Ranger > Fighter > Rouge or Articifer?

[MarleVVLL]

Hi friends.

I'm new to DDO but not to D&D. I have a multi class question.

I intend on being a STR based TWF melee character with decent ranged abilities, good stealth, sneak attack options, utilities and hopefully a pet.

I'm wondering if putting levels into Art is preferred here or is rogue is better. I'm thinking 11 > 2 > 2 (suggestions after this?).

For RNG, it'd mainly be tempest tree with a few points in bow and stealth unless that's dumb.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

[Bridge_Dweller]

The pets in DDO are all pretty terrible. Lookup the "Tempest Trapmonkey." It's a great starter build.

[cru121]

18 ranger / 1 / 1 used to be a popular ranger build, "Tempest". It is still ok.
15 ranger levels gives you Freedom of Movement and CSW, so a 3/2 or 4/1 split is also quite ok.
11-12 ranger levels is another common build component.

Rogue or Artificer? I prefer Artificer for more spell points, +1 caster level on scrolls and weak pet to pull levers. Rogue has sneak attack and probably other stuff I am overlooking.

EDIT: If you're not new to D&D you probably know that you should take rogue/artificer at first level for extra skill points.

[MarleVVLL]

Hi there.

Thanks for the advice thus far.

By 'not new to D&D', I was comparing my relative experience between DDO and D&D. I'm still a novice but the progression system here is not a new idea. I'm a new but not a complete newbie.

Do Artificers gain sneak attacks? Moreover, on RNG, their DWS line, could I put points into 'sneak attack' to dismiss the rogue and simply put levels into the Artificer?

Thoughts?

Also, since the latter is INT based, how does one advise that contrast for a WIS RNG caster?

EDIT: Moreover, looking at the TEMP tree, it looks like being a STR RNG is not super helpful because of their core abilities. Thoughts here?

In short, it looks as if an ART/ROG (1 or 2) > FHT (1 or 2 )> RNG (18 or 16). Is this better?

[Grailhawk]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/423116

[MarleVVLL]

Thank you! This is quite close to what I'm looking for.

What if one changed the ROG to ART at first level? Suggestions or concerns about that? Would I still need ROG to use sneak attack (per the added die from RNG tree)?

[Bridge_Dweller]

What if one changed the ROG to ART at first level? Suggestions or concerns about that? Would I still need ROG to use sneak attack (per the added die from RNG tree)?

You wouldn't need rogue to get sneak attack but the rogue level does allow for slightly more sneak attack damage.

[FranOhmsford]

What's a ROUGE?

[MarleVVLL]

Interesting.

What's worth more: a crappy pet or more sneak attack in DDO?

EDIT: FOF - thanks for the spell check

[Bridge_Dweller]

What's worth more: a crappy pet or more sneak attack in DDO?

Not even a question, sneak attack. The only thing pets are good for is pulling levers if you're soloing.

[MarleVVLL]

Wow. Thanks. No question, then!

(off topic: doesn't that make the Articifer far less effective, then?)

[count_spicoli]

Curious your join date says July 2007 but you say you are new. How does that work?

[MarleVVLL]

I tried the game years ago. Note my low post count. Since then, I grew more familiar with D&D and finally --duh-- realized there was a MMO with it as a guiding force; I no longer needed NWN2 persistent worlds anymore

[Grailhawk]

I like Rogue over Artificer but artificer has 4 ap +75% Wand and Scroll amp which is useful and might out beat the 2d6 sneak attack that you get from Rogue for 3AP depends on other things really. IMO 1 rogue or 1 artificer both are basically the same they get you DD, OL, and UMD to 23 rather then 11.

[mna]

IMO 1 rogue or 1 artificer both are basically the same they get you DD, OL, and UMD to 23 rather then 11.

For the most part, yes.

I suppose for some non-elf dex-based builds, 1 artificer might also have an advantage in the free repeater proficiencies... at least if you can eventually get enough UMD for Insightful Damage scrolls.


(Of course then there's the part where you could even take both arti and rogue splashes on your ranger if you really wanted to - say, 12 ranger / 6 rogue / 2 artificer for permanent Int-to-damage on heavy repeaters, and all the nice TWF and ranged feats for free, oh and rune arms and lever-pulling robodogs too but not much scaling for them.)

[unbongwah]

RNG (18 or 16).

Popular cutoffs for mostly-rgr builds:

• lvl 11: free Imp Prec Shot and GTWF
• lvl 12: access to lvl 12 PrE enhs, i.e., +10% offhand procs (Tempest), +1d6 SA +10 Pos Spellpower (DWS), Aligned Arrows (AA)
• lvl 14: one lvl 4 spell slot
• lvl 15: 2nd lvl 4 spell slot, 4th FE (and +2 dmg to all FEs)
• lvl 18: access to lvl 18 PrE enhs

Rgr 16 gets you an extra lvl 2 spell slot (booooring); lvl 17 gets you Hide in Plain Sight, which I never found useful, but I haven't messed with stealth since the U19 overhaul.

EDIT: for a more heavily-MCed rgr build, have a look at Noyellowbar and the Hunter's Knife (3rd build down).

I suppose for some non-elf dex-based builds, 1 artificer might also have an advantage in the free repeater proficiencies... at least if you can eventually get enough UMD for Insightful Damage scrolls.

How would that help? [HINT: scrolls go in your main hand; so do xbows.]

[MarleVVLL]

This is very helpful.

I'm currently 1 Rog, 1 Fig and 3 Rng. I noticed rogues get fun actives on their progress trees at level two, so I'm thinking about gaining another level in rogue, ending it at 2 Rog, 1 Fig and 17 RNG.

Is this smart?

[Grailhawk]

This is very helpful.

I'm currently 1 Rog, 1 Fig and 3 Rng. I noticed rogues get fun actives on their progress trees at level two, so I'm thinking about gaining another level in rogue, ending it at 2 Rog, 1 Fig and 17 RNG.

Is this smart?

Like unbongwah said its 15 or 18 for a ranger split so if you want Rogue 2 (not sure why what fun actives? Evasion is not active and Ranger will get it any ways at 9) you might as well go to 15/4/1 Ranger Rogue Fighter.

[MarleVVLL]

They get, via enchantments, another poison, venomed blades, bleed them out, and damage boost (does this stack with the human race benefit?).

Are those decent late game and worth the level investment?

[unbongwah]

Static dmg atks or bonuses like Venomed Blades or the bleed effect from Bleed Them Out aren't that useful, because they don't scale up at higher lvls. The ones with crit range bonuses like Sly Flourish or +[W] modifiers are better.

Assassin poisons are useless if you're not playing an INT rogue (DCs are too low); and even then they don't do much good because the useful effects only proc on vorpal strikes. [Stat dmg sounds cool, but you rarely if ever do enough of it to make a difference; everything either dies too quickly or is stat-warded.] Also class dmg boost won't stack with human dmg boost nor haste boost, so the only reason to take Assassin (or DWS) dmg boost if to give yourself a backup for when you run outta other boosts.