I miss the assassin class

[krimsonrane]

the title is enough. I regret sharing my sentiments and I don't want to prove any points.

[Grace_ana]

I still played my rogue assassin at cap after the changes, and she was still effective and a lot of fun. I can't wait to finish her TRs and play her again. It sounds like you perhaps need to adapt. Perfected builds had to change and always will end up changing.

Also, no one else got assassinate. Please don't start equating all potential insta-death with assassinate. There are vital differences between assassinate and coup de grace that go directly to the core class features.

[thegreatneil]

I really miss playing a rogue assassin. That was and is my favorite class. I spent years developing ways to make them awesome. When DDO expanded the level cap they got left behind as DC's for high level and elite content became too high to adapt. Everyone but them was getting bonuses to keep up.
Now with U22 giving assassinate to bards and anyone with a bard splash I suspect the assassin has been marginalized and shelved until further notice. There really is no room for variation anyway with the current DC demands.

I like where you've been going with characters and variations. I just wish someone would show some love for the assassin. There was a time when our main power wasn't allowed to work in epic quests.
This is worse.


PS; Title should have said PRE class

Currently I believe you can get an assassinate of 72-74.
Please tell me where this wouldn't work.

[PermaBanned]

I really miss playing a rogue assassin. That was and is my favorite class. I spent years developing ways to make them awesome. When DDO expanded the level cap they got left behind as DC's for high level and elite content became too high to adapt. Everyone but them was getting bonuses to keep up.

Um, no. Ever since the cap raise it's been a game of whack-a-mole as they try to boost those left behind while nerfing back into line those that got too far ahead. Maybe you're too new to remember all the "DC Casters are dead" threads - here's a hint: they sounded a lot like this one

Now with U22 giving assassinate to bards and anyone with a bard splash I suspect the assassin has been marginalized and shelved until further notice. There really is no room for variation anyway with the current DC demands.

Bards are not getting Assassinate, far from it. With Assassinate you can (attempt to) instakill anything that isn't agro'd on you with a very short cool down timer. With Coup de'Grace (spelling?) you can (attempt to) Instakill something under the effect of CC once every 12 seconds.

Let me put it this way: an assassin and a bard walk into a room with 14 mobs in it, an the bard fascinates them all. When they both go about using their instakills, who do you think is going to comeout higher in kill count? - hint: not the guy who can only do it once every 12 seconds.

[cronusdeathspell]

Um, no. Ever since the cap raise it's been a game of whack-a-mole as they try to boost those left behind while nerfing back into line those that got too far ahead. Maybe you're too new to remember all the "DC Casters are dead" threads - here's a hint: they sounded a lot like this one

Bards are not getting Assassinate, far from it. With Assassinate you can (attempt to) instakill anything that isn't agro'd on you with a very short cool down timer. With Coup de'Grace (spelling?) you can (attempt to) Instakill something under the effect of CC once every 12 seconds.

Let me put it this way: an assassin and a bard walk into a room with 14 mobs in it, an the bard fascinates them all. When they both go about using their instakills, who do you think is going to comeout higher in kill count? - hint: not the guy who can only do it once every 12 seconds.

Assassinate is every 15 seconds.

[-Zephyr-]

Um, no. Ever since the cap raise it's been a game of whack-a-mole as they try to boost those left behind while nerfing back into line those that got too far ahead. Maybe you're too new to remember all the "DC Casters are dead" threads - here's a hint: they sounded a lot like this one

Bards are not getting Assassinate, far from it. With Assassinate you can (attempt to) instakill anything that isn't agro'd on you with a very short cool down timer. With Coup de'Grace (spelling?) you can (attempt to) Instakill something under the effect of CC once every 12 seconds.

Let me put it this way: an assassin and a bard walk into a room with 14 mobs in it, an the bard fascinates them all. When they both go about using their instakills, who do you think is going to comeout higher in kill count? - hint: not the guy who can only do it once every 12 seconds.

Assassinate having a 15 seconds cooldown, and a much lower hypotetical DC ; I think you might be wrong.

[moo_cow]

Currently I believe you can get an assassinate of 72-74.
Please tell me where this wouldn't work.

Stormhorns, if my old 80 stunning first (fort save) dc couldn't work on them all the time then a 72-74 probably won't either. You might get them on every 1 out of 3-4 attempts I guess.

[PermaBanned]

Assassinate is every 15 seconds.

Assassinate having a 15 seconds cooldown, and a much lower hypotetical DC ; I think you might be wrong.

O.o? Rose colored memory on my part then? Granted, I don't have an assassin currently in my stable, but when I did run one I don't remember it being that long of a cool down. Was it shorter pre enhancement pass?

Anyway, appologies for the bad timing comparison.

[Azriel_Angelus]

EE Stormhorns have extremely high fort saves, i know that from my old quiv palm monk when you get the dc to 90+, and still fail about half the time (unless it was one of the flimsy casters).

*Edit i think my dc was 92, but I can't find any screenshots confirming this. (PDK maxed wis build with a lot of cha for additonal 1/3 mod)

[MangLord]

I seem to remember the cooldown being much shorter pre U19. I could be mistaken. It seems to take forever now.

[thunir]

Stormhorns, if my old 80 stunning first (fort save) dc couldn't work on them all the time then a 72-74 probably won't either. You might get them on every 1 out of 3-4 attempts I guess.

My Warchanter could easily get a 100+ perform skill. The DC is 1d20 + Perform Modifier isnt it?

[Saekee]

there are other instakills as well, such as the dex-based Executioner's Strike/Shot in Shadowdancer ED. It has a lengthy cooldown and only has a chance to work 30% of the time; there is also the tier 6 Consume instakill which works continuously for ten seconds. The tree is rogue-favored but can work for ninjas and other classes.

I suppose the ability to render a mob automatically helpless is pretty much an instakill with the right enhancements.

Rogue assassins are more than just the assassinate too. . .

[Erdrique]

I always liked my assassin and I also am looking forward to getting back to that rogue build once I finish his heroic TR lives. The DCs for assassinate might be an issue, but they are different play strategies and different uses between the Assassin Rogue and Swashbuckler Bard. I personally think that neither one trivializes the other.

[thegreatneil]

Rogue assassins are more than just the assassinate too. . .

^This^

[CThruTheEgo]

Could assassins use a bit of a boost? Maybe. Are they dead? Definitely not.

You've been bemoaning the death of assassins for a while now krimsonrane, but your feelings are misplaced. You're rogue build (iirc you played the assassin with an ESoS?) might be outdated, but that doesn't mean the assassin is dead. It just means you need to learn how to adapt. And maybe you don't want to do that because the kind of build you have to play to adapt isn't fun for you, and that's fine. But since many of us successfully play our assassins in upper level EE content and enjoy it very much, the assassin is obviously not dead. You just don't like your options. Sorry for that, but that is the nature of this game and of life — everything changes. This game is one big lesson in impermanence. You either accept the changes and learn to make do with what you have or you get disappointed, just like any other change you face in life. That's just how it is.

[Nédime]

Could assassins use a bit of a boost? Maybe. Are they dead? Definitely not.

This. They could use some love but they're definitely not dead.

[goodspeed]

assassinate or not when you force an extra 90 to 100+ dmg a hit. I don't think all is bad.

[krimsonrane]

Could assassins use a bit of a boost? Maybe. Are they dead? Definitely not.

You've been bemoaning the death of assassins for a while now krimsonrane, but your feelings are misplaced. You're rogue build (iirc you played the assassin with an ESoS?) might be outdated, but that doesn't mean the assassin is dead. It just means you need to learn how to adapt. And maybe you don't want to do that because the kind of build you have to play to adapt isn't fun for you, and that's fine. But since many of us successfully play our assassins in upper level EE content and enjoy it very much, the assassin is obviously not dead. You just don't like your options. Sorry for that, but that is the nature of this game and of life — everything changes. This game is one big lesson in impermanence. You either accept the changes and learn to make do with what you have or you get disappointed, just like any other change you face in life. That's just how it is.

The esos was a flavor build. I've played 9 rogue lives. 8 of them were assassins.

[01000010]

coup de grac is better than assassinate, no doubt about it.

1. Requires 5 levels of bard and skillpoints only for maxed dc, every lvl you don't take on an assassin lowers dc directly, yeah you can do some tricks to compensate with other classes, but those same tricks would work with cdg without the sacrifice. (and 3 bard SB core is ridiculous)

2. cdg has a lesser cooldown.

3. cdg doesn't require stealth in the slightest to work.

4. cdg can be done at range.

5. Assassin doesn't have stat synergy with dagers, no int to damage enhancement. Bards can choose chaisma(perform/cdg mod) to damage if they want.

6. There are plenty of easy ways to cc single targets for any class, some from class enhancements, some from eds, some no fail, some ranged. cdg builds have 15 levels to play with, not that they need it, there is no fail cc in the SB tree.

Does all that mean assassins are dead? nah, they still have some perks, sneak damage, rog only feats, trap skills. but it certainly means they wont be the best melee instakiller, although idk if cdg can do the double assassinate like an assassin can without using ranged and imp prec shot at least.

What REALLY bothers me is why a bard can use int to damage but an assassin cant, that just seems like a personal attack against assassins, lol.

[bsquishwizzy]

I’m going to be one of those guys that says that they’ve screwed up rogues in general.

Pre-Enhancement Pass, my rogue was squishy, but survivable. This was with a toughness feat taken at lvl 1, and various enhancements to boost HP. After the enhacement pass? To get an equivalent – with gear – I’d need two toughness feats…just for survivability. Same class. Same race. Same equipment.

Shiv is useless.

Not even sure if Poison Affinity even works. If it does, I’m not seeing the effectiveness when dumping points into it.

Bleed Them Out is probably the only useful addition to the PrE, along with Poisoned Blades. Even with that, the damage done is both situational and marginal.

Traps? Pffth! Trap-making is a joke, and has been for some time now.

You can’t assassinate someone with Death Ward. I don’t get that, honestly. So, now my usefulness is taking out trash as opposed to high-value targets.

(And before someone tells me that Death Ward doesn’t prevent assassination, I just ran several runs of Servants of the Overlord and Spinner of Shadows on heroic elite. Each assassination attempt failed on those Drow priestesses, and the Death Ward symbol appeared every single time. Death Ward is preventing assassination.)

They’ve jacked-up rogues in general. It doesn’t surprise me that someone is complaining about them crapping all over assassins.