Interesting Attack Speed Data (acrobat bonus only applies when standing still)

[maddong]

The cap on thrown attacks at 84 attacks/minute got me interested in looking at attack speeds and it looks like most of the data I could find was from older updates.

To test I would time how long it took to do 50 attacks and then convert that into attacks per minute. Eventually I got lazy and started extrapolating some data from 10 attacks which increases my error.

I updated this to have tentative conclusions first and I will put the data in a later post.

1. Thief acrobatics only gives an alacrity bonus while standing still.

2. The cap on thrown attacks at 84 attacks/minute appears to be 3 * the base attack rate of thrown weapons (bab 0 with no feats). This makes me wonder if all styles cap at 3 * the base attack rate of that style.

3. At least for ranged attacks, every point of BAB appears to increase your attack rate (not every 5 points).

4. Rapid shot with bows may add a fixed 6 attacks/minute bonus before alacrity is taken into account [(BAB rate + rapid shot) * alacrity bonus].

5. The combination of rapid shot and quickdraw with thrown may add a fixed 12 attacks/minute bonus before alacrity is taken into account (added to the BAB equation).

6. The effect of BAB on attack rate is much more with thrown (we are talking around 100% faster at BAB 28) > bow > melee (we are talking around 7-8% faster at BAB 28). So divine power/tenser's/divine crusader is much more important if you are ranging than if you are meleeing.

8. To get the speed increase you must multiply the alacrity bonus by a factor:
thrown (standing or running) about 0.55% per alacrity bonus
standing quarterstaff about 1.0% per alacrity bonus
standing swf about 1.3% per alacrity bonus
running quarterstaff and running SWF about 1.7% per alacrity bonus
light repeater 0.2% per alacrity bonus

One interesting side effect is that running with SWF you should be able to attack 2.275 * as fast if you are using GSWF, haste boost 30%, and haste 15% (.75 * 1.7 + 1). That still doesn't get you close to the attack rate cap if it is relatively the same across styles.

[Mindos]

The cap on thrown attacks at 84 attacks/minute got me interested in looking at attack speeds and it looks like most of the data I could find was from older updates.

Where did you get the info regarding thrown attack caps at 84/min?
Is there any other info along this vein?

[maddong]

Where did you get the info regarding thrown attack caps at 84/min?
Is there any other info along this vein?

The Meteor Shower thread: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...riken-Insanity

I added more numbers to the original post.

[maddong]

I'm just posting 0% alacrity data.

50 attacks quarterstaff (thief acrobatics only works while standing still not running)
bab 0 0% 36.7 running = 81.7 attacks/minute
bab 1-5 0% 35.8 running = 83.8 attacks/minute (2.5% faster than bab 0)
bab 6 0% 35.5 running = 84.5 attacks/minute (3.4% faster than bab 0)
bab 8 0% 35.8 running
bab 12-18 0% 35 running = 85.7 attacks/minute (5% faster than bab 0)
bab 19 0% 34.9 running
bab 22 0% 34.8 running
bab 27 0% 34.3 running = 87.5 attacks/minute (7% faster than bab 0)
bab 0 0% 36.3 standing = 82.6 attacks/minute
bab 8 0% 35.3 standing
bab 12-18 0% 35.1 standing = 85.5 attacks/minute
bab 19 0% 34.5 standing
bab 22 0% 34 standing
bab 27 0% 33.6 standing = 89.3 attacks/minute

50 attacks swf
bab 27 0% 33.7 standing = 89.0
bab 27 0% 34.3 running = 87.5

50 attacks thrown
bab 0 0% 107.3 = 28.0 attacks/minute (thrown attack rate caps at 84 attacks/minute or 3 x this)
bab 1 0% 101.5 = 29.6
bab 2 0% 96.1 = 31.2
bab 12 0% 72 = 41.7
bab 27 0% 54 = 55.6 (98.6% faster)
bab 2 rs 81.5 = 36.8 (5.6 faster)
bab 2 rs&qd 69.5 = 43.2 (12 faster)
bab 12 rs&qd 56 = 53.6 (11.9 faster)

50 attacks bow
bab 0 0% 83.8 = 35.8
bab 1 0% 81.5 = 36.8
bab 2 0% 79 = 38.0
bab 12 0% 61.5 = 48.8
bab 27 0% 46 = 65.2 (79.1% faster)
bab 1 rs 70 = 42.9 (6.1 faster)
bab 2 rs 68.5 = 43.8 (5.8 faster)
bab 12 rs 54.5 = 55.0 (6.2 faster)

[SealedInSong]

If this is true, I'm very disheartened...

The whole point of acrobats is to be mobile, hence the poor-in-practice tumbling bonii.

How sad.

[jakeelala]

excellent thread

[maddong]

I erased all my crossbow data since it no longer applies. Here is some new data with a light repeater (volleys per minute so multiple by 3 to get attacks per minute):
bab 0 0% 29.9 volleys per minute
bab 0 0% rr 39.8

bab 1 0% 33.4
bab 1 0% rs 37.3
bab 1 0% rr 40.5
bab 1 0% rs rr 46.4

bab 21 0% rs rr 50.5
bab 21 10% rs rr 51.7
bab 21 30% rs rr 52.9

bab 26 0% rs rr 50.8
bab 26 60% rs rr 57.4 (12% increase from 0% alacrity)

Some conclusions:
So alacrity for a repeating crossbow gives about a 2% attack speed increase per 10% of alacrity (so I'm guessing fusilade > haste boost).
Casting tenser's with a repeater probably isn't worth it (as opposed to thrown which really is worth it).
At high level a repeater can give you 150-170 attacks per minute before doubleshot (quite a bit higher since doubleshot appears to be adding too much to repeaters).

[maddong]

Thrown BAB 28:
bab 28 0% rs = 61.2 (so should be about 67 if you also had quickdraw)
bab 28 22% rs 43.5 = 69.0 (12% faster)
0.55 * boost for thrown

Bow BAB 28:
bab 28 0% rs = 69.6
bab 28 22% rs 39 = 76.9 (10.4% faster)
0.47 * boost for bow

Great crossbow BAB 28:
bab 28 0% rs rr = 80
bab 28 22% rs rr 35.5 = 84.5 (5.6% faster)
0.25 * boost for great crossbow

Light repeater BAB 28:
bab 28 0% rs rr = 51.3 volleys
bab 28 20% rs rr = 52.9 (3.1% increase)
0.15 to 0.2 * boost for light repeating crossbow

So as far as effect of alacrity: thrown > bow > great crossbow > repeater

Attack rate at bab 28 (with all applicable feats):
repeater 154 > great crossbow 80 > bow 69 > thrown 67

[Theolin]

Did a couple of quick test with my thrower throwing stars
11rog, 4 ftr, 5 bard, 6 epic
bab 18,
base double shot 12% + 52 due to shuriken expert or 53 if in shidari + 4 for tensers
base ranged att speed 10%
feats:quick draw, rapid shot,
tried to minimize the above double shot to get better results ... but.....


time throw 100 masterwork shurikens - did each test twice averaged the time
most time were within 1 second

nothing	50 seconds
wirling wrists (twisted)	50 seconds
LD haste boost (2 uses)	50 seconds
tensers	50 seconds
tensers & whriling wrists(twisted)	45 seconds
in shidari with WW	45 seconds
in shidari with WW & tensers	45 seconds
in shidari with WW & tensers & LD haste boost (1 use) this time seems very variable (range 37-45) 4 tests	40 seconds
in shidari with WW & LD haste (1 use) this one was also odd	50 seconds
whish i could test in shidari with WW twisted without having it

interesting numbers that is for sure ......

The surprise was being in shidari or not

[maddong]

You are best off counting animations otherwise:
You need to use a non shuriken otherwise you get that 52% doublestrike.
You need to respec out of your epic feat and let your guild buffs expire.

[Tilomere]

The surprise was being in shidari or not

The prism-rainbow-double rainbow line is also more effective in shiradi.

rainbow stat damage you see, but prism/double rainbow procs weren't really occurring.

It seems that shiradi abilities were not intended to be twisted.