodge (free Monk), Deflect Arrows (free Monk), Whirling Steel Strike (free Monk), GTWF (at no later than 18 when you should reach 17 DEX) and Empower Healing. Toughness is probably a good choice for one of the last two feats, and Mobility isn't a horrible option but PBS probably better (although a hassle since bows will uncenter you). If you decide to progress into epics, then Master of Forms as 21, Overwhelming Critical at 24 and Blinding Speed at 27.

Alternatively, and especially if you decide to TR at 20, you could put first level-up in DEX if you don't have a tome, take IC:Piering at 9, Adept of Forms at 12, GTWF at 15, Grandmaster of Forms at 18 (and Empower Healing at 21). This will waste a feat in your build, since you need to buy Adept of Forms but should benefit you more in the long run.

Enhancements something like this:

Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead I (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Courage of Heaven (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Hunter of the Dead II (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Turning (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Extra Smite (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Divine Might (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Vigor of Life (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Knight of the Chalice (Pal) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Holy Bastion (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Divine Righteousness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Sacred Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Extra Lay on Hands (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Durable Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Sacred Defender (Pal) - Resilient Defense (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Shield of Whirling Steel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Tempest (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Improved Defense (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Whirling Blades (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Tempest (Rgr) - Haste Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1)

7 points unspent, you could get Hamp and STR from KotC tree, or Iron Skin if you want to play in Earth Stance.

I guess this would work as well. But I don't want to change my playstyle too much, just make it working till lvl 20. And this one changes my playstyle way too much for my liking. But thanks for the help anyway

[giftie]

EDIT: I saw that I had a Raider's Reward Box in my inv. Should I get Pinion from it?

You don't have to decide what to get until you're level 23 and can actually use what's in the box. Pinion is not a bad choice, but it's actually a quite small step up from Bow of Sinew, whereas upgrading to, say, a Balizarde or Sireth could be huge. My advice would be to wait and make sure you're happy with your class choice and build before you commit to a weapon.

I guess this would work as well. But I don't want to change my playstyle too much, just make it working till lvl 20. And this one changes my playstyle way too much for my liking.

Got it. I wasn't trying you make your build working to 20 as much as I was trying to make it work after 20, though. If you're wearing robes over light armor because it gives better slightly AC, I think you need to prepare for some playstyle changes anyway. Since U14 two years ago, the game emphasizes mitigation (PRR) and avoidance (dodge, incorporeality and concealment) over AC, and a centered 6 Monk provides a lot of that.

[Thozy]

You don't have to decide what to get until you're level 23 and can actually use what's in the box. Pinion is not a bad choice, but it's actually a quite small step up from Bow of Sinew, whereas upgrading to, say, a Balizarde or Sireth could be huge. My advice would be to wait and make sure you're happy with your class choice and build before you commit to a weapon.



Got it. I wasn't trying you make your build working to 20 as much as I was trying to make it work after 20, though. If you're wearing robes over light armor because it gives better slightly AC, I think you need to prepare for some playstyle changes anyway. Since U14 two years ago, the game emphasizes mitigation (PRR) and avoidance (dodge, incorporeality and concealment) over AC, and a centered 6 Monk provides a lot of that.

Yeah, I hadn't planned on chosing anything before lvl 23, but my question wasn't asked quite right by me. But how would a staff or rapier be so much better than continueing using khopeshes after epic when that is what my build is made for? Are there any lack of good end game khopeshes?

That's probably true, I haven't looked into the game changes since I left, which might be smart.

And I might look into your build if I decide to stay after lvl 20 and the build I'm using is lacking something.

PS: I left a little while after U15, maybe maybe U16 just hit before I left.

[unbongwah]

And I've been using outfits for this build, not armor. I get 4 more AC with outfit than armor (tried with both +5). So shouldn't I continue to use outfits?

If you were going for a centered build, I would definitely use outfits; but this isn't intended to be centered. So ignoring AC, it basically boils down to extra PRR (lt armor) vs no MDB / Dodge cap (outfit). The build I posted can hit at least 19% Dodge: 10% item + 3% Dodge feat + 3% Imp Dodge (Tempest) + 3% Acrobatic (Ninja - works even if uncentered). Add an extra 2% Dodge (and +2 MDB) if you find or craft a Mobility item. EDIT: since you're planning to TR, you should also consider what's most useful to your future lives; in particular, if you're going monk / kensei, then outfits make more sense long-term.

EDIT2: For skills, I guess I should take Heal every lvl. Anything good to put the other(s) in or just raise jump/balance? Maybe put some in concentration?

Skills I would max out for this build: UMD, Concentration, and Heal (in that order). Monk lvls I would put all your pts into Balance; and Spot I would max out on rgr lvls. [Maybe Search too with the changes to secret door DCs.] Ranks of Jump should be unnecessary; you can self-buff with Jump +20 and it caps out at 40.

EDIT3: How would this work soloing different difficulties? Both normal and epic.

You should have decent if not remarkable DPS; high Dodge, high saves, & Evasion for decent dmg avoidance (both physical & magical); and some self-healing (no CSW, unfortunately).

I had to get PA on lvl 3 Pal. Because of that I ended up with taking Precision on the 2nd lvl of monk, and I sacrificed IC:Ranged for now. I hope to be able to fix this with feat swaps, because I don't think Precision will be of much use to me and IC:Ranged will be a lot better over all too.

Your feat swapping options will be limited, unfortunately. IC:Ranged isn't a monk bonus feat, so I dunno what you could take that's better than Precision. Maybe Deflect Arrows, since you aren't getting it from Tempest core. Ideally you have Precision+IC:Ranged, but as you may have noticed, this build is a bit feat-constrained.

[Thozy]

If you were going for a centered build, I would definitely use outfits; but this isn't intended to be centered. So ignoring AC, it basically boils down to extra PRR (lt armor) vs no MDB / Dodge cap (outfit). The build I posted can hit at least 19% Dodge: 10% item + 3% Dodge feat + 3% Imp Dodge (Tempest) + 3% Acrobatic (Ninja - works even if uncentered). Add an extra 2% Dodge (and +2 MDB) if you find or craft a Mobility item. EDIT: since you're planning to TR, you should also consider what's most useful to your future lives; in particular, if you're going monk / kensei, then outfits make more sense long-term.

Ok, I'll try to find a good light armor then. Preferably farm black dragonscale armor.

Skills I would max out for this build: UMD, Concentration, and Heal (in that order). Monk lvls I would put all your pts into Balance; and Spot I would max out on rgr lvls. [Maybe Search too with the changes to secret door DCs.] Ranks of Jump should be unnecessary; you can self-buff with Jump +20 and it caps out at 40.

I went with heal ever lvl, some points in jump, a great deal in balance and some in concentration.

Your feat swapping options will be limited, unfortunately. IC:Ranged isn't a monk bonus feat, so I dunno what you could take that's better than Precision. Maybe Deflect Arrows, since you aren't getting it from Tempest core. Ideally you have Precision+IC:Ranged, but as you may have noticed, this build is a bit feat-constrained.

I was thinking on swapping PA for IC:Ranged and Precision with PA. But I forgot that if I were to do that I would have to swap out both cleave and greater cleave first, which will be a pain. I think I'll just go with Precision, mauye get Deflect Arrows isntead at some point.

[unbongwah]

IC:Ranged req's BAB 8, which you don't have until lvl 9; so you wouldn't be able to swap out any of your pre-lvl 9 feats for it anyway.

[giftie]

Yeah, I hadn't planned on chosing anything before lvl 23, but my question wasn't asked quite right by me. But how would a staff or rapier be so much better than continueing using khopeshes after epic when that is what my build is made for? Are there any lack of good end game khopeshes?

I didn't mean they were necessarily better (but they are , but rather that on your subsequent life you might get much more mileage out one of the other weapons.

What Sireth and Balizarde does is increase the crit profile over the weapon. Sireth is +2 range and Balizarde +1 multiplier. This is where most of the damage will come from - but I imagine you know this, since you went for khopeshes. Notably, Balizarde has a better crit profile than most khopeshes (Drow Khopesh being an exception).

Pinion has the same advantage over a regular longbow, but actually has a worse crit profile than Bow of Sinew. Pinion is still better, but not by that much. You'd notice a much larger increase in DPS going from a basic rapier to Balizarde, than from Pinion to Bow if Sinew. Hence I think you'd get more value from your box by choosing another weapon.

Having said that, Thunder Forged weaponry levelled the playing field giving Khopeshes back their edge, but you're looking at a lot of grinding and should probably consider using other weapons until you have enough materials.

[unbongwah]

Pinion has the same advantage over a regular longbow, but actually has a worse crit profile than Bow of Sinew. Pinion is still better, but not by that much. You'd notice a much larger increase in DPS going from a basic rapier to Balizarde, than from Pinion to Bow if Sinew.

I presume you meant "from Bow of Sinew to Pinion." And are you sure about that? Yes, the crit specs are basically the same, but Pinion has significantly higher base dmg, ranged alacrity 20% (even if you're perma-hasted, that's still +5% atk speed), Shrieking / Wailing, and Seeker +10 instead of +8. All of which ought to add up to a significant boost to DPS.

Regardless, though, it won't matter to the OP for another 7 levels and may not matter at all if he TRs before then.

[giftie]

I presume you meant "from Bow of Sinew to Pinion." And are you sure about that? Yes, the crit specs are basically the same, but Pinion has significantly higher base dmg, ranged alacrity 20% (even if you're perma-hasted, that's still +5% atk speed), Shrieking / Wailing, and Seeker +10 instead of +8. All of which ought to add up to a significant boost to DPS.

Regardless, though, it won't matter to the OP for another 7 levels and may not matter at all if he TRs before then.

Someone did the math a long time ago, in a thread far, far away. At obscene levels of STR (or DEX), Sinew actually surpassed Pinion due to better crit profile. Without Dance of Flowers, Pinion loses even more of its advantage.

I thought Haste gave 22% ranged alacrity? And I imagine one would slot seeker elsewhere on a Khopesh build.

Yes, for all intents and purposes Pinion is better, but I still maintain its not _that_ much better.