Dragonborn/Half-Dragons

[Uska]

I for one want EVERY Elf Sub-Race in DDO - Sylvan and Aquatic are still completely missing and Sun Elf Morninglords are Nerfed Grey Elves!

I'd also like to see Mountain Dwarves, Forest Gnomes, Svirfnebli, REAL Halflings {Not Kender wannabes!}, Kobolds, Gnolls/Flinds, Hobgoblins and Muls {Half Dwarves originally Dark Sun only but I believe they've been added to other worlds now}!

And I am dead set against the likes of Tieflings, Aasimar, Dragonborn, Genasi, Shifters/Changelings, Undead or Lycanthropes being added!

If you want to play the likes of Lycanthropes, Undead and Changelings then World of Darkness is for you NOT D&D!

Dragonborn and Planetouched are simply Munchkin races {Lol I'm agreeing with Uska - Wonders will never cease!}!



Mountain Dwarves could easily be +2 Wis/+2 Con, -2 Dex/-2 Cha.
Forest Gnomes and Svirfnebli are both +Wis races {or at least were back in 2nd Ed. Wis/Dex for both}.
Kobolds could be adapted for DDO using the NPC Kobolds as a template i.e. +2 Dex/Cha would make sense with all the Kobold Shamans {FvS} and Witch Doctors {Sorc} in this game!

I agree with you on most of the races but don't see what you have against shifters they aren't lycanthropes as to changelings they really wouldn't add to ddo what they do to pnp. As to more elves and dwarves bring them.

[Zachski]

I will never accept dragonborn and yeah they will probably put them in kobolds while I don't really see the point of I am not against them as the are very eberonish as to gnomes no they don't really add anything but they are an original race and should be in also they have one of the houses in Eberron. Dragonborn add nothing but a big healing of cheese and I will fight against them tooth and nail.


When I ran 3.5 I ran core books only no evil alignments or party conflict allowed other than teasing and practical jokes and I had lots of players always wanting to play. I will never play or run in a pnp game where evil,is allowed it's just a bad idea. As to pathfinder never really liked it as it continued the power creep splat books but I don't hate the system if the gm keeps control of that part.



I prefer I lowered powered pnp system that I feel has a true old school flavor HM5

So you're basically the epitome of close-minded then.

Then please step back and let people who are actually willing to listen to other people talk. You've already demonstrated you don't know Eberron lore as much as you thought you did, so please ... stop.

Also, you sound like a terrible DM, not even allowing your players to roleplay any sort of party conflict. Sounds like you only wanted them to run your stories, and not forge their own.

[Drathsiddh]

So you're basically the epitome of close-minded then.

Then please step back and let people who are actually willing to listen to other people talk. You've already demonstrated you don't know Eberron lore as much as you thought you did, so please ... stop.

Also, you sound like a terrible DM, not even allowing your players to roleplay any sort of party conflict. Sounds like you only wanted them to run your stories, and not forge their own.

Agreed, head to toe, arm to arm. Why are we going back and forth with this? He doesn't want dragonborns fine let him stay in the gutter, but why does he want us to bear his suffering? In a day, kill me if Uska doesn't reply with his nonsense, "I hate this about them, I hate that about them, in this lore it's like that" and so forth.
To pooscoo1488: You have a good point there, but; If they are hunted down for their scales and such, it would give the race a good reason to be adventurers (PCs).
FranOhmsford, push for the races you want, but please don't be an Uska duplicate. Not realy for more elf-en races but don't see why I should stop you all from having them.
Oh, and Uska, I'm presuming you are a power gamer who will enjoy posting build after build, replying to every small comment, so think like this: 'Oh yeah new races=new builds=more fun for me!!!!'

[Uska]

So you're basically the epitome of close-minded then.

Then please step back and let people who are actually willing to listen to other people talk. You've already demonstrated you don't know Eberron lore as much as you thought you did, so please ... stop.

Also, you sound like a terrible DM, not even allowing your players to roleplay any sort of party conflict. Sounds like you only wanted them to run your stories, and not forge their own.

Noemi have seen what part conflict does and most players can't handle it and it leads to hurt feelings and other than that they had a free rein.


You stand back I will fight against what I don't like in the game until I win or lose I lost against adding drow and the realms but that doesn't mean I will give up.

I know lots of gms who don't allow part conflict it doesn't lead to anything good if you.

[Uska]

Agreed, head to toe, arm to arm. Why are we going back and forth with this? He doesn't want dragonborns fine let him stay in the gutter, but why does he want us to bear his suffering? In a day, kill me if Uska doesn't reply with his nonsense, "I hate this about them, I hate that about them, in this lore it's like that" and so forth.
To pooscoo1488: You have a good point there, but; If they are hunted down for their scales and such, it would give the race a good reason to be adventurers (PCs).
FranOhmsford, push for the races you want, but please don't be an Uska duplicate. Not realy for more elf-en races but don't see why I should stop you all from having them.
Oh, and Uska, I'm presuming you are a power gamer who will enjoy posting build after build, replying to every small comment, so think like this: 'Oh yeah new races=new builds=more fun for me!!!!'

Umm no I am not a power gamer in the least if you read more of my posts you would see the reverse I am against adding power gamer races dragonborn, asimar, teiflings and I wish enhancements and all the other power escalation wasn't in the game and I have never posted a build or followed anyone else's my main has had the greater dragon mark of passage even when it took 3 feats I made him knowing the game was in Eberron hoping it would have the dragon marks and gave him the name d'Orien last name that is. Most would call my builds gimp since they don't strive to squeeze the next little advantage out of everything they can. No I don't play each new race and hope it's better more elves and dwarves won't really add anything but they would be an easy add and wouldn't at least add power creep

[Drathsiddh]

Umm no I am not a power gamer in the least if you read more of my posts you would see the reverse I am against adding power gamer races dragonborn, asimar, teiflings and I wish enhancements and all the other power escalation wasn't in the game and I have never posted a build or followed anyone else's my main has had the greater dragon mark of passage even when it took 3 feats I made him knowing the game was in Eberron hoping it would have the dragon marks and gave him the name d'Orien last name that is. Most would call my builds gimp since they don't strive to squeeze the next little advantage out of everything they can. No I don't play each new race and hope it's better more elves and dwarves won't really add anything but they would be an easy add and wouldn't at least add power creep

So you aint a power gamer, what do I care? If you are for another race then ask for it. You as it is have been playing DDO for a while, I presume, so a little wait can't hurt you.
Or even me, but still.....



GROW UP!!!!

[Uska]

So you aint a power gamer, what do I care? If you are for another race then ask for it. You as it is have been playing DDO for a while, I presume, so a little wait can't hurt you.
Or even me, but still.....



GROW UP!!!!

well as Scandal says.......if you don't know that that means oh well

[Zachski]

Noemi have seen what part conflict does and most players can't handle it and it leads to hurt feelings and other than that they had a free rein.


You stand back I will fight against what I don't like in the game until I win or lose I lost against adding drow and the realms but that doesn't mean I will give up.

I know lots of gms who don't allow part conflict it doesn't lead to anything good if you.

Okay, see, here's the thing.

All of your arguments are how it'll affect you, what your ideal dreams for a Dungeons and Dragons game are, and what you think is more fun.

Guess what? It's not all about you! That one sentence counters every argument you've ever made in this thread. So until you can prove to me why you think Dungeons and Dragons should revolve around you, you have no legitimacy for me.

Because believe it or not, not everyone is you. Not everyone shares your tastes. You, however, are trying to push your tastes on other people.

I also have no reason to believe that you are a DM, nor that you've had players flocking to you. So trying to tout that as your authority is meaningless.

Now, stop being selfish. Not everything is about you. DDO does not revolve around you. What affects you is irrelevant.

[Drathsiddh]

So until you can prove to me why you think Dungeons and Dragons should revolve around you, you have no legitimacy for me.

Well spoken, but I'll be damned if Uska doesn't come back and say "Because I'm paying for the game!!! " See his problem is he wants everybody to be like him. Bland, boring and up for a fight.

[Uska]

Okay, see, here's the thing.

All of your arguments are how it'll affect you, what your ideal dreams for a Dungeons and Dragons game are, and what you think is more fun.

Guess what? It's not all about you! That one sentence counters every argument you've ever made in this thread. So until you can prove to me why you think Dungeons and Dragons should revolve around you, you have no legitimacy for me.

Because believe it or not, not everyone is you. Not everyone shares your tastes. You, however, are trying to push your tastes on other people.

I also have no reason to believe that you are a DM, nor that you've had players flocking to you. So trying to tout that as your authority is meaningless.

Now, stop being selfish. Not everything is about you. DDO does not revolve around you. What affects you is irrelevant.

The same goes for you and what you want and if you look at the history of the request more people don't want dragonboring then do and I have probably been a gm longer then you have been out of diapers or even alive.

[Zachski]

The same goes for you and what you want and if you look at the history of the request more people don't want dragonboring then do and I have probably been a gm longer then you have been out of diapers or even alive.

I'm not the one trying to prevent other people from eating cake, so... no, the same doesn't go for me.

By the way, no, every post about Dragonborn I've seen has been a majority support and a minority amount against. I would venture to say 20% of the population wants Dragonborn, 5% doesn't, and 75% doesn't have an opinion one way or the other.

By the way, I still have no reason to believe that you are a DM. Incidentally, last I checked, you are not a DM for DDO, and thus, you have no authority here even if you really are what you claim you are.

[FranOhmsford]

I'm not the one trying to prevent other people from eating cake, so... no, the same doesn't go for me.

By the way, no, every post about Dragonborn I've seen has been a majority support and a minority amount against. I would venture to say 20% of the population wants Dragonborn, 5% doesn't, and 75% doesn't have an opinion one way or the other.

And probably 50% + want Kobolds, 33% want Gnomes, 25% want Tieflings and Aasimar - Dragonborn are way down the list!

Also in every Dragonborn thread I've ever seen there's been like 3 people for and many more than that against so I'd love to know how you get your numbers - Oh yeah..You just made them up like mine in this post!


I've had my run ins with Uska and we tend not to agree on...well...ANYTHING else BUT on this I'm with him 1000% - HELL NO to Dragonborn in DDO!

[Zachski]

Why? No one would force you to play them.

And if other people playing them is what causes you grief, well... all I can say is "Get over it."

All I'm saying is, "Don't go around trying to break other people's toys just because you don't want to play with them."

[Drathsiddh]

Sorry but the way things stand on this thread: Most people want dragonborns (or if you are Uska "Dragonboring", does he do this to everything he doesn't want? Make 'puns' out of their names?). In fact the only people who are dead against it are Uska and Frans. In fact, if they want Kobolds (fine by me) Gnomes (uhh...though I'm not saying no to em) or whatever, let them go for that,

"Don't go around trying to break other people's toys just because you don't want to play with them."

.

[Uska]

Sorry but the way things stand on this thread: Most people want dragonborns (or if you are Uska "Dragonboring", does he do this to everything he doesn't want? Make 'puns' out of their names?). In fact the only people who are dead against it are Uska and Frans. In fact, if they want Kobolds (fine by me) Gnomes (uhh...though I'm not saying no to em) or whatever, let them go for that, .

Do better research in most threads asking for them more are against them and ask for other races and most that do want them don't resort to power sonar attacks like a couple of you here.

[Failedlegend]

Do better research in most threads asking for them more are against them and ask for other races and most that do want them don't resort to power sonar attacks like a couple of you here.

Actually he's right beyond you and Frahms most (not all) other posts are positive or neutral, your posts just make it SEEM like there's alot of resistance if you not paying attention.

I do agree that more people want Kobolds, Aasimar,Tieflings or Genasi...Kobolds do have a clear lead though.

Gnomes are also high on that list but the details are big source of disagreement amongst the community (Mainly 3.5 gnomes +Con,-Str versus every other editions Gnome which are +Int of some sort [varies per edition but always +Int] versus an Iconic Tinker Gnome +Int/Dex, -Str/Wis)

[FranOhmsford]

Gnomes are also high on that list but the details are big source of disagreement amongst the community (Mainly 3.5 gnomes +Con,-Str versus every other editions Gnome which are +Int of some sort [varies per edition but always +Int] versus an Iconic Tinker Gnome +Int/Dex, -Str/Wis)

Uh actually in 2nd Ed:
Rock Gnomes were +1 Int, -1 Wis
Forest Gnomes were +1 Dex/Wis. -1 Str/Int
Svirfneblin were +1 Wis/Dex, -1 Int/-2 Cha
Tinker Gnomes were +2 Dex, -1 Str/Wis

So... Just the Standard PHB Gnome {Rock Gnomes} got a + to Int.
While...Of the other 3 Gnome Subraces 2 {Svirfnebli and Forest Gnomes} actually got a Penalty to Int and a + to Wis!
And Tinkers had no bonus or penalty to Int!

Tinkers were known for being scatterbrained so a penalty to Wis is obvious but I think 2nd Ed. got it right with Int - No Bonus or Penalty! {your statement that the Iconic Tinker has +Int as well as Dex I assume comes from 3.5?}.


Gnomes are the ONE extreme example of where 2nd Ed. would work far better for DDO than 3+

Faerunian Forest Gnomes could be given +2 Wis/Dex and -2 Str/Int
Underdark Svirfneblin could be given +2 Wis/Dex and -2 Int/Cha
Tinkers and Rock Gnomes could be ignored for now.

And 4th Ed's +2 Int fits the Eberron Zilargo Gnomes better than 3.5 too if the Devs want to give us an Eberron Gnome race.
BUT
I'd much prefer the +Wis Gnome races be added first personally!

[FranOhmsford]

Why? No one would force you to play them.

And if other people playing them is what causes you grief, well... all I can say is "Get over it."

All I'm saying is, "Don't go around trying to break other people's toys just because you don't want to play with them."

No-one forced me to play WF either!

BUT

WF back in 2010-2012 were the clear #1 Race in-game and you couldn't move without seeing at least one of em!

The Devs went on completely the wrong tack with the WF Nerf too - Removing Immunities just irritated people rather than actually hurting the race gameplay wise!

BF is Iconic only so much less widespread.

My worry with races like Tieflings/Aasimar, Shifters/Changelings/Lycanthropes and Half Dragons is that they'll be so OP comparative to the standard races that we'll BE forced to play them or accept being gimp and not allowed into Groups!

And nerfing them to be simply a new skin over an existing template isn't the answer!

Gnomes fit for a +Wis race {well 2 Gnome Sub-Races anyway!}.
Kobolds if modelled on DDO Kobolds would work as a +Dex/Cha race!
Sylvan Elves could be added as another +Str/Dex race with the existing - to Con of ALL Elves and a - to Cha signifying their extreme xenophobia!
Mountain Dwarves could be given +Wis/Con and -Int/Dex for those of us who want to play the Iconic Dwarf Battle Cleric of PnP!

I'd like to see Orc Druids too - The Gatekeepers of Eberron - added as PCs BUT H-Orc currently doesn't fit well with that - The Devs could add Orc as a +2 Wis/+2 Str race with -2 Int/Cha!

[Failedlegend]

Just the Standard PHB Gnome {Rock Gnomes} got a + to Int.

So...your agreeing with me than. I obviously didn't me EVERY gnome variant as well

your statement that the Iconic Tinker has +Int as well as Dex I assume comes from 3.5?

Well considering that's where the stats for every other race in DDO came from it's the default assumption when talking about races yes.

Gnomes are the ONE extreme example of where 2nd Ed. would work far better for DDO than 3+

I'd be down for that considering I hate the base 3.5 gnomes although to match DDO standards the +Int/-Wis would need to be set to 2

I'd much prefer the +Wis Gnome races be added first personally!

And thus in lies the problem with Gnomes everyone views them differently and wants a different kind...they'd likely need to release a "gnome pack" or "Pack o' Gnomes" to launch them to the communities satisfaction

No-one forced me to play WF either!

BUT

WF back in 2010-2012 were the clear #1 Race in-game and you couldn't move without seeing at least one of em!

A) No they weren't they were popular at first because they were new, same reason you saw Half-orc, arties and Druids everywhere when they first came out, it's a symptom of being new.
B) That was the Devs, Turbines or WBs fault not the race
C) Who cares it's got nothing to do with you

My worry with races like Tieflings/Aasimar, Shifters/Changelings/Lycanthropes and Half Dragons is that they'll be OP

Why?

And changing them isn't the answer!

Why isn't it?

Gnomes fit for a +Wis race

I disagree...in my mind Gnomes have always been crazy scientists/mechanics and/or illusionists with a penchant for obsession and probably a bit of lunacy +2 Int/-2 Wis makes perfect sense to me (and NO it's not because WoW said so, WoW based their gnomes on DnD)

That said, this is another reason 4e is amazing, they gave Races variable stats to allow them to suit various people's views of the races and to eliminate the stupidness that was Level adjusted races (28pt races in DDO terms)

Kobolds if modelled on DDO Kobolds would work as a +Dex/Cha race!

Agree...prob with -Str/Wis to offset the bonus (I will scream if I see another 28pt race)

Sylvan Elves could be added as another +Str/Dex race with the existing - to Con of ALL Elves and a - to Cha signifying their extreme xenophobia!

We have MORE than enough elves thank you

Mountain Dwarves could be given +Wis/Con and -Int/Dex for those of us who want to play the Iconic Dwarf Battle Cleric of PnP!

Whilst I wouldn't complain as much to get a Dwarven Clone as if we got another Human or Elven clone, I'd much rather see unique races with interesting new traits.

That said I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to choose a sub-race when you choose your race (At creation cannot be changed unless using an item to change race, if turbine ever gets around to adding that) for some minor changes either in the enhancements or stat bumps...no model change needed...maybe just add some more skin tones (ie. add reddish colors to humans for tiefling) and/or minor differences (ie. Tiefling adds option for horns and/or tail, genasi would get their element color and possible some fire hair, earthy chunks,etc.)

ie.

Dwarf - Mountain, Shield, Hill, Duergar
Elf - Sylvan, Valenar, Aerenal, Drow, Silvanesti, Half-Elf
Halfling - Talentia, Kender, Lightfoot, Strongheart
Human - Human, Genasi, Tiefling, Aasumar
Orc - Half-Orc, Orc
Constructs - Warforged, Shardmind, Scout

Personally I'd prefer they turn iconics into normal races (no forced level and added to the race pool PDK = human, shadar-kai = human, Sun elf - elf, BF = Construct) and grant anyone who owns them Vet Status 15, except allow them to level at their leisure like Iconics do (as opposed to Vet 4/7)

I'd like to see Orc Druids too - The Gatekeepers of Eberron - added as PCs BUT H-Orc currently doesn't fit well with that - The Devs could add Orc as a +2 Wis/+2 Str race with -2 Int/Cha!

Same as above New Race > Clone.

[Drathsiddh]

Gnomes fit for a +Wis race {well 2 Gnome Sub-Races anyway!}.
Kobolds if modelled on DDO Kobolds would work as a +Dex/Cha race!
Sylvan Elves could be added as another +Str/Dex race with the existing - to Con of ALL Elves and a - to Cha signifying their extreme xenophobia!
Mountain Dwarves could be given +Wis/Con and -Int/Dex for those of us who want to play the Iconic Dwarf Battle Cleric of PnP!

Uh, actualy if you look at the enhancements, there are sub-races, elven weapon training, (Aerenal and Valenar) warforged have their healers friend/mechanic choice (whether to strive for humanity or go all out contruct) and such, so it seems to me to be a much more versatile sub-race system than PnP, in which you are bound to you're character creation choice. Still, it is a good idea...... Not going to spoil your fun.