Need help with Monkcher

[Thozy]

So I wanted to try out a monkcher, but I can't really seem to a detailed 32pt build on the forums. (and I'm back from a 2 years break so there is a lot of new things too me, so at least for now I can't do my own tweaks to builds I find).

I'd like a normal monkcher (32pt build as stated), but I must say I'm rather fond of TWP (especially khopesh), so if it would be possible to fit in without taking away much of the original monkcher that had been cool.

I don't neseccarily need a new build, you can also show me a build already on the forums and just tell me what kind of tweaks I need to do with it.

[unbongwah]

Most of the monkcher builds you'll find are geared towards TRs with tomes out the wazoo. Since this is a first-lifer, you'll obviously be more constrained. What do you have to work with in terms of tomes, races, P2P classes besides monk, etc.?

[Purkilius]

Well you can change the Cetus build and pick up TWF instead of THF 10k stars instead of completionist but it would be hard to find a place for the khopesh feat...

you would need to lower strength and charisma to get your desired stats but I think it is well doable

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...forged-Fighter

Edit: stunning blow can be sacrificed for khopesh

[Thozy]

Most of the monkcher builds you'll find are geared towards TRs with tomes out the wazoo. Since this is a first-lifer, you'll obviously be more constrained. What do you have to work with in terms of tomes, races, P2P classes besides monk, etc.?

I'm a VIP so every thing. Not too sure on what tomes I can get though. I'll have to check out how much they cost on Auction House first.

EDIT: Doesn't seem like there are many up for sale at all. So for now I'll say +2 tomes.

[Raoull]

Are you sure you want a "Monkcher"? You mention Kopeshes in there....

Usually Moncher refers to a toon that exploits 10K Stars and Manyshots to be sending tons of arrows out most of the time. It is usually a full time archer. Most don't melee at all, or perhaps only to recharge some Ki while 10KS/MS are on cooldown (which isn't all that often).

Perhaps you'd rather a TWF toon that pulls out a bow to Manyshot on occasion. Even with a heavy Monk splash going on, that isn't really a moncher.

You could go Figher 8, Monk 6, Ranger 6 and do that pretty well, even on a first life build (although obviously some things will need to be cut). It would focus on melee more than ranged, but manyshot would give it a pretty substantial DPS burst. Or if the Monk part is more optional, this can be done by any ranger or ranger mutt.

Mind you, you could try to live some where between these two ideas (A: full time archer, B: mostly melee with manyshot burst), but it will be more difficult to fit in necessary feats and figure out playstyle.

[Thozy]

Are you sure you want a "Monkcher"? You mention Kopeshes in there....

Usually Moncher refers to a toon that exploits 10K Stars and Manyshots to be sending tons of arrows out most of the time. It is usually a full time archer. Most don't melee at all, or perhaps only to recharge some Ki while 10KS/MS are on cooldown (which isn't all that often).

Perhaps you'd rather a TWF toon that pulls out a bow to Manyshot on occasion. Even with a heavy Monk splash going on, that isn't really a moncher.

You could go Figher 8, Monk 6, Ranger 6 and do that pretty well, even on a first life build (although obviously some things will need to be cut). It would focus on melee more than ranged, but manyshot would give it a pretty substantial DPS burst. Or if the Monk part is more optional, this can be done by any ranger or ranger mutt.

Mind you, you could try to live some where between these two ideas (A: full time archer, B: mostly melee with manyshot burst), but it will be more difficult to fit in necessary feats and figure out playstyle.

I did leave it as a little side note. And due to me being away for so long, I'm not quite sure how everything works, hence I don't quite know how to monkcher is to the fullest.

And I guess I could do something like that, but I want to try out the monkcher first at least, it sounds pretty fun imo. And if I were to make my own build right now, it would probably turn out to me mediocre at best, so I will give that a wait before I try out.

[Thozy]

Well you can change the Cetus build and pick up TWF instead of THF 10k stars instead of completionist but it would be hard to find a place for the khopesh feat...

you would need to lower strength and charisma to get your desired stats but I think it is well doable

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...forged-Fighter

Edit: stunning blow can be sacrificed for khopesh

Giving up 10k stars would destroy the whole idea. So I guess we'll leave that out of the picture

[Mercureal]

Giving up 10k stars would destroy the whole idea. So I guess we'll leave that out of the picture

I think he's suggesting you take 10K Stars in place of the Completionist feat taken in the reference build.

I'll note that going fulltime archer will be hard while levelling, since archery (even with 10K/MS) won't do enough damage to kill most things before they get into melee range. You'll be forced to either go slow and try to aggro mobs one at a time, or run backwards a lot while you're shooting. And using a khopesh will uncenter you, making it impossible to refill your ki from melee - unless you go with a centred kensai approach, which you still can't access until level 12 anyway.

[unbongwah]

The biggest change to monkchers has been the Enhancement overhaul: the good news is Turbine dropped the feat pre-reqs and beefed up the AA tree (most of which you can access with just 6 rgr lvls, so you no longer have to be an elf or HE to be 90% AA); the downside is you can only take one tier-5 enhancement from any PrE. In your case, if you really want a centered build using khopeshes (or anything besides short swords), you need Keen Edge + One w/Blade from the Kensei tree, which would prevent you from taking Slaying Arrow from AA. So right off the bat, you have to decide if melee or ranged DPS is more important to you.

If you're willing to go with rapiers instead of khopeshes, have a look at Santa's Little Slayer. Right now Elven Grace is the only way to get DEX-to-dmg with longbows. SLS is DEX-based with enough STR to qualify for Overwhelming Crit; however if you're willing to give up OC, you can free up several pts from STR to go into WIS instead.

EDIT: did you come back in time to take advantage of the 8th anniversary event?

[Thozy]

I think he's suggesting you take 10K Stars in place of the Completionist feat taken in the reference build.

I'll note that going fulltime archer will be hard while levelling, since archery (even with 10K/MS) won't do enough damage to kill most things before they get into melee range. You'll be forced to either go slow and try to aggro mobs one at a time, or run backwards a lot while you're shooting. And using a khopesh will uncenter you, making it impossible to refill your ki from melee - unless you go with a centred kensai approach, which you still can't access until level 12 anyway.

Oops. I misread it as "pick up TWF instead of 10k stars", my mistake.

And I also figured I'd be uncentered with khopesh after giving it some thought. I had completely forgotten monks had the whole centered thing.

[Thozy]

The biggest change to monkchers has been the Enhancement overhaul: the good news is Turbine dropped the feat pre-reqs and beefed up the AA tree (most of which you can access with just 6 rgr lvls, so you no longer have to be an elf or HE to be 90% AA); the downside is you can only take one tier-5 enhancement from any PrE. In your case, if you really want a centered build using khopeshes (or anything besides short swords), you need Keen Edge + One w/Blade from the Kensei tree, which would prevent you from taking Slaying Arrow from AA. So right off the bat, you have to decide if melee or ranged DPS is more important to you.

If you're willing to go with rapiers instead of khopeshes, have a look at Santa's Little Slayer. Right now Elven Grace is the only way to get DEX-to-dmg with longbows. SLS is DEX-based with enough STR to qualify for Overwhelming Crit; however if you're willing to give up OC, you can free up several pts from STR to go into WIS instead.

EDIT: did you come back in time to take advantage of the 8th anniversary event?

I see now that if I'd like to TWF with khopeshes and have nice ranged DPS there are other and better builds suited that the monkcher. It just drains too much from it and will probably make it quite inferior to normal monkcher builds.

For now I want to try out the monkcher, and if I find the lack of meleeing too unbearable for my taste. I'll try out a TWF with Ranged.

And sadly no. I came back only a few days ago.

[JamesNiels]

The biggest change to monkchers has been the Enhancement overhaul: the good news is Turbine dropped the feat pre-reqs and beefed up the AA tree (most of which you can access with just 6 rgr lvls, so you no longer have to be an elf or HE to be 90% AA); the downside is you can only take one tier-5 enhancement from any PrE. In your case, if you really want a centered build using khopeshes (or anything besides short swords), you need Keen Edge + One w/Blade from the Kensei tree, which would prevent you from taking Slaying Arrow from AA. So right off the bat, you have to decide if melee or ranged DPS is more important to you.

If you're willing to go with rapiers instead of khopeshes, have a look at Santa's Little Slayer. Right now Elven Grace is the only way to get DEX-to-dmg with longbows. SLS is DEX-based with enough STR to qualify for Overwhelming Crit; however if you're willing to give up OC, you can free up several pts from STR to go into WIS instead.

EDIT: did you come back in time to take advantage of the 8th anniversary event?

Isnt it also possible to get dex to damage with longbows by taking zen archery and adv. ninja training? Not 100% sure but i think my friend got dex to damage this way. Not sure either if u got room for the feat, just saying.

[unbongwah]

Isnt it also possible to get dex to damage with longbows by taking zen archery and adv. ninja training?

Not anymore: that was bugfixed a while ago.

[Lonnbeimnech]

So I wanted to try out a monkcher, but I can't really seem to a detailed 32pt build on the forums. (and I'm back from a 2 years break so there is a lot of new things too me, so at least for now I can't do my own tweaks to builds I find).

I'd like a normal monkcher (32pt build as stated), but I must say I'm rather fond of TWP (especially khopesh), so if it would be possible to fit in without taking away much of the original monkcher that had been cool.

I don't neseccarily need a new build, you can also show me a build already on the forums and just tell me what kind of tweaks I need to do with it.

If you want to twf and switch to bow for manyshot, that's a ranger. any kind of 6 ranger 14 of whatever, be it monk or barbarian or druid or paladin or more ranger would work.


The whole point of monkcher is to have both manyshot and 10k stars, so that with both of those going, the amount of downtime between multiple arrows being shot is so small that you don't have to ever put the bow down.

[Eclaveriia]

What makes a monkcher a monkcher is the use of both 10k stars and manyshot on one build. Their is no reason a Monk6/Ranger6/Fighter8 cant do monkcher and 2 weapon Kopesh Fighting and still get the core of what is needed to be a monkcher..

[Eclaveriia]

I'll note that going fulltime archer will be hard while levelling, since archery (even with 10K/MS) won't do enough damage to kill most things before they get into melee range. You'll be forced to either go slow and try to aggro mobs one at a time, or run backwards a lot while you're shooting. And using a khopesh will uncenter you, making it impossible to refill your ki from melee - unless you go with a centred kensai approach, which you still can't access until level 12 anyway.

He has 6 levels of ranger. Paralyzing arrows works wonders in that department. Take 6 levels of ranger first. That nets you manyshot and improved 2 weapon fighting. It also gives enough AP's to get paralyzing arrows before level 8. He wont have the wisdom to make good use of 10k stars before level 12 anyhow. At level 12+ I was soloing as a pure ranger just fine as a pure archer with manyshot, improved precise shot, and paralyzing arrows. Its very doable.

back to the OP's question. The main reason why I would avoid Kopeshes on a Monkcher is that they are not centered weapons. That may hurt Ki generation with respect to Fueling manyshot and Centering a Kophesh is a Tier 5 Kensai Ability.

This is a monkcher build I was working on myself. It has tomes in it but maybe it can help you get an idea of what you want. Once you get 6 ranger and 6 monk at 12 the remaining 8 levels can be practically anything a LG character can take. The level 26 and 28 Toughness feats are placeholders until I find what I decide what to put their.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Eclaveriia 
Level 28 Lawful Good Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 6 Monk \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 438
Spell Points: 541 
BAB: 18\18\23\28\28
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 21
Will: 23

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             16                    23
Dexterity            16                    21
Constitution         11                    17
Intelligence          8                    13
Wisdom               17                    32
Charisma              8                    13

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14
+5 Tome of Strength used at level 18
+5 Tome of Dexterity used at level 18
+5 Tome of Constitution used at level 18
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 18
+5 Tome of Wisdom used at level 18
+5 Tome of Charisma used at level 18

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               3                    37
Bluff                -1                    11
Concentration         4                    45
Diplomacy            -1                    11
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle               -1                    11
Heal                  3                    19
Hide                  5                    23
Intimidate           -1                    12
Jump                  7                    27
Listen                3                    22
Move Silently         5                    23
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                     9
Search               -1                    12
Spellcraft           -1                     9
Spot                  7                    45
Swim                  7                    24
Tumble                n/a                  17
Use Magic Device      1                    20

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Human Bonus) Zen Archery
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Cleave
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 4 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)


Level 5 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Wisdom (Rank 1)


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 3)


Level 8 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Negotiator (Rank 1)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Harmonious Balance: Fists of Light
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Negotiator (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 1)


Level 10 (Monk)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Contemplation (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 1)


Level 11 (Monk)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2)


Level 12 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Master of Forms
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Ten Thousand Stars
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Runebow (Rank 1)


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1)


Level 16 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Construct
Enhancement: Human - Human Versatility: Saves Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)


Level 17 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Human - Human Adaptability: Constitution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 2)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Grandmaster of Forms
Enhancement: Human - Focused (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)


Level 19 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Human - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Human - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Human - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Toughness


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Great Wisdom


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Toughness