Armor and Mitigation Changes

[Ausdoerrt]

They can pull of fast dps with a buckler now and switch to a real shield for more damage mitigation.

Well it's better single target, but lower AoE DPS. Depends on the build, I guess.

You're gonna have to splash at least 3 bard to be able to use SWF with bucklers, which is pretty restrictive build-wise (e.g. unavailable for anyone with paladin or monk levels, or any other lawful toons).

[lyrecono]

cleaves usually take care of my aoe damage on my tank, on EE i try to avoid too much agro, so its a plus for me.

thats right, i forgot
hmmm, just an orb it is than
and pdk shield when tanking

[Seikojin]

Best way to test these out: Lam build!

[lyrecono]

maybe when these changes go live on lamania

[Seikojin]

maybe when these changes go live on lamania

Lam isn't a live server, but a preview/test server. So yeah, I would hope they bring these to Lam/Lamannia soon so we can get some in game testing done.

[TromboneFireTurtle]

Lam isn't a live server, but a preview/test server. So yeah, I would hope they bring these to Lam/Lamannia soon so we can get some in game testing done.

+1

[Thar]

What about losing my wall of wood that took year plus to grind and now my pally won't be able to use with evasion. HATE THE CHANGE no consideration for people who have supported this game for years.

[B0ltdrag0n]

What about losing my wall of wood that took year plus to grind and now my pally won't be able to use with evasion. HATE THE CHANGE no consideration for people who have supported this game for years.

Yeah how terrible you will hAve better mitigation than evasion, and you toon will get better than a gimmick that is desired in nearly no content.

[lyrecono]

Lam isn't a live server, but a preview/test server. So yeah, I would hope they bring these to Lam/Lamannia soon so we can get some in game testing done.

I know lamania isn't a live server, i said when the changes go live on lamania

What about losing my wall of wood that took year plus to grind and now my pally won't be able to use with evasion. HATE THE CHANGE no consideration for people who have supported this game for years.

You do not loose the shield, the game mechanics changed, either switch shield or armor type, if your paly was a shield user already, he'll gain plenty in m/prr

Yeah how terrible you will hAve better mitigation than evasion, and you toon will get better than a gimmick that is desired in nearly no content.

A tank should have better mitigation then a evasion toon, thats the purpose of a "tank".
As for being desired, some people actualy like playing them

[bennyson]

What about losing my wall of wood that took year plus to grind and now my pally won't be able to use with evasion. HATE THE CHANGE no consideration for people who have supported this game for years.

You won't lose the shield, you'll just gain PRR/MRR and since you play a pally your saves will still reduce elemental damage you take by half. Combine that with MRR and it will be even lower.

[IronClan]

What about losing my wall of wood that took year plus to grind and now my pally won't be able to use with evasion. HATE THE CHANGE no consideration for people who have supported this game for years.

IMO light armor AC/PRR Large shield + Evasion builds are really unusual build that is born out of flaws in the game. In addition to describing almost none's of character builds on live. So yeah they might be a necessary casualty to making all the other types of non-edge case builds (like heavy and Medium armor and shields) actually viable.

[Ayseifn]

IMO light armor AC/PRR Large shield + Evasion builds are really unusual build that is born out of flaws in the game. In addition to describing almost none's of character builds on live. So yeah they might be a necessary casualty to making all the other types of non-edge case builds (like heavy and Medium armor and shields) actually viable.

I don't think they're a needed casualty, Tower Shields have a 2 dodge cap at best and it's non trivial to raise it to a decent level. Heavies have no dodge cap at all, so we might be seeing lots of SnB toons wearing medium armour and heavy shields so they can have a dodge in the mid to high teens at the cost of a few % in mitigation instead of having a dodge in the single digits.

Lower the MRR multiplier for heavies but let them keep evasion.

[bennyson]

I don't think they're a needed casualty, Tower Shields have a 2 dodge cap at best and it's non trivial to raise it to a decent level. Heavies have no dodge cap at all, so we might be seeing lots of SnB toons wearing medium armour and heavy shields so they can have a dodge in the mid to high teens at the cost of a few % in mitigation instead of having a dodge in the single digits.

Lower the MRR multiplier for heavies but let them keep evasion.

No, no, no, and no

Medium armor is nothing more but heavy armor with a higher dodge cap and lower armor class (which, by the way, is coming back now that monster To-Hit chances are getting nerfed).

Also, using a heavy or tower shield would impair movement and flexibility of someone vs. someone else using a buckler or light shield. Bucklers and light shields are built for the evasive character who wants to keep their flexibility while still getting some form of protection from a shield.

Also, if you did a Medium Armor + Tower Shield combo, the dodge cap on the armor becomes meaningless because the dodge cap on the tower shield comes first and the dodge cap on the armor is disregarded. You want Medium Armor dodge? Don't use Tower Shields.

[lyrecono]

Medium armor is nothing more but heavy armor with a higher dodge cap and lower armor class (which, by the way, is coming back now that monster To-Hit chances are getting nerfed).

source?

(btw, quite right there on the " No, no, no, and no")

[Ayseifn]

Also, if you did a Medium Armor + Tower Shield combo, the dodge cap on the armor becomes meaningless because the dodge cap on the tower shield comes first and the dodge cap on the armor is disregarded. You want Medium Armor dodge? Don't use Tower Shields.

That's my point, because of the depreciating gains of PRR you're better off not using towers which is silly. Heavy shields have no cap and allow much more dodge and also have 2x MRR.

And yeah, please source that comment about monster to-hit getting nerfed.

[bennyson]

What other changes do you plan?

~ The to hit values of creatures in Epic Elite content would be rebalanced so high Armor Class builds will have some mitigation.

Sev~

Does this qualify?

That's my point, because of the depreciating gains of PRR you're better off not using towers which is silly. Heavy shields have no cap and allow much more dodge and also have 2x MRR.

And yeah, please source that comment about monster to-hit getting nerfed.

True, but Tower Shields have a higher armor class than heavy shields.

[Ayseifn]

Thanks for posting that, guess there's not much to discuss until we can see how big of a change there is in mob to-hit. If the AC difference between heavy+tower isn't noticeably better than having ~10 more dodge then no tower for me.

[lyrecono]

it does, i forgot about that post, ty for quoting it
i doubt ac will be that useful,

Some high level shields
large:
bullwark of the stormfist, ac 25 at lv 25
Wall of wood, ac 25 at lv 24

tower shield:
Bastion, ac 19 at lv 25
Madstone Aegis ac 20 at lv 25, becomes ac 21 after upgrade, supposed to be a raid item.
Purple Dragon Shield ac 20 at lv 26

do towershields really have a better ac?
the named shields i found on ddowiki at levels 24-28 do seem to suggest otherwise.
The biggest insult is the raid shield, it realy falls behind in many ways.

i wouldn't mind seeing some tower shields added to the game, heroic&epic dragonscale towershields to match the helms&armor :P
For end game the devs could add thunderforged shields.

[gwonbush]

it does, i forgot about that post, ty for quoting it
i doubt ac will be that useful,

Some high level shields
large:
bullwark of the stormfist, ac 25 at lv 25
Wall of wood, ac 25 at lv 24

tower shield:
Bastion, ac 19 at lv 25
Madstone Aegis ac 20 at lv 25, becomes ac 21 after upgrade, supposed to be a raid item.
Purple Dragon Shield ac 20 at lv 26

do towershields really have a better ac?
the named shields i found on ddowiki at levels 24-28 do seem to suggest otherwise.
The biggest insult is the raid shield, it realy falls behind in many ways.

i wouldn't mind seeing some tower shields added to the game, heroic&epic dragonscale towershields to match the helms&armor :P
For end game the devs could add thunderforged shields.

Yes. If you clicked on the links for the large shields, you would find that the AC they provide without Enhancements/ED abilities is around 10 lower than what you listed, putting the Tower Shields ahead by 3-6 AC or so before other bonuses.

[lyrecono]

ahhh, ofc, that explains it