Barb survivability ideas for new pass

[Bloodskittle]

With the new barbarian pass coming I've been thinking about the best way for barbarians to gain decent self healing that is in keeping with the role playing theme of the class. I have had two main ideas about this,
1. An ability similar to the Druid vigor spell that is activated by rage ends with rage and scales with barbarian levels.
2. An ability similar to the divine crusader ability that heals you as you get kills based either on your barbarian levels I.e 1 d6 per 3 barb levels healed on kill scaled by devotion and heal amp. Or exactly the same as the divine crusader ability by basing it on CR.

The idea behind the first one I similar to the fast healing ability in the fury of the wild Ed tree.

The idea behind number two the "fluff" if you will is that as the barbarian destroys his opponents he feeds upon their corpses, to this end wraiths oozes constructs and other in edible enemies would not proc the healing effect and dirty things like troglodytes would inflict diseases as you are consuming their flesh, additional enhancements could allow a wider "menu" and wider resistances etc.

Just some ideas to aid in the survivability of the barbarian class helping make them EE viable.

[Vellrad]

1. Things based on kill are problematic because of who lands killing blow. Thing like 'when enemy in 10m range dies, you gain X HP' would be better. Amount of healing received should be based on barb level, points spent on ability, healing amp, CR of killed enemy (so lowly kobold is worth less than mighty ogre) and positive or negative spellpower (stealing someone's life force is not a natural thing after all).
2. Ability to use clickies while raged. Lack fo displacement clickies is much worse than lack of self heals.
3. Convert DR to PRR/MRR, and add more of it.
4. Have vampric bond heal players instead of providing temp. HP.
5. There is an ability sacrificing 1 con for 50 temp HP. Make it 2/4/6 HP per barb level, and make con regenerate after a 3/2/1 minute. Block restorating con lost this way with spells, as this ability would be OP if you could simply drink lesser resto pot.
6. Right now problem with barb is that you're constantly raged and can't cast buffs or heals. Rework barbarian rage to provide powerful but short burst of DPS- 30-60 second duration max, but increasing damage output by tremendous values (something like +5 mele power per barb level on top of str, crit etc). This way barbs are not raged 24/7, meaning they can use clickies etc like all people and use rage when they need a powerful damage boost (you wouldn't rage to kill a lowly kobold, but enable it on shaman or large horde). If rage is reworked this way, no need to add ability to use clickies when raged.
7. Remove once per second limitation on extra damage, like ravager cores or force damage in occult.
8. Instead of adding vicious, make frenzy decrease defense instead of self damage.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Barbarian survivability? WHY? Barbarians do it better when they're angry.

[Bloodskittle]

Barbarian survivability? WHY? Barbarians do it better when they're angry.

My point is really that I want to be able to heal while angry, in an "anger fuels the beast" kind of way

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

My point is really that I want to be able to heal while angry, in an "anger fuels the beast" kind of way

Personally granting healing might be the only way to get people to actually play Barbarians en masse. IMHO, I dont feel barbarians should be able to heal themselves. However in todays hyper inflated DDO, its only fair. Now this can be done within classic D&D rules...

Barbarian Fast Healing: Barbarians shrug off wounds that would cripple a lesser man, and have learned to draw upon deep reserves of energy and stamina. At 1st level, they gain Fast Healing 1. At 5th level this becomes Fast Healing 5, Fast Healing 10 at 10th level, Fast Healing 15 at 15th level, and Fast Healing 20 at 20th level.

*** Faster healing only applies while the barbarian is not raging.


*** If a Barbarian ever multi-classes, they permanently lose this ability.

[Kriogen]

Make barbarians Rage to be like Tenser Transformation when it comes to penalties. Just because you hit Rage doesn't make you brain dead. Penalty can be bigger then TT, just not brain dead.

Barbarians DR should work vs everything, no exceptions. And I mean everything, physical damage, elemental, force, you name it. Even stat damage. And it should stack with current sources of DR. If its small then it should be universal and stack.

Vigor/Regeneration on attack roll of 20. Strength (how much it heals) based on barbarian+epic levels. Make it "HP gain", not heal/positive energy, so it works the same on fleshies and tosters and number can be under control. Duration based on CON stat.

Expend Rage charge to become Troll like. You gain regeneration, but people like you even less and you don't like fire/acid.

No Dodge cap when using 'not very heavy' armor.

[Saekee]

With the new barbarian pass coming I've been thinking about the best way for barbarians to gain decent self healing that is in keeping with the role playing theme of the class. I have had two main ideas about this,
1. An ability similar to the Druid vigor spell that is activated by rage ends with rage and scales with barbarian levels.
2. An ability similar to the divine crusader ability that heals you as you get kills based either on your barbarian levels I.e 1 d6 per 3 barb levels healed on kill scaled by devotion and heal amp. Or exactly the same as the divine crusader ability by basing it on CR.

The idea behind the first one I similar to the fast healing ability in the fury of the wild Ed tree.

The idea behind number two the "fluff" if you will is that as the barbarian destroys his opponents he feeds upon their corpses, to this end wraiths oozes constructs and other in edible enemies would not proc the healing effect and dirty things like troglodytes would inflict diseases as you are consuming their flesh, additional enhancements could allow a wider "menu" and wider resistances etc.

Just some ideas to aid in the survivability of the barbarian class helping make them EE viable.

i suggested 2 above in another thread but to model it after Henshin's SCEWL. Not sure about it though but it would heal everyone around for x amount.

[Bloodskittle]

i suggested 2 above in another thread but to model it after Henshin's SCEWL. Not sure about it though but it would heal everyone around for x amount.

For the barbarian to heal others would be out of the mythos of the barbarian lore, it simply doesn't make sense. Personal healing on kill however makes a lot of sense especially if barbarians may once again assume their mantle as king of DPS

[Saekee]

For the barbarian to heal others would be out of the mythos of the barbarian lore, it simply doesn't make sense. Personal healing on kill however makes a lot of sense especially if barbarians may once again assume their mantle as king of DPS

I agree

[Ziindarax]

Considering the upcoming pass, I think the following is how the changes should play out:

Frenzied Berserker should get PRR boosts and Melee(/Ranged?) boosts from enhancements, and get rid of all that suicidal junk that only served to hasten a Barbarian's Demise (excepting the health tax on the Barbaric Cleave, though Paladin and Bard now rival the damage output and do not come with a tax).

Meanwhile, it always made sense that the Occult Slayer serve the roll of an Inquisitor, and as such they should receive massive boosts to their MRR, and have damage and weapon profile increases through rising bond strength (perhaps some form of weapon meditation ALA Kensai would allow them to build charges faster). The weapon damage features such as force should increase with Melee(/Ranged?) Power. As with the person above, Vampiric Bond should grant increasing health gains per hit that is determined by something along the lines of the following formula: 1d4 per 3 Barbarian levels (I say Barbarian rather than Character levels because the latter would enable hyper-OP Swashbuckler builds). This would not be increased by melee/ranged/spell power, and would function similarly to a Paladin's Lay on Hands feat so as to not exclude the War/Bladeforged.

Ravager, if I understand it correctly, has always been about Barbarians who embrace the magic that corrupted them (and as such, I feel that it would be a good idea to gate the more powerful abilities of Occult Slayer and Ravager behind antirequisites as to avoid OP builds - Ideologically, Occult Slayers shun magic, while Ravagers are debased savages who embrace it). Ravagers should probably get something similar to what the Swashbuckler has now, and they should get the ability to use health-draining SLA's like the Necromancer currently can (Blood Magic) whose damage is determined by melee power + total CON score + 1/2 Barbarian levels. DC could be something like 20 + Constitution modifier + 1/2 barbarian levels). Evil/chaotic damage powers should work as above and scale with melee power. Ravagers should enjoy the benefits of a Profane source of immunity to all Poisons/Diseases, and have the ability to retain those poisons and diseases to use as a timed weapon buff that stacks with Artificer weapon buffs, and would last x number of minutes equal to a barbarian's level. Furthermore, perhaps a weapon line aught to function similar to the dark strikes in the Ninja tree, in that the Ravager could eventually tap into the corrupt energy from within to augment the effects/damage of the diseases/poisons that they "load" onto their weapons.

Just an idea.

[Kriogen]

For the barbarian to heal others would be out of the mythos of the barbarian lore, it simply doesn't make sense. Personal healing on kill however makes a lot of sense especially if barbarians may once again assume their mantle as king of DPS

On kill is not very group friendly and its not usefull vs big boss.

[Bloodskittle]

On kill is not very group friendly and its not usefull vs big boss.

a Pnp Barbarian isn't very group friendly anyway, But after looking at Severlin's post about the pass it does look like they're on the right track more or less.

[Qhualor]

Personally granting healing might be the only way to get people to actually play Barbarians en masse. IMHO, I dont feel barbarians should be able to heal themselves. However in todays hyper inflated DDO, its only fair. Now this can be done within classic D&D rules...

Barbarian Fast Healing: Barbarians shrug off wounds that would cripple a lesser man, and have learned to draw upon deep reserves of energy and stamina. At 1st level, they gain Fast Healing 1. At 5th level this becomes Fast Healing 5, Fast Healing 10 at 10th level, Fast Healing 15 at 15th level, and Fast Healing 20 at 20th level.

*** Faster healing only applies while the barbarian is not raging.


*** If a Barbarian ever multi-classes, they permanently lose this ability.

this was the only healing I could find for barbs. the problem with it is that it doesn't heal enough hp and fast enough. the Fast Healing in FOTW is just a waste of points when in combat you need healing now, not over time that can take several or more minutes to get your hp topped off. its too slow even out of combat.

the thing with barbs healing and self defense is DR is meaningless in DDO and its already been commented by the devs that they wouldn't be able to balance it correctly. granting additional PRR/MRR while raging and as hp declines quarterly boosting it more would be the substitute.

temporary hp is big for them in PnP and barbs are getting more along with melee power scaling it. hopefully they make it worth the investment and make it so barbs have the hp long enough to stand and fight rather get on backs of mobs or tuck tail and run or stand and die.

potions is the only real reliable way for barbs to heal themselves. don't know where people get the idea that they shouldn't be able to heal well. in PnP, potions are rare to find and most other classes, just like in DDO, have access to self healing via spells, umd, LOHs or what have you. they may be limited, but its still more options than barbs. in DDO potions are available at vendors for plat and favor unlock for the best potion healing. no class in DDO is restricted and have more options than barbs. with the heal amp changes in the barb cores, im just hoping that its enough to be able to stay in a fight or just back out, heal, jump back in like others do because barbs only have 2 real potion options and 1 gives a penalty for using them.

overall, barbs are already getting some big improvements and I believe the only changes we see are going to be tweaks. the only thing I really worry about is the dps. despite what others say, I know barb dps is really good. I just don't know if its THE best with enough distance from Swashbuckler and Paladin to the point that barbs will be the preferred melee build to play giving up some easy self healing and defense.