Barbarians are underrated...

[Nayus]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

[Bonulino]

To some extent, Silver Flame Pots are overrated. They are expensive and they only stack 10 at a time so they take up lots of space in your backpack. And in order to make sure that you don't become helpless for 30 seconds once you drink the pot, you have to invest resources of some sort into increasing things like Wisdom and Intelligence above 10, even though these stats don't otherwise help you much. And that is on top of things like your Strength and Constitution getting socked for 10 points for the 30 seconds. I would like the Silver Flame Pots a lot more if there wasn't such a steep penalty for using them.

[Paleus]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

Huh? Silver flame pots, as mentioned by the other poster, have some significant drawbacks when compared to other forms of healing that barbarians are locked out of. If they were that great, then why aren't other classes using them? Simple answer, things like rejuvenation cocoon that don't come with the same penalties also can scale the healing they offer quite well, provide heal over time effects, and an HP buffer. Turbine seriously needs to overhaul those pots before come close to being a comparable means of self-healing.

Even then, what would being a barbarian offer that any other class using those pots couldn't offer? Compare divine might to rages. Rages increase your strength by a static number that is adjusted to heroic levels. Divine might increases strength based on charisma score, and that can scale into epics as it functions off of things like gear that are scaled into epics. Or compare damage mitigation, a typical melee may be casting displacement from scrolls or using ninja for incorporeal or paladin for save boosts, all of which barbarians are effectively locked out of. In contrast, a pure barbarian could conceivably get a con bonus to spell resistance. Which while nice, would mean forgoing any benefit of multi-classing and focusing significant enhancement points to pursuing it means less available for boosting dps.

So, while heroic classes tend to just be a base that the epic class is built on top of, the barbarian base offers so little compared to its alternatives that is little surprise they are a rare breed these days. Sure, some people can play them well, but that don't mean they don't need some serious love, and silver flame pots ain't it.

(Side note: was this all an elaborate ruse to get the ball rolling on discussing boosts to barbarians or silver flame pots by posting an obvious strawman. Because if so....well played, though its already been well noted)

[alvarego]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

Don't
Have/Like
Necro
Packs

[Miahoo]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

I think you meant "Divines are overrated" :P

[stoopid_cowboy]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

As said earlier, SF pots are overrated. However, they are the only thing that barb's have for survival.
Barbs need help. Barbs need more than laughable DR!!! 5dr/barb level anyone?

[Qhualor]

Silver
Flame
Pots
=D

The best healing for barbs, but also the only healing in game that penalizes you.

[MagicBlue]

Maybe i mad but i find this thread very strange...

best healing for barbarians are the clerics.

[Bonulino]

Maybe i mad but i find this thread very strange...

best healing for barbarians are the clerics.

You are correct. However, the current obsession with self healing and the mockery of all those who aren't leaves the Barbarians scrambling for a way to survive. It would be nice to not be part of a dieing breed.

[alvarego]

Maybe i mad but i find this thread very strange...

best healing for barbarians are the clerics.

Of course the best healing are clerics, and how many you find around? and how many of those do actualy heal? ... not enough

[Bonulino]

Of course the best healing are clerics, and how many you find around? and how many of those do actualy heal? ... not enough

My Cleric toon was built to heal and when she runs that is what she does. I don't know why so few other Clerics want to heal.

[Nayus]

====They are expensive
Actually, they're far more HP/plat efficient than Cure Serious Wounds Pots. You're saving money. Also, they're expensive for Heroic levels where trash loot weapons sell for 200pp, in Epics they sell for 1,2k. And Barbarians ARE pretty cheap to gear compared to other builds.

====only stack 10 at a time so they take up lots of space in your backpack.
Not really, dedicate 10 slots for SF Pots and you already have 100 pots, far more than enough for any quest out there barring extremely long or tough ones. Barbs can't use clickies or scrolls 90% of the time, you might actually be using less space than most characters. Traveling to the bank after every few quests is a pain though but that's what Turbine gave us Fast Movement and 15+ Sprint Boosts for.

====increasing things like Wisdom and Intelligence above 10
Read a tome O.o'

====Strength and Constitution getting socked for 10 points for the 30 seconds
Constitution isn't nerfed.
Losing damage is a fact though, can't deny it.

====Healing available for other classes
You people are aware Coccoon in Epic Elite will rarely hit more than once, right? Relying on Coccoon is the reason why so many people fail so hard at EE.

[PsychoBlonde]

The pots you get for turning in collectibles are actually pretty good. I believe you can get Greater pots in some places and those heal you quite a bit more than silver flame pots do (over time, granted) without the drawbacks.

[01000010]

DDO gives a TON of self healing options, even to barbarians. The problem most barbarians have is they simply refuse to not always be raged because they are too worried about kill counts, all you have to do is see rage as a temporary buff and you have all the same healing ability that a fighter would, simple as that... Dismiss rage and coccon, heal scroll, whatever, not rocket science.

Also, ill add barbs get more skillpoints than fighters to spend on umd.

[01000010]

"====Healing available for other classes
You people are aware Coccoon in Epic Elite will rarely hit more than once, right? Relying on Coccoon is the reason why so many people fail so hard at EE."

If you stand in the middle of 3 mobs expecting a miracle then yeah coccon will HELP you fail in ee, but its not cocoon that's the root cause there. CC, maneuvering, defenseive options like displacement, incorp(even 10%), prr, people were soloing EE on melees long before bladeforged, yeah recon is better than coccoon but coccoon is totally reliable healing if you arent a doorstop.

[Nayus]

DDO gives a TON of self healing options, even to barbarians. The problem most barbarians have is they simply refuse to not always be raged because they are too worried about kill counts, all you have to do is see rage as a temporary buff and you have all the same healing ability that a fighter would, simple as that... Dismiss rage and coccon, heal scroll, whatever, not rocket science.

Also, ill add barbs get more skillpoints than fighters to spend on umd.

And then play a Fighter that doesn't have any extra feats.
If you Dismiss Rage everytime you take damage you just won't be able to be raged at all.

[01000010]

And then play a Fighter that doesn't have any extra feats.
If you Dismiss Rage everytime you take damage you just won't be able to be raged at all.

Wow, you heal every time you take damage? That would make cocoon suck, lol.

[MagicBlue]

Of course the best healing are clerics, and how many you find around? and how many of those do actualy heal? ... not enough

And in this case the problem is in DDO mechanic?
No, the problem is in who plays it. And i am sorry if someone is offended, but when DDO had less children than today playing it, everything worked fine. Barbarian were healed and there were clerics that did their work. And many.

[Nayus]

Wow, you heal every time you take damage? That would make cocoon suck, lol.

Have you ever played Epic Elite before? 2~3 and you're at imminent risk of dying.

[MangLord]

In my experience, pots have never been enough to keep a barbarian alive (reliably) in HE. They might be great in HH or HN, who knows? Barbarians are fun, and I'd like to enjoy them more, but you just get chewed up in epic levels. I find that I need a nanny hire even in Epic Normal and i have to make sure it isn't blocked by a door running into a fight.

With the new enhancements, I find my pure dwarf greataxe kensei fighter doing more damage with stacking racial and kensei bonuses. I always expected barbarian to have THF bonuses built into a tree. I think the Devs failed here. Ear smash and some barbarian abilities help, but they don't do enough to mitigate the lack of self healing vs incoming damage. Barbarian will saves are junk, and there's really nothing to offset that disadvantage. Horc will save bonuses help, but you're still left with a weak will save even with resistance gear. I would expect barbarians to be the best source of raw melee damage, but that isn't the case. For all the minuses, there aren't a lot of pluses.

What Barbarians need is an ameliorating strike or vampirism effect to make them sustainable in the short term, until the healer pays attention. I put out some great damage for a while, die and get gimpy really quick. Once i die and get raised, it isn't long after that I die again. Silver Flame pots slow me down enough that I'm certain to get beat to a pulp by mobs soon after I grab aggro. As a barbarian, I should be in the thick of the fight at all times. Hiding in a corner just feels wrong.