Close the ASAH

[Oxarhamar]

So instead of paying for the tomes directly, you "payed-your-way" with loot gems and exploited an oversight in the loot tables. Gotcha.

if you search Devs was very clear on what lvl tomes drops in loot. Loot bonus weekends and Loots Gems are WAI.

I did some digging but, its been a long while I'm guessing somewhere between Update 17-18 there was a clear statement by the Devs. "+4 tomes drop at X level chest with a chance to be +4-+5 Upgrades" Highroads during the loot bonus weekend with a loot gem going was just the right level. *found it http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_16 right in the release notes

Tome Upgrades can now be found in random treasure. These wondrous items will allow you to upgrade an existing inherent bonus in an ability score to the next higher inherent bonus. Upgrades that turn a +4 Inherent Bonus into a +5 Inherent Bonus will be able to be found in treasure levels of 27 and higher.

btw I did not "pay my way" with loot gems I used loot gems that I saves from the weekly store coupons, etc...

[Kawai]

So instead of paying for the tomes directly, you "payed-your-way" with loot gems and exploited an oversight in the loot tables. Gotcha.

Loot Gems used ta drop a lot with daily freebie rolls.
--just say'n :P

[BigErkyKid]

And that is why discussions over P2W are so hard to have. It turns into a personal thing where someone feels he/she has to defend his / her in game achievements by claiming that he used some smart way to bypass P2W.

Well good for you! But the game is impregnated of p2w to its very essence, odd cases, exploits, and what not aside.

Funny how the only reply I get to my text is "Not me"!

[Vellrad]

BTW they gave away +5 tome in mabar, other can be farmed by achieving 5k favor 5 times.

Grindy, hard, impossible for some people, but possible for other.

[Oxarhamar]

And that is why discussions over P2W are so hard to have. It turns into a personal thing where someone feels he/she has to defend his / her in game achievements by claiming that he used some smart way to bypass P2W.

Well good for you! But the game is impregnated of p2w to its very essence, odd cases, exploits, and what not aside.

Funny how the only reply I get to my text is "Not me"!

Stop trying to tell everyone else how they should play pay or not and you'll stop getting responded like "this is how I do it" right after you say it can't be done.

You don't want to pay them play smarter. Learn how to gain the things in game and do it there is plenty of feedback on the forums that is helpful I see ignored because, everyone wants to play thier own way and be rewarded the same as those who earn thier way.

[Chai]

Stop trying to tell everyone else how they should play pay or not and you'll stop getting responded like "this is how I do it" right after you say it can't be done.

You don't want to pay them play smarter. Learn how to gain the things in game and do it there is plenty of feedback on the forums that is helpful I see ignored because, everyone wants to play thier own way and be rewarded the same as those who earn thier way.

Its not about worrying about how other people play or any other personal aspect. Its about the pattern based slippery slope that WILL happen in a game that sells character power/advancement. We have seen it go from +1-2 tomes and 20% xp pots to full past lives, +5 (soon to be +6) tomes, and raid loot - all for sale. People still attempt to deny this has a large part to do with why the game is attriting players at an increased rate, even after having it explained multiple times.

[Oxarhamar]

Its not about worrying about how other people play or any other personal aspect. Its about the pattern based slippery slope that WILL happen in a game that sells character power/advancement. We have seen it go from +1-2 tomes and 20% xp pots to full past lives, +5 (soon to be +6) tomes, and raid loot - all for sale. People still attempt to deny this has a large part to do with why the game is attriting players at an increased rate, even after having it explained multiple times.

I don't deny that that is p2w in the game.

I am just not on with the crowd who believes the game can not be played without buying all this.


I was specifically replying to this bit

"PS - So for those not willing to engage in p2w, forget about the competitive part of the game. Sad, but there is no other real option. You will never achieve the same as someone who is willing to push their way with money."

Which is only opinion and absolutely 100% false there are no store items that currently offer any more power to a player that can't be had on game.

No +15 store exclusive weapons and elixirs of 100% damage boost for one hour.

[Kalimah]

How are we competing? I compete against myself only. There is no competition in DDO. If you feel there is it is an internal thing.

[Chai]

I don't deny that that is p2w in the game.

I am just not on with the crowd who believes the game can not be played without buying all this.


I was specifically replying to this bit

"PS - So for those not willing to engage in p2w, forget about the competitive part of the game. Sad, but there is no other real option. You will never achieve the same as someone who is willing to push their way with money."

Which is only opinion and absolutely 100% false there are no store items that currently offer any more power to a player that can't be had on game.

No +15 store exclusive weapons and elixirs of 100% damage boost for one hour.

That claim in relation to character power as an absolute is false, so far. That claim in relation to time of acquisition is true by degree, and not the same for everyone. A good example where this hits pretty hard, is DC casting. With +6 tomes on the horizon, thats a 15% effectiveness boost. 6 TRs = 45% effectiveness boost against mobs with SR that falls within the range of the characters abilities + d20. It will also equal 15% effectiveness to all saves and skills used under the same conditions.

The biggest thing +5s allow for right now is the ability to start with 3 stats at 16 and qualify for epics feats without having to distribute leveling points into multiple stats. THis is another 5% increase in effectiveness for a salient ability which a DC is based off of.

Being ~30% more effective right now is pretty large step away from having to farm it all out. SO in terms of absolutes, sure someone can farm it all out, but in terms of degree, someone can have right now what it would take a large enough time to farm out to be regarded as highly improbable to do in a reasonable amount of time.

The one saving grace DDO has here is that max power is not necessary to defeat the highest level content on the highest difficulty setting. If this were a tier level raiding game and they were selling this level of character power, the only folks who would be defeating those current highest tier raids regularly are those who purchased the full character power package, because 30% effectiveness is a pretty large swing. This is the main reason why DDO has been able to sell this level of character power that they do, and not have it turn into an exclusivity mechanism in and of itself.

The main point I make in this thread is leaving ill gotten versions of this on the asah undermines their ability to sell it.

[Vint]

How are we competing? I compete against myself only. There is no competition in DDO. If you feel there is it is an internal thing.

This is a very good point.

If we say that this is a PVE game and we are not worried about what is sold to people in the store (since this is a PVE game), then at the same time people need to quit complaining about how one class is more OP than this or this is race is better than that.

I don’t see how people can talk out both sides of their necks demanding that Turbine nerf this and that but are more than happy to buy any power up they can with their CC.

P2W is here to stay and I can live with it. We all have too or we leave. This is the very reason we cannot have balance in this game. The more that people cry nerf, the more I think of this very thing.

[Kalimah]

Yeah man I totally agree that all the moaning about balance and OP etc is just silly. Why would we want a game where we are all equal? Why can we not have variable strengths and be happy with it? If no one is on playing at my range, then I dont play my guys that require groupage. I play those that I can solo content with. That doesnt mean that I dont like to group with my other toons, it means that I play the game according to both what I feel like doing and what my environment allows.

If we all require a full squad with the basic trinity plus a trapper then what the hell? We just play twidily winks when we dont have time or there is not a party available? If that is what you want then i dont want to play the same game as you guys do. I want to have the option to play a powerful character if I like, or play one that requires the basic trinity system to succeed. I dont want my gaming style restricted. That is one of hte primarty draws of DDO is the lack of restrictions but the ability to still do your basic trinity stuff.

But a lot of folks here have it in their head that MMO equal the trinity system and everyone else be damned.

[BigErkyKid]

This is a very good point.

If we say that this is a PVE game and we are not worried about what is sold to people in the store (since this is a PVE game), then at the same time people need to quit complaining about how one class is more OP than this or this is race is better than that.

I don’t see how people can talk out both sides of their necks demanding that Turbine nerf this and that but are more than happy to buy any power up they can with their CC.

P2W is here to stay and I can live with it. We all have too or we leave. This is the very reason we cannot have balance in this game. The more that people cry nerf, the more I think of this very thing.

I agree. I just don t think people see it PVE, why all those achievement threads? Why is everyone complimenting each other during the quests...your build rocks, how do you manage? etc. In addition to what you said regarding balance.

Chai is right when he says p2skip is just another version of p2w.

[Oxarhamar]

I agree. I just don t think people see it PVE, why all those achievement threads? Why is everyone complimenting each other during the quests...your build rocks, how do you manage? etc. In addition to what you said regarding balance.

Chai is right when he says p2skip is just another version of p2w.

The game is PVE

Sure we have the PVP pits but, no actual rewards for competing against each other.

No XP or loot bonus for highest kill count.

But, as far as players competeing against each other in achievement threads etc... There will always be competition in games even in single player PVE games players compete for fastest or no flawless or every secret upgrade what have you. It's human nature to compete even if only against themselves to improve.

[BigErkyKid]

The game is PVE

Sure we have the PVP pits but, no actual rewards for competing against each other.

No XP or loot bonus for highest kill count.

But, as far as players competeing against each other in achievement threads etc... There will always be competition in games even in single player PVE games players compete for fastest or no flawless or every secret upgrade what have you. It's human nature to compete even if only against themselves to improve.

And that is why p2w ruins that aspect of the game. If it is natural for people to compare and compete, it is also natural for people to prefer a playing field where they can t be told that they do well because they paid to win.

There is a reason why most games, cooperative or not, have rules that at least attempt to be fair. What is the sport behind having someone pay their way to victory (however you may define that)?

[Oxarhamar]

And that is why p2w ruins that aspect of the game. If it is natural for people to compare and compete, it is also natural for people to prefer a playing field where they can t be told that they do well because they paid to win.

There is a reason why most games, cooperative or not, have rules that at least attempt to be fair. What is the sport behind having someone pay their way to victory (however you may define that)?

It's not an aspect of the game.

It is only in your head that it's an aspect of the game.

You want to compete with other players without paying your way to victory as you call it? There is nothing stopping you but, yourself.

As I stated before I have no troubles earning in game but, my way (playing the game) is to difficult or boring for you. Maybe you should just pay to win.

Really you want +5tomes on all stats? Doing 3 heroic TRs on a Charicter (one & done) is enough to gain through drops and/or purchase with plat on the AH +3 to all stats then use the favor TP earned in game to purchase +3-4 supreme upgrade & +4-5 supreme upgrade.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

What is the sport behind having someone pay their way to victory (however you may define that)?

there is no sport, but there is money to be had by giving those who need it an ego stroking.

[MuleAxe]

Getting back on topic...ASAH is ripe for an overhaul.Interesting idea while it was new, but like all other trendy things; where there’s a will to exploit, a way will be found. Take away the means, and you level the playing field. /signed to remove until better anti-laundering measures are created

[Kalimah]

there is no sport, but there is money to be had by giving those who need it an ego stroking.

Its a business based on supply and demand. There is a demand for short cuts for folks with more money than time. Thus, Turbine serves that market. Turbine also servers the market of those with more time than money.

Since there is no direct competition in any way in DDO I dont see a problem with that.

I dont like it in a game where I can walk out of the waterworks and some levl 10 bully kills me and takes my 20 plats and some of my loot just because he can. In those games...it sucks to have to compete against folks who may buy things to get an advantage. However, when the competition is to see who's male parts are the largest as clearly evidenced by how much your kill count rocks the charts.........dont hate the game hate the playa.

[slarden]

If it is true that people are being banned for buying ingredients from the ASAH then they probably should close it down until they get a handle on it.

[BigErkyKid]

there is no sport, but there is money to be had by giving those who need it an ego stroking.

which is excellent for turbine but bad for the gaming experience, at least mine.

Since turbine relies on those money grabs to make their business, they design the game to encourage you to cough up that money.

They make so by creating grinding schemes and offering p2skip.

I d rather have a game focused on creating the best possible experience and marketing that, as opposed to one where we have to tolerate those annoyances.

But meh, when it annoys me too much, I just stop playing the game. Pity there is no other serious DnD MMO out there.