U22 Loot Thread - Epic 3BC

[JOTMON]

Seriously?! You don't think that a non-raid item with 2 top-end effects and 3 augment slots might be just slightly OP? I'm all for having better gear, but if you want your requests to be taken seriously, you might want to keep them reasonable and in-line with loot we have now. I think we already have too much power creep as it is, so NO. Just no.


Just for the record, I still use at least situationally the PDK gloves at cap, on any toon that has a use for healing amp. Considering these gloves are a pretty big upgrade on the PDK gloves, they are a fine endgame item for many builds even at cap.
+8 strength instead of +10 or even +11 isn't that big of a loss except on chars that focus on tactics (oh boy I lose 1 to hit, and maybe 2 damage, whatever shall I do now that I'm so gimped). And while I agree that the +7 resistance is underwhelming, it's consistent with most named ML 24 items, and you can always equip something else for the saves boost.

To all the people who said this was a good idea, I'm wondering if you're either joking or drunk, because it's perfectly obvious that the item JOTMON asked for is completely OP.

How so?
Maybe I dont want STR on my gloves maybe I want dex, or wis, or some other stat.. maybe I would prefer protection over Resistance..
As new packs come out and we get higher in level the gear should better fit our personal needs.
Why not have more augments on gear.. especially in light of the work that went into creating and revamping the augment system.

Greensteel was(and likely still is) the best of the best because it offered the ability to put what you want where you want.

These gloves should be better than PDK.. PDK is level 20 so your PDK comparison is not relevent...
as to healing amp.. I can craft a offhand GS healing amp stick with 10%/20%/30% for use at level 12..its situationally usefull.. but at epic levels I want more consolidation.

We already have items with 2 or more augment slots in Gianthold.. why not 3BC.

Am I asking for too much.. maybe.. my point was more directed towards converting augmentable effects into multi purpose slots and being able to change those to be more flexible for all players.
As well as giving these same items a greater level usage for those that choose to spend augments to improve them.. it doesnt affect those that choose not to change the potential augments in any way.


btw: Insulting people by telling them they are jokesters or drunk is not going to add to your credibility.

[jaegarnel]

How so?
Maybe I dont want STR on my gloves maybe I want dex, or wis, or some other stat.. maybe I would prefer protection over Resistance..
As new packs come out and we get higher in level the gear should better fit our personal needs.
Why not have more augments on gear.. especially in light of the work that went into creating and revamping the augment system.

Greensteel was(and likely still is) the best of the best because it offered the ability to put what you want where you want.

These gloves should be better than PDK.. PDK is level 20 so your PDK comparison is not relevent...
as to healing amp.. I can craft a offhand GS healing amp stick with 10%/20%/30% for use at level 12..its situationally usefull.. but at epic levels I want more consolidation.

We already have items with 2 or more augment slots in Gianthold.. why not 3BC.

Am I asking for too much.. maybe.. my point was more directed towards converting augmentable effects into multi purpose slots and being able to change those to be more flexible for all players.
As well as giving these same items a greater level usage for those that choose to spend augments to improve them.. it doesnt affect those that choose not to change the potential augments in any way.


btw: Insulting people by telling them they are jokesters or drunk is not going to add to your credibility.

The gloves are *already* way better than PDK gloves.
Vitality +40 is the best version of that effect, and so is +30% healing amp (although healing amp stacks). If these gloves only had those 2 effects they'd already be a pretty good item for most people.
Adding 3 augment slots (and you know no other item except dragontouched weapons can have more than 2 slots right?) would make them by far the best gloves in the game. I'm sorry but I don't think that there should be a clear best in slot, let alone that it should come from a lvl 25 quest.

As they are the mitts can be a very worthwhile option for endgame gear, while your solution would make them OP. It's that simple.
I might agree with your suggestion if they were raid loot, but not for a BtA item that comes from a lvl 25 quest.

Oh, and I frankly don't care what you think of my credibility, considering that imo the very fact you suggested this change doesn't say much for yours.

[Drwaz99]

(and you know no other item except dragontouched weapons can have more than 2 slots right?)

Look here:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Update_17_named_items

I count a quick 3 items with 3 slots. (Mountain's Fist, Adamantine Knuckles and Skyvault Shield)

There's a reason that EE Gianthold items are still coveted. And they are level 25.

[PermaBanned]

...you know no other item except dragontouched weapons can have more than 2 slots right?

A) What are Dragontouched weapons?

B) In addition to Drwaz99's list above, there's also the min level 5 Luck Blade with 3 slots.

[merridyan]

A) What are Dragontouched weapons?

B) In addition to Drwaz99's list above, there's also the min level 5 Luck Blade with 3 slots.

And now a new trinket in 3BC with 3 slots.

[RobbinB]

Seriously guys, they are not going to put 30% healing amp, vitality 40, and 3 augment slots on a level 24 item. Asking them to slot a level 28 augment on top of all that is a meaningless debate to have.

Keep your asks realistic and you might actually get them.

This is the problem with the loot-flation in this game. It's actually made the playerbase become as out of touch with reality as the devs. PDK gloves are level 20 and awesome for that level. Almost every toon I have wears them at level 20, many of my toons still at level 28. So now you make a better item that is an definitive upgrade at only 4 ml higher and it's not good enough? I mean it gives you the same things and more. What's not to like?

I can't believe there's a serious suggestion for a level 28 version keeping the vitality and healing amp and upping the strength and resist to +10. That's 4 awesome properties at (nearly) max value. Maybe I've been playing this game too long, but I recall the days when one unique property at max value made an item worthwhile.

[PermaBanned]

And now a new trinket in 3BC with 3 slots.

o.O

What trinket? I've only seen the Boots, Gloves & Rapier from the thread...

[Drwaz99]

o.O

What trinket? I've only seen the Boots, Gloves & Rapier from the thread...

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Cove-Treasure

[Gremmlynn]

One thing that has to be fixed about that new rapier...Durability 45, hardness 10. It'll last all of 5 seconds against high level mobs. Even low level vendor trash rapiers have double the durability this thing has.

That would be because they have not set a loot level to it yet. I would assume, due to the way durability and hardness go up when Caneth Crafting, that it is based on the items loot level. The item shown has no loot level, or minimum level, on it yet.

[Gremmlynn]

The problem with this logic (and the dozens of other posts that agree with it) is that you're going to be complaining REALLY bitterly about thin content when there's Haunted Halls, 2 raids and one 30th level pack to do from 28 to 30.

Perhaps if Turbine shared their content goals for the cap raise this would be less of an issue, but it just seems like poor strategic placement from where I'm sitting.

I'd agree if epic had the same narrow over-level penalties heroic does. But it doesn't so I'll have plenty of content that gives full xp and is not much different in difficulty than content that is labeled level 28, 29 and 30.

[Gremmlynn]

Oh really? Just screw the power gamers then huh? Nice attitude there.

It's actually a realistic attitude. Better to concentrate on satisfying the customers you actually can satisfy than fail at trying to satisfy those you are not capable of doing so with.

[kmoustakas]

I believe all 3 items are wonderful utility items that would drop in a wilderness area. If the gloves were to be +40 hp 30% healing amp + 3 slots, they should be raid loot and not random wilderness loot. The boots are a great utility item, I don't understand what people expected from wilderness loot. Best in slot item for half the builds out there should ONLY be raid loot. I don't think the way to go is another GH where Prison of the Planes has better/equal loot than/to the raid itself.

And if you want wonderful healing amp bracers, pump* VOD to level 28 and change the bracers to +11 str, 30% healing amp, colourless slot with +40 vitality augment, good set bonus with the shield and min level 28.

* Remove heroic and make an epic only version. Or better yet, make it old school epic version that drops seals/shards/scrolls.

[Cetus]

It's actually a realistic attitude. Better to concentrate on satisfying the customers you actually can satisfy than fail at trying to satisfy those you are not capable of doing so with.

This post has the assumption that power gamers can't be satisfied. I **clearly** have thrudh (who is the power gamer antagonist in this thread) saying that he enjoyed stormhorns and wheloon when they were released - entirely ENDGAME quests. I agreed with him, and was very happy with it myself.

Actually - here's a thread that **I** started when I first saw stormhorns: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...he-Storm-Horns!


So...it seems that it is possible, at least by this example - to release a single update and make both the casual and endgame folks happy. Why not do it then? Endgame appeals to EVERYONE, I still run stormhorns and wheloon on both my capped characters AND on those getting xp (especially WGU, that quest was is simply a success). Mid-level uselessness such as this upcoming pack appeals to few.

[redspecter23]

This post has the assumption that power gamers can't be satisfied. I **clearly** have thrudh (who is the power gamer antagonist in this thread) saying that he enjoyed stormhorns and wheloon when they were released - entirely ENDGAME quests. I agreed with him, and was very happy with it myself.

Actually - here's a thread that **I** started when I first saw stormhorns: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...he-Storm-Horns!


So...it seems that it is possible, at least by this example - to release a single update and make both the casual and endgame folks happy. Why not do it then? Endgame appeals to EVERYONE, I still run stormhorns and wheloon on both my capped characters AND on those getting xp (especially WGU, that quest was is simply a success). Mid-level uselessness such as this upcoming pack appeals to few.

I agree with the spirit of this post. Why not try to please everyone? I suppose Turbine thinks they are. You can make leveling content that appeals to end gamers. I'll give Turbine credit in a few areas. This loot overall is at a much better level than that of Stormhorns and Wheloon. Yes, there are some weak items and way too much flavor, but I don't see any Magistrate's Scepters here. Even the poor weapon types they are trying to push here like sickle and greatclub are at least moderately interesting. Most of this loot has some sort of use, even if it's passing to alts that don't have a ton of btcoe or btc loot yet. I personally would have put in a few more high power level items for people to chase after, but the boots and gloves are at least usable even on some endgame builds so there is some potential there.

Speaking on a personal level, I hate 3bc quests and have no interest in playing them at all. I'm wondering why they would epicify a pack that has a great many people that dislike it, even if it does have some that enjoy the content. When you're only doing a few packs a year, why wouldn't Vale be a top priority? It must have a larger fan base than 3bc. In my opinion the only worse pack to make epic would be Titan, but at least in that case, it could get some much needed polish during the pass. I'd prefer an epic version of Tear of Dhakaan over 3bc and that's only a single quest. Give it the Haunted Halls treatment and make the epic version build off the heroic version and be double the size with extra passages and such. At any rate, this is just a personal preference rant, so feel free to disagree.

We very badly need level 28+ content NOW, not 6 months from now when we're talking about a cap raise to 30. We need content in place before the cap increase. As much as new leveling content is needed, new cap content is needed more. Turbine as of right now is intent on pushing another unnecessary cap increase upon us without enough dungeons to justify it. This should have been level 29 content so we have something to level off of in the new year. Also higher level content gives the potential for interesting random loot (if they can ever unghostbane it). I'm not interested in opening more level 24 chests. I got my chance at that 2 years ago. I want to be able to loot some really high level chests with a chance at +5 tomes or maybe +6 if high enough. 3bc doesn't deliver that.

In short, I'm not playing the quests for fun, as I wasn't doing that in heroic anyway. I'm not playing them for random loot as the chests are lower level than current content. It's unknown if I'll care about the xp, but my gut tells me that they will be horrible xp/min just based on Turbine's track record. I'd love to be wrong on that one. I may go in to get some of the new loot, but that's about it. This fails on 2 of my 3 criteria for a successful pack and barely passes the last. Fun/XP/loot. Any quest with all 3 is pure win and this pack falls short for me.

[Deathdefy]

This post has the assumption that power gamers can't be satisfied. I **clearly** have thrudh (who is the power gamer antagonist in this thread) saying that he enjoyed stormhorns and wheloon when they were released - entirely ENDGAME quests. I agreed with him, and was very happy with it myself.

Actually - here's a thread that **I** started when I first saw stormhorns: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...he-Storm-Horns!


So...it seems that it is possible, at least by this example - to release a single update and make both the casual and endgame folks happy. Why not do it then? Endgame appeals to EVERYONE, I still run stormhorns and wheloon on both my capped characters AND on those getting xp (especially WGU, that quest was is simply a success). Mid-level uselessness such as this upcoming pack appeals to few.

To be fair, that was day one, without spoilers, and you did the whole lot on EE without a healer and described it as being on the easy side.

I also don't think 'mid-level epics appeal to few' can be backed up by stats. Either can the converse particularly, but they're both bald assertions.

I'm not super pro a million mid-level epics, and do hope the devs are thinking about developing quests for the higher twenties in anticipation of the cap raise, but I think this pack being mid-twenties given:
- the last update was 2 end-game raids (which it's my understanding many non-elite players can't hack or contribute in) + an end-game quest,
- the update before that was a level 26 and 28 quest, and
- the update before that was the expansion itself

is a totally and utterly reasonable decision that doesn't deserve the level and frequency of criticism you're giving it.

[Cetus]

To be fair, that was day one, without spoilers, and you did the whole lot on EE without a healer and described it as being on the easy side.

I also don't think 'mid-level epics appeal to few' can be backed up by stats. Either can the converse particularly, but they're both bald assertions.

I'm not super pro a million mid-level epics, and do hope the devs are thinking about developing quests for the higher twenties in anticipation of the cap raise, but I think this pack being mid-twenties given:
- the last update was 2 end-game raids (which it's my understanding many non-elite players can't hack or contribute in) + an end-game quest,
- the update before that was a level 26 and 28 quest, and
- the update before that was the expansion itself

is a totally and utterly reasonable decision that doesn't deserve the level and frequency of criticism you're giving it.

1. 3 barrel cove will also be day 1, and without spoilers. this cancels out, so there goes your first point.

2. Even if I described it as being on the easy side, what does that have to do with the frequency with which I replay the quests? Non-sequiter, there goes your 2nd point.

3. I don't need stat backup - its a logical conclusion. Endgame EE content, by virtue of its position on the level spectrum necessarily accommodates the endgame players, because well, its at CAP level with EE statted mobs and ML 28 loot. It also necessarily accommodates XP-seeking, more casual players because it has a casual, normal, and hard difficulty with appropriately statted mobs, and equal level gear. You don't need statistics to understand this point. So, there went your third point - it isn't assertion, its a combination of simple logic and frequent observation of my own questing patterns and those of others - wheloon/stormhorns are both excellent series of quests to XP through, with normal/hard level gear that augments the effort AS WELL AS an excellent endgame environment where you can play your capped characters and take advantage of endgame gear such as stolen necklaces, goatskin boots, consuming darknesses...etc. (all THREE of which my endgame fighter has equipped btw).

There's EVEN a heroic version of these quests. This content covers an amazing amount of players.

4. This is not a reasonable decision. You can run off the trend presented in the last several updates, but that doesn't improve our starvation for endgame challenges RIGHT NOW.

[Deathdefy]

1. 3 barrel cove will also be day 1, and without spoilers. this cancels out, so there goes your first point.

Sure, I meant you're saying you were satisfied with Stormhorns - for how long did that satisfaction last given the speed and ease of your completion? That's intended to be rhetorical - please don't use the fact you're playing it now as a convoluted proof for it being as enjoyable.

2. Even if I described it as being on the easy side, what does that have to do with the frequency with which I replay the quests? Non-sequiter, there goes your 2nd point.

I think for most people there's some additional pleasure and therefore replayability in content that challenges them.

3. I don't need stat backup - its a logical conclusion. Endgame EE content, by virtue of its position on the level spectrum necessarily accommodates the endgame players, because well, its at CAP level with EE statted mobs and ML 28 loot. It also necessarily accommodates XP-seeking, more casual players because it has a casual, normal, and hard difficulty with appropriately statted mobs, and equal level gear. You don't need statistics to understand this point.

The point I was addressing was your assertion that mid-level content appeals to few. You're not responding to that. You're restating that content designed for cap is good, which isn't mutually exclusive with the idea that mid-level content appeals to more than 'few'.

So, there went your third point - it isn't assertion, its a combination of simple logic and frequent observation of my own questing patterns and those of others - wheloon/stormhorns are both excellent series of quests to XP through, with normal/hard level gear that augments the effort AS WELL AS an excellent endgame environment where you can play your capped characters and take advantage of endgame gear such as stolen necklaces, goatskin boots, consuming darknesses...etc. (all THREE of which my endgame fighter has equipped btw).

I think everyone understands that end-game content will be played by capped characters.

There's EVEN a heroic version of these quests. This content covers an amazing amount of players.

Yeah, agreed. I like heroic versions of quests for wholly new content too.

4. This is not a reasonable decision. You can run off the trend presented in the last several updates, but that doesn't improve our starvation for endgame challenges RIGHT NOW.

Right, but you've sort of got to wonder how many consecutive updates of endgame content the devs have to give before you'd allow them a pack dedicated to serial epic TR people or another group. If it's not 3, is it 4?

[Wizza]

Right, but you've sort of got to wonder how many consecutive updates of endgame content the devs have to give before you'd allow them a pack dedicated to serial epic TR people or another group. If it's not 3, is it 4?

Why can't they do both? EN being ML24, EH ML26, EE ML28. Everyone is satisfied. Keep the loot tiered for EN/EH/EE and EVERYONE will have what they want.

This way? Casual gamers get what they want and us endgamers are left with NOTHING. We literally have NOTHING to run in endgame but the new raids on EE. And there are still 3 months away from the next raise cap level/next update. What are we supposed to do in these 3 months? Running EE What Goes Up another 343201234 times?

[Grimlock]

Mid-level uselessness such as this upcoming pack appeals to few.

This.

[MeliCat]

I'm happy to TR and am slow to do so and have plenty to do. But I agree with others in that this is not end game and please hear us when we say hurry up and get to 30 and provide us with a *real* end game.

Why were we happy to be at 20 for so long? Epics were (sort of) hard and truly end game. It was cap.

This middling waiting is draining.

I know of people who don't TR, don't ETR and this time is boring. They just afk from the game. TRing is not something they do. If they stick their head in for this update it might be for like, a couple of hours and that's it.

So yes, thank you for this content for those of us who TR, ETR and iTR. The round of Imp Dem, Rusted, von3, von2, Claw, TBF (or whatever your favoured 1 hour with ship buffs first time xp run is) was getting a little boring and something extra to do is good. But its not cap.