EH Prove your worth, 99 reflex save fails

[xrampage]

Just went in to try it, had no trouble with reflex saves at all until I hit the new descent part filled with spikes...

(Combat): You attempt to save versus trapierce. You roll a 11 (+88): save failure!

I'll admit my build is a gimpy one (12pally8rogue halfling, dex based) and that there is a safe way through it but by the time I noticed I was already dead, now I wonder what the EE reflex save for a mistake there will be.

As for the reflex save, was using only GH, could've thrown IUD and a tensers scroll for another 8, ship buffs for another 3 and would've been safe I guess, anyways, just a heads up if this hasn't been discussed.

[Eth]

What was the damage like?
Seems to me like they are going this way with more stuff. Making simply out of reach DCs on some things, but making the damage survivable - where they don't want to let players bypass it with just evasion + high reflex.

Gravity room spikes in Deathwyrm raid for example has outrageous high DCs even on EN and EH.

[Deathdefy]

Yes, the rest of the quest on EH seemed to have pretty low DCs.

I am genuinely curious what the cut-off is for those spikes though.

It's not entirely without precedent - Monastery of the Scorpion's floor spike DCs are crazy high for that level (63), but the ceiling spikes' DC is manageable (51).

I'm not convinced that's great design though. I'd nearly rather no save at all like the Reaver Raid than the false hope of a truly crazy DC.

[xrampage]

I don't recall a lot about the damage (honestly was more surprised about failing the saves than checking damage), but iirc I failed 4 times and out went my soulstone...toon has 790+ hp so that'd make over 200 each failed reflex save. I'll run the quest again later and check what damage they're making and post it.

[Teh_Troll]

What was the damage like?
Seems to me like they are going this way with more stuff. Making simply out of reach DCs on some things, but making the damage survivable - where they don't want to let players bypass it with just evasion + high reflex.

Gravity room spikes in Deathwyrm raid for example has outrageous high DCs even on EN and EH.

and this really is a poor decision when designing content.

[Bolo_Grubb]

I started the fall with 2,173 hitpoints. I tried to spot a path through the spikes. I died in just a few hits. This was on epic hard.

a guild mate had a reflex save against traps between 75 and 80 and failed on a roll of 18.

I doubt I will ever run this quest again.

[blerkington]

Hi,

I was wondering about this a while back too.

So I got all buffed up and went down through the spikes. I failed every saving throw I made (no natural 20s that time) except one:

71 base reflex +10 vs traps from past lives and enhancements and a roll of 19, for a total of 100, passed.

So it is possible for high reflex save characters to succeed other than on a natural 20.

But compared to the DCs of other traps for quests at that level (and even above that level) it's pretty silly. Plus, you also have to make multiple saves, not just one.

I wonder what the thinking was behind setting a trap DC which requires 100 or better to save. Is it a placeholder value that wasn't fixed, or is it actually meant to be that way?

The only people who know haven't bothered to tell us, despite this issue being raised many times already on the forums.

Anyway, with a little practice on casual, I found it's not hard to navigate down the shaft taking one or two hits at most, usually none. Once you can do that, EE is just the same.

Thanks.

[cru121]

EH full group: with multiple sources of strong healing, my first life gimpy pure druid managed to feather fall down alive, without any mario skills or saves worth mentioning.

[Kipling]

Just corkscrew widdershins to start then make a sharper turn to center just before bottom. This trap is clearly designed to be navigated, not disdained.

[Thalone]

I doubt I will ever run this quest again.

This is a silly attitude to have. I bet the first time you ran Shroud, Abbot, Tempest's Spine, Inferno of the Damned, In the Flesh, or any quest with weird or difficult mechanics/maps you were irritated out of your mind. Practice makes perfect.

I made a video of how to navigate this passage.

Additional ways I've seen people do/write about how to pass this:

• Someone in Shiradi hits Tea while standing on the gates without featherfall; someone pulls the lever; Shiradi drops down while invulnerable and opens the shortcut.
• Heal amp and multiple sources of healing (SF pots, Cocoon, Renewal, Healing Spring, scrolls (not so great with the concentration checks needed), spells; rotate healing sources as you take damage. Have people up top wait and heal you while you're still in range.
• Massive PRR. I've seen someone who didn't know the route with terrible self-healing pretty much drop down on EE and survive.
• Improved Evasion characters probably still take half damage on fails, rather than full.

[PsychoBlonde]

• Someone in Shiradi hits Tea while standing on the gates without featherfall; someone pulls the lever; Shiradi drops down while invulnerable and opens the shortcut.
• Heal amp and multiple sources of healing (SF pots, Cocoon, Renewal, Healing Spring, scrolls (not so great with the concentration checks needed), spells; rotate healing sources as you take damage. Have people up top wait and heal you while you're still in range.
• Massive PRR. I've seen someone who didn't know the route with terrible self-healing pretty much drop down on EE and survive.
• Improved Evasion characters probably still take half damage on fails, rather than full.

Yep, I've seen all of those work. Ran it on EE first time on my rogue and made it through the spikes without really having any clue what I was doing. My TR buddy followed and landed at -3 (he has massive PRR and a lot of HP on that life).

The thing is that only ONE party member has to make it through the spikes and then be able to successfully fight the warforged ambush in the next room. You can pull a lever in the puzzle room to let the rest of the party through--they don't have to come through all the traps and stuff with you. It's ultimately no worse and no more difficult than the Crucible swim, and people do that all the time.

[Seikojin]

Just corkscrew widdershins to start then make a sharper turn to center just before bottom. This trap is clearly designed to be navigated, not disdained.

This. So a trap that kills is a gamebreaker? fwp I say.

[Seikojin]

This is a silly attitude to have. I bet the first time you ran Shroud, Abbot, Tempest's Spine, Inferno of the Damned, In the Flesh, or any quest with weird or difficult mechanics/maps you were irritated out of your mind. Practice makes perfect.

I made a video of how to navigate this passage.

Additional ways I've seen people do/write about how to pass this:

• Someone in Shiradi hits Tea while standing on the gates without featherfall; someone pulls the lever; Shiradi drops down while invulnerable and opens the shortcut.
• Heal amp and multiple sources of healing (SF pots, Cocoon, Renewal, Healing Spring, scrolls (not so great with the concentration checks needed), spells; rotate healing sources as you take damage. Have people up top wait and heal you while you're still in range.
• Massive PRR. I've seen someone who didn't know the route with terrible self-healing pretty much drop down on EE and survive.
• Improved Evasion characters probably still take half damage on fails, rather than full.

The 10k hp epic moment works too.

[psykopeta]

Just went in to try it, had no trouble with reflex saves at all until I hit the new descent part filled with spikes...

(Combat): You attempt to save versus trapierce. You roll a 11 (+88): save failure!

I'll admit my build is a gimpy one (12pally8rogue halfling, dex based) and that there is a safe way through it but by the time I noticed I was already dead, now I wonder what the EE reflex save for a mistake there will be.

As for the reflex save, was using only GH, could've thrown IUD and a tensers scroll for another 8, ship buffs for another 3 and would've been safe I guess, anyways, just a heads up if this hasn't been discussed.

bring someone with evade, who hasn't done ever litany of dead on elite at lvl (notice i said evade )

prolly he/she will die too

mechanic is exactly the same: learn the path in lower diffs (heroic elite also gives max favor iirc) then u will be able to do it in higher diffs, like happened with cruci etc

100 reflex on an "unavoidable" (only 1 has to do it, sigh, could get locked at end like in litany so ppl dont come later ) trap in EE for a lvl 28? quest

is the least i expect, to call it challenge: or u know it or need god damm luck

i would rather more of that "know it or die" mechanic than 10k hp trash spawning x 200 once u trigger boss

but ofc, adding a random portion would make it real challenge, in fact if all was random would be nicer, the only thing u lose are buffs and 10% base xp

if not its just another quest

[Dilbon]

When you're farming the quest for the pirate hat you do learn how to navigate the shaft without hitting the spikes.

[Certon]

When you're farming the quest for the pirate hat you do learn how to navigate the shaft without hitting the spikes.

Also, you learn to tell a hireling to follow you as soon as you jump so it teleports and falls through the spikes unharmed so that it can res you if you fail.