The Meteor Shower: 12Monk/5Wizard/3Rogue Shuriken Insanity

[Chewysc]

Or you can just use quiver of alatricity til you get blinding speed or haste spam option,
but i dont know if it works with throwers, better option is to buy a huge stack of haste pots and make couple gsteels

I'm pretty sure it does as I noticed a difference between my level 18 toon who has a Quiver but only 6 levels of monk VS my other shuri thrower who doesn't have a Quiver and has 18 levels of monk. Both were max Dex.

Now how about Gilvenors and Quiver? That should be stacking speed goodness from level 18 onwards until Blinding Speed... if only we were all that lucky to have both (actually all three items) in the bank =D

[jakeelala]

I'm pretty sure it does as I noticed a difference between my level 18 toon who has a Quiver but only 6 levels of monk VS my other shuri thrower who doesn't have a Quiver and has 18 levels of monk. Both were max Dex.

Now how about Gilvenors and Quiver? That should be stacking speed goodness from level 18 onwards until Blinding Speed... if only we were all that lucky to have both (actually all three items) in the bank =D

BaB is the difference.

Quiver does not stack with any enhancement bonuses. Your 18 Monk had a higher BaB centered than the other character.

Gilvenors stacks with everything.

[funnyone]

I recently made an ooze offhand weapon under the impression that it would proc on my shuriken throws, but it does not. Is the WAI or the same bug that doesn't allow sting of the ninja to work with shruiken?

[jakeelala]

I recently made an ooze offhand weapon under the impression that it would proc on my shruiken throws, but it does not. Is the WAI or the same bug that doesn't allow sting of the ninja to work with shruiken?

I have an ooze shuriken. I do not know if ooze can proc offhand or not.

I noticed none of the things that are supposed to proc offhand on an Alchem kama are proccing either. Don't know if this is a recent change or was always true for the named items and offhand procs.

[funnyone]

I have an ooze shuriken. I do not know if ooze can proc offhand or not.

I noticed none of the things that are supposed to proc offhand on an Alchem kama are proccing either. Don't know if this is a recent change or was always true for the named items and offhand procs.

I've seen several people claim that it works. I also tried it with a random gen shuriken and it still didn't work, so it doesn't appear to be exclusive to named.

[elcagador]

Wind stance says in description that give enhancement bonus to meele and thrown attack speed (although don't show in ranged attack speed bonus) , does it stack with ranged alacrity from cannith crafting?

[jakeelala]

Wind stance says in description that give enhancement bonus to meele and thrown attack speed (although don't show in ranged attack speed bonus) , does it stack with ranged alacrity from cannith crafting?

my testing indicated wind stance has zero effect on thrown attack speed

[funnyone]

I'm currently sitting at a 75 standing dex with blinding speed, which could be raised to 76 (by swapping blinding speed out for another great dexterity feat). Which path would net me more DPS in your opinion?

[jakeelala]

I'm currently sitting at a 75 standing dex with blinding speed, which could be raised to 76 (by swapping blinding speed out for another great dexterity feat). Which path would net me more DPS in your opinion?

what ed? do you have whirling wrists? with tensors and ww you're basically at capped thrown speed, so go dex.

[SealedInSong]

I really dig this build, Jake. Flavorful, clever, and obviously sickeningly effective.

I hate TRing, so quick question: assuming they were to fix halfling, when you said "no brainer," do you mean that you'd 100% switch over to halfling for your endgame build? I ask this because if I TR to a similar build, I'd prefer to never have to TR away from that specific race again.

Moreover, do you anticipate swashbuckler and SWF feats to possibly sway your future builds?

I know the second question is somewhat hazy but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again for sharing.

[Blackheartox]

I really dig this build, Jake. Flavorful, clever, and obviously sickeningly effective.

I hate TRing, so quick question: assuming they were to fix halfling, when you said "no brainer," do you mean that you'd 100% switch over to halfling for your endgame build? I ask this because if I TR to a similar build, I'd prefer to never have to TR away from that specific race again.

Moreover, do you anticipate swashbuckler and SWF feats to possibly sway your future builds?

I know the second question is somewhat hazy but I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks again for sharing.

Can answer that, halfling is no brainer, best tree for throwers over all races, the crit thingies alone make it worth to go halfling.

Swf wont work with throwers

[XL_Jockey]

After seeing this build on the other forum for a while I had looked into TRing into a Halfling. I ended up taking the same base concept which is a min of 6Mnk for 10kStars, 5Wiz for perma-tensors and 3Rog for Shadow Dodge.

When you start with that, it's a mix if what you want. I wanted Improved Evasion, so Monk had to be at least 9. 4 Rog gives Uncanny dodge, which I'm a fan of, and taking that means I can cap my dodge without the Dodge feat, so that opens up room to take Shuriken Expertise. 5 Rog was another SA dice, and 6 Rog gives the ability to tumble through enemies, so no need to twist Unearthly Reactions. I liked Wiz for a few more SP, but really it wasn't much. In the end I decided on 9Mnk/6Rog/5Wiz. I'm currently lvl 4 and glad I made the choice so far. This allows for flexibility later by putting some APs into Halfling for crit range on thrown weapons if/when it gets fixed, plus halflings get all the dex benefits and decent saves. Starting with a 6Str was a challenge at first (had to bank all my green bags) but really isn't a huge deal.

I don't have Completionist, so that opened up the feat for Master of Forms at 12. I planned out the feats in Ron's latest planner and they all worked and fit nicely, taking them in the same approximate order as the OP.

[domandi]

So I have been playing with the character planner, and as far as enhancements go, I just can't get all I want. Build is 9 rog, 6 monk, 5 wiz. The only real reason for going Halfling is the +crit range and the dex. However, after getting tensers in EK, I just can't seem to fit in no mercy, shadow dodge and the Halfling crit range.

I have to spend 16 in Halfling to get crit range, 31 in EK to get tensers, 11 in ninja to get shadow veil, and at least 18 in acrobat to get shadow dodge. That leaves me 4 points. The only thing I can think of is to take the extra dex and 2 ranks of no mercy from acrobat.

How does that look? I think I get a total of 7 more dex from enhancements.

Now, this is assuming they eventually fix the Halfling crit range. I could just go human and lose some saves, one dex, and non working crit range, but gain 15% healing amp, 10 heal power, full no mercy, 5 more meters to PBS and an extra feat.

Thinking about it, human is looking really good.

Thoughts?

[Xiadais]

So I have been playing with the character planner, and as far as enhancements go, I just can't get all I want. Build is 9 rog, 6 monk, 5 wiz. The only real reason for going Halfling is the +crit range and the dex. However, after getting tensers in EK, I just can't seem to fit in no mercy, shadow dodge and the Halfling crit range.

I have to spend 16 in Halfling to get crit range, 31 in EK to get tensers, 11 in ninja to get shadow veil, and at least 18 in acrobat to get shadow dodge. That leaves me 4 points. The only thing I can think of is to take the extra dex and 2 ranks of no mercy from acrobat.

How does that look? I think I get a total of 7 more dex from enhancements.

Now, this is assuming they eventually fix the Halfling crit range. I could just go human and lose some saves, one dex, and non working crit range, but gain 15% healing amp, 10 heal power, full no mercy, 5 more meters to PBS and an extra feat.

Thinking about it, human is looking really good.

Thoughts?

Short-people IPS still exists. Going human, you also miss the 2 racial dex, not just the one from enhancements. If you don't try to go for the halfling crit range, since it's not working, the enhancements work out nicely for halflings. Unless you're trying to go for zen archery and manyshot, shuriken builds aren't all that feat starved.

Just some extra considerations.

[jakeelala]

So I have been playing with the character planner, and as far as enhancements go, I just can't get all I want. Build is 9 rog, 6 monk, 5 wiz. The only real reason for going Halfling is the +crit range and the dex. However, after getting tensers in EK, I just can't seem to fit in no mercy, shadow dodge and the Halfling crit range.

I have to spend 16 in Halfling to get crit range, 31 in EK to get tensers, 11 in ninja to get shadow veil, and at least 18 in acrobat to get shadow dodge. That leaves me 4 points. The only thing I can think of is to take the extra dex and 2 ranks of no mercy from acrobat.

How does that look? I think I get a total of 7 more dex from enhancements.

Now, this is assuming they eventually fix the Halfling crit range. I could just go human and lose some saves, one dex, and non working crit range, but gain 15% healing amp, 10 heal power, full no mercy, 5 more meters to PBS and an extra feat.

Thinking about it, human is looking really good.

Thoughts?

Shadow Dodge is only 13, 15 if you take the dex point at Tier 3 also.

I am currently running Elf 9 Rogue / 6 Monk /5 Wiz because I'm doing Shadowdancer and Sneak Attack is a big focus. Elf gives me SA range that is so importnat. In SD, I don't make stuff helpless anymore, and the biggest HP bags I fight are Red/Purple names, so frankly No Mercy isn't that attractive to me anymore. For ETR'ing? Of course it's awesome. For end game raiding? For me, not so much.

That being said, the highest DPS variant of this build would be halfing, which gets even more SA dice, but at a much shorter range, coupled with the Throwing crit enhancement. Though to be fair, what you have to sacrifice for it makes it so the DPS increase is actually not nearly as large and you might think it was. Because recall, only about a 1/3rd of your damage/shuriken comes from physical damage, which is all it increases. ANd it costs all those AP.

Of course, increases damage from procs that proc on crit, but only marginally. If you're doing about 80 physical damage a star, and about 70-80 SA damage a star, and about 70 proc damage a star, 8-10% more damage from crits is largely only applied to the first 80 physical damage you do. Even if it makes 1 or two of your high damage on crit procs go off more often, like Crippling Flames (Tier 3 Thunderforged, ~200-somthing damage on a crit) that makes that proc go from 20 average damage a star to 40 damage a star. That's 20 damage is a lot, but I never use Crippling flames over Mortal fear, and that's really the only proc you can get that would make such an enormous damage difference from having better crit range.

For the physical damage part, it would net you around 8 damage per star give or take.

Not sure personally how much superior that is in real life play to having 10 meters of SA range from Elf, and more AP for other things. If you fully gear for 100% fort debuff, run in SD, and wear the Dragon Masque along with Avithoul/Backstabbers/Whatever gives SA and Deception/Imp Deception procs like me, with 9 rogue levels, that switch to halfling and crit threat increase is a harder choice.

Honestly, I should probably just go halfing, deal with the smaller SA range, and gain some SA dice and the crit threat. Once I know for CERTAIN that halfing crit is fixed, it's pretty likely I will TR into one for this character.

Hope that helps.

[jakeelala]

Oh and by the way, if you like this thread, please consider giving it 4 or 5 Stars under Thread Tools.

There are a couple of angry/jealous haters out there voting it one star to make it look less well-regarded than their own threads. Obviously, if you truly don't like it, vote it down.

[DrakeFury]

I was kinda wondering about dexterity breakdown:

20 base
6 level up
5 tome
4 monk stance
3 shadow dodge
1 feat Great dex
7 enhancements
11 item bracers
4 insightfull neck
1 exceptional
4 tenser
5 destiny (assume shadowdancer)
2 yugo
2 ship
2 twist (assume WW third twist)
2 completionist
2 inspire excelence
----
81

1 litany but you don't use it.

still those 3 missing elude me

[Nodoze]

So it looks like you get most everything with full BAB + whirling wrist. Tossing haste (blinding speed?) on top of that can give you a little more oomph, but otherwise there isn't much to do.

I'm wondering about BAB. Monks get their monk level for BAB while centered, meaning a level 28 pure monk will get 20 (monk) + 4 (epic) for a total of 24 BAB. By contrast, a wizard-splashed thrower using tensor's has 28 BAB.

Do I have that right? If so, how significant is the +4 BAB from tensor's, do you think, in terms of throws per minute? (And extrapolating that out, 30 vs 25 when the level cap goes to 30.)

Sorry if I missed it but I don't think I ever saw how much affect the 24 vs 28 BAB (or 25 vs 30) would affect throwing speed.

[domandi]

Stolen from another thread...

20 base
5 tome
7 level
4 Wind Stance
11 gear
4 insight
1 exceptional
1 profane
2 completionist
2 epic feat
2 drow ap
2 monk hm ap
2 monk ns ap
4 wiz ek (tenser) ap
3 Shadow Dodge
70

2 ship
2 yugo
2 store
76

3 epic feat (+1)
6 ed
3 twist
6 tome (+1)
89 Total Dex.

[jakeelala]

Stolen from another thread...

20 base
5 tome
7 level
4 Wind Stance
11 gear
4 insight
1 exceptional
1 profane
2 completionist
2 epic feat
2 drow ap
2 monk hm ap
2 monk ns ap
4 wiz ek (tenser) ap
3 Shadow Dodge
70

2 ship
2 yugo
2 store
76

3 epic feat (+1)
6 ed
3 twist
6 tome (+1)
89 Total Dex.

Excellent summary. Though I do not recommend taking 3 twisted Dex.