Could use some adive for a cleric TR life

[MangLord]

So I'm going into my 8th TR life, which will be artificer, but plan on doing cleric after that. I'd like some feedback on building a solid melee cleric with primary focus on the warpriest and racial trees. Cleric life is something I'd been slightly dreading, because of the suggested emphasis on defense which we all know is underwhelming in the current state of DDO. (Better at heroic levels, but evasion/dodge/blur/ghostly still works better.)

I'd prefer to keep my cleric life as pure as possible, but I'm willing to split a few levels into fighter or ranger to mitigate feats. I'm dead set against monk levels. It's too much of an easy solution to every build. I'm working off a 36pt build with +4 and +5 tomes. Again, I'm ok with a light dip into fighter or ranger levels as a solution towards the feat expense. I want to keep the split to a minimum and keep as many cleric levels as possible. Quicken and Empower Heal feats are a must have.

What is the minimum WIS I need to maintain to access higher level cleric spells? I plan to put leveling stat points into CON, primarily.

M primary focus on my TR is going pure class each life, so I can get the best feel for the strengths and limitations of each. It's way too easy to just splash a few levels of monk into everything and phone it in. I did split my fighter life 12fighter/8cleric, but that was the exception to the rule. I go pure as much as possible for this TR character. For cleric, I'd thought of a light-based caster style, but divine DCs are terrible (particularly from GH and on) and I don't want to be grinding through what I had with my crummy caster FvS life, especially coming off my current maxed INT, pure PM wizard life. She's awesome and super effective, but casting is just not my favorite style. I want to have a good time with cleric life and enjoy all 20 levels.

My initial thought for cleric life was a pure elven cleric dual wielding scimitars. I like the crit rage of scimitars and its a weapon I never delved into, so it gives me a short term goal in terms of collecting weapons during Arty life. I made a couple test builds, and found that feats were in short supply, assuming I wanted empower heal, quicken and TWF feats. Given that I have to get a minimum 17 dex for TWF feats, I figured that elven dex for damage would be good, but now I'm not so sure. It doesn't have good synergy with heavy armor and warpriest boosts. In my experience, power attack is less effective for TWF than it is for THF. I like Precision feat a lot, but it may not fit into this character. I'm looking to take advantage of racial damage bonuses and warpriest favored weapon bonuses. The issue is needing to invest 4 feats to dual wield scimitars as well as possible. Some ranger levels and tempest enhancements might be good, or fighter levels for the bonus feats, but I'd prefer to keep the class as pure as possible.

Archery seems like a good option for an elf, but its very feat intensive. I'll just be getting off a ranged life, so I'd like some variety to keep me interested.

Should I make this a STR or DEX build? I plan on using heavy armor since I have a bunch of named suits saved up, and sword and shield is just terrible. I have a few great cleric shields (Talon, Dalorents Seal, Wall of Wood, etc) but I just can't stand beating on every enemy forever. I may use Dalorents for undead heavy quests, but that would be the exception to the rule. A Sacred Defender Paladin life cured me of a desire to use shields. STR seems like the easier option than DEX, but I need to start with a 14 dex minimum to eventually qualify for all TWF feats. I understand I can supplement my melee damage with turns and some aoe spells, but my primary plan is a self healing melee character. Its something I haven't done in a while.

I plan to bypass traps with prot from energy, stoneskin, HP boosts, and the occasional rogue hire. (Maze of Madness comes to mind) A good PUG rogue is always nice, but I can't count on it. Evasion is awesome, but I managed to get by during multiple pure, non evasive lives and a bit of foresight.

I'll probably sword and board until level 3, when 15 dex will qualify me for TWF. After that I'd like to chop away with scimitars full time. I don't expect TWF greataxe damage, but I have a respectable stock of gear to maximize my effectiveness on a crit-heavy build.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[Uska]

You only need a 19 wis to cast lvl 9 spells I went pure cleric for that life but I went more caster and had fun but if your skipping monk and want melee I would go str.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Max str, put 14 points in con, the rest in cha for divine might.

Dump everything else.

you need 19 points in wis to cast lvl 9 spells, but with 8 base, +2 ship buff, +6 item +4 tome that's already 1 more than you need. Maybe put 1 point from enhancements just in case your ship buff wears out at some point before you find a +7 item.

pick up cleave and great cleave use a great axe if you don't have an esos, and if you plan on doing EE content, you might want to take 2 paladin levels instead of a fighter level. and if this is just for heroic, forget twf when cleaves can clear a room in 2 clicks. favoured weapons be damned.

everything else is gravy.

[MangLord]

I plan on TRing into my next life when I hit 20(maybe bard if swashbuckler turns out well, I have a ton of rapiers saved), so epic levels aren't an issue. I wouldn't dream of having anything less than a dodge/ghostly/blurry ranged character in EE. I've learned from past mistakes. I know I'm an average EE player at best.

So 19 WIS will grant me top end cleric spells? Is that 19 (base+tomes+leveling), or does a Con/Opp +6 WIS item make up the difference? I want to know if I have to invest 15 or 16 base WIS. An extra point or two into CHA can't hurt at the creation screen. My spells should hopefully be primarily buffs with minor AOE from Holy Smite when I get in deep before blade barrier. I'd like to use TWF for my primary source of damage. Crit range is awesome at heroics, but I don't plan to run epic quests so it's not super important to have precision. It would be cool, but not a dealbreaker.

Ideally, I don't want to click 5-6 times to hit every short-term buff for every mob fight. I'd like to kill everything, break the boxes, and move on quickly. I'd consider myself a maximized xp player with moderate emphasis on speed runs. I like conquest and ransack bonuses a lot.

As far as STR, I don't generally use a ton of pots (yugoloth, etc, etc) for buffs. Its still preferable over passive DEX? I just can't deal with remembering everything on all the hotbars all over my screen. 3-4 short term end fight buffs is all I'm willing to deal with. After that it becomes silly. It was hard enough to remember to hit Divine Favor and Haste Boost on my fighter/cleric life for major fights, especially in the heat of a PUG zerg party, but I was dealing unexpected damage as a dwarven greataxe kensei with top end passive gear and minimal DPS buffs. Kensei + dwarf trees pay major dividends. I'd like the DPS with scimitars to be similar, albeit on a single enemy. From my initial experiments, I don't think I can spare the feats for cleave and great cleave. I'd like them, but I don't see it with limited feats. I didn't take any AOE melee attacks on my pure shintao monk life and I was amazingly hard to kill.

How many fighter levels do I need for the bonus feats? I'd like to get Heal spell ASAP, with empower and quicken being a must, so I'm willing to forgo Improved TWF if I have to.

[Lonnbeimnech]

I plan on TRing into my next life when I hit 20(maybe bard if swashbuckler turns out well, I have a ton of rapiers saved), so epic levels aren't an issue. I wouldn't dream of having anything less than a dodge/ghostly/blurry ranged character in EE. I've learned from past mistakes. I know I'm an average EE player at best.

So 19 WIS will grant me top end cleric spells? Is that 19 (base+tomes+leveling), or does a Con/Opp +6 WIS item make up the difference? I want to know if I have to invest 15 or 16 base WIS. An extra point or two into CHA can't hurt at the creation screen. My spells should hopefully be primarily buffs with minor AOE from Holy Smite when I get in deep before blade barrier. I'd like to use TWF for my primary source of damage. Crit range is awesome at heroics, but I don't plan to run epic quests so it's not super important to have precision. It would be cool, but not a dealbreaker.

Ideally, I don't want to click 5-6 times to hit every short-term buff for every mob fight. I'd like to kill everything, break the boxes, and move on quickly. I'd consider myself a maximized xp player with moderate emphasis on speed runs. I like conquest and ransack bonuses a lot.

As far as STR, I don't generally use a ton of pots (yugoloth, etc, etc) for buffs. Its still preferable over passive DEX? I just can't deal with remembering everything on all the hotbars all over my screen. 3-4 short term end fight buffs is all I'm willing to deal with. After that it becomes silly. It was hard enough to remember to hit Divine Favor and Haste Boost on my fighter/cleric life for major fights, especially in the heat of a PUG zerg party, but I was dealing unexpected damage as a dwarven greataxe kensei with top end passive gear and minimal DPS buffs. Kensei + dwarf trees pay major dividends. I'd like the DPS with scimitars to be similar, albeit on a single enemy. From my initial experiments, I don't think I can spare the feats for cleave and great cleave. I'd like them, but I don't see it with limited feats. I didn't take any AOE melee attacks on my pure shintao monk life and I was amazingly hard to kill.

How many fighter levels do I need for the bonus feats? I'd like to get Heal spell ASAP, with empower and quicken being a must, so I'm willing to forgo Improved TWF if I have to.

For the purposes of casting spells, items count toward that number. So if you are making a melee cleric you can completely dump wisdom, put on your con opp, use a wisdom potion at low levels.

The thing about dex build, if you made a halfling (I know you said elf), which gets a bonus to dex and a penalty to str, and you invested nothing in str at character creation, and maxed out his dex and put all level ups into dex, you could still get your str to a higher number than your dex with all the different buffs that str has going for it. Or more simply; you can't get dex as high as you can get str, by a wide margain.

Combine that with the fact that you can add your cha modifier to your str score with divine might, and be running around with 60+ str in heroic levels on a cleric, it's no contest.

[MangLord]

Ok cool. So I'm guessing my stat priority should be STR, then CON, CHA and WIS in that order?

I will also need at least a 14 starting DEX for TWF, so I'm feeling I may be spreading my points a little thin. I'd like at least a 16 STR to start and 14 CON. Not sure how much will be left over without actually doing it.

It's too bad I can't just use a falchion as a favored weapon. Dex wouldn't matter at all.

[WeiQuinn]

*snip*
It's too bad I can't just use a falchion as a favored weapon. *snip*

If you go Valeanar Elf you can... they get bonuses for Scimitars, Shortbows and Falchions.

[eachna_gislin]

So I'm going into my 8th TR life, which will be artificer, but plan on doing cleric after that. I'd like some feedback on building a solid melee cleric with primary focus on the warpriest and racial trees. Cleric life is something I'd been slightly dreading, because of the suggested emphasis on defense which we all know is underwhelming in the current state of DDO. (Better at heroic levels, but evasion/dodge/blur/ghostly still works better.)

I'd prefer to keep my cleric life as pure as possible, but I'm willing to split a few levels into fighter or ranger to mitigate feats. I'm dead set against monk levels. It's too much of an easy solution to every build. I'm working off a 36pt build with +4 and +5 tomes. Again, I'm ok with a light dip into fighter or ranger levels as a solution towards the feat expense. I want to keep the split to a minimum and keep as many cleric levels as possible. Quicken and Empower Heal feats are a must have.

What is the minimum WIS I need to maintain to access higher level cleric spells? I plan to put leveling stat points into CON, primarily.

M primary focus on my TR is going pure class each life, so I can get the best feel for the strengths and limitations of each. It's way too easy to just splash a few levels of monk into everything and phone it in. I did split my fighter life 12fighter/8cleric, but that was the exception to the rule. I go pure as much as possible for this TR character. For cleric, I'd thought of a light-based caster style, but divine DCs are terrible (particularly from GH and on) and I don't want to be grinding through what I had with my crummy caster FvS life, especially coming off my current maxed INT, pure PM wizard life. She's awesome and super effective, but casting is just not my favorite style. I want to have a good time with cleric life and enjoy all 20 levels.

My initial thought for cleric life was a pure elven cleric dual wielding scimitars. I like the crit rage of scimitars and its a weapon I never delved into, so it gives me a short term goal in terms of collecting weapons during Arty life. I made a couple test builds, and found that feats were in short supply, assuming I wanted empower heal, quicken and TWF feats. Given that I have to get a minimum 17 dex for TWF feats, I figured that elven dex for damage would be good, but now I'm not so sure. It doesn't have good synergy with heavy armor and warpriest boosts. In my experience, power attack is less effective for TWF than it is for THF. I like Precision feat a lot, but it may not fit into this character. I'm looking to take advantage of racial damage bonuses and warpriest favored weapon bonuses. The issue is needing to invest 4 feats to dual wield scimitars as well as possible. Some ranger levels and tempest enhancements might be good, or fighter levels for the bonus feats, but I'd prefer to keep the class as pure as possible.

Archery seems like a good option for an elf, but its very feat intensive. I'll just be getting off a ranged life, so I'd like some variety to keep me interested.

Should I make this a STR or DEX build? I plan on using heavy armor since I have a bunch of named suits saved up, and sword and shield is just terrible. I have a few great cleric shields (Talon, Dalorents Seal, Wall of Wood, etc) but I just can't stand beating on every enemy forever. I may use Dalorents for undead heavy quests, but that would be the exception to the rule. A Sacred Defender Paladin life cured me of a desire to use shields. STR seems like the easier option than DEX, but I need to start with a 14 dex minimum to eventually qualify for all TWF feats. I understand I can supplement my melee damage with turns and some aoe spells, but my primary plan is a self healing melee character. Its something I haven't done in a while.

I plan to bypass traps with prot from energy, stoneskin, HP boosts, and the occasional rogue hire. (Maze of Madness comes to mind) A good PUG rogue is always nice, but I can't count on it. Evasion is awesome, but I managed to get by during multiple pure, non evasive lives and a bit of foresight.

I'll probably sword and board until level 3, when 15 dex will qualify me for TWF. After that I'd like to chop away with scimitars full time. I don't expect TWF greataxe damage, but I have a respectable stock of gear to maximize my effectiveness on a crit-heavy build.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

I don't find divine DCs to be that bad in heroic levels, it's the epics where they've been nerfed into uselessness. Also, the "light based" cleric spells either don't have saves, or at least can't be evaded. You can do pretty well with light spells without worrying about DCs. The DC spells are things like Command/Greater command, Destruction, Blade Barrier, and Cometfall.

That said, you want warpriest.

Here is the planned feat breakdown on my latest warpriest:

1-Power Attack ( + Fighter Dilettante)
3-Quicken
6-Empower Healing
9-Cleave
12-Great Cleave
15-Improved Critical: Slashing
18-Two Handed Fighting
21-Improved Two Handed Fighting
21-Greater Two Handed Fighting
24-Perfect Two Handed Fighting
26-Epic Spell Power: Positive
28-Epic Spell Power: Light

I'm a little tempted to pass up the epic Light spell power and take that epic melee feat that acts as a sort of perma-haste.

Granted, you want Two Weapon Fighting but it gives you an idea about melee feat progression on a pure cleric. This toon is 20th level right now, so she hasn't grabbed most of those THF feats yet. Her buff spell are Divine Might, Divine Power, and Divine Favor (I took the radiant aura so she's locked out of the warpriest Divine Power). She fights with an eSoS (the reason for the fighter dilly) and does some pretty nice damage with cleave/great cleave. At 20th level her healing smite is about 100-120 points (with a +90 devotion augment and whatever positive spellpower was in easy reach), which isn't awesome but for a freebie along with a smiting strike isn't bad. Between her smites and her aura she keeps herself and those near her healed through everything except spike damage. Cocoon and meta'd Heals work in those situations.

If I hadn't been ERing, I'd have probably splashed 2 fighter and then taken Rogue dilly for the sneak damage. Other than Mass Heal and True Resurrection, she doesn't touch her level 9 spells (yes, I still use Mass Heal).

I dumped her Wis, which was painful the first 2 or 3 days of running her. Before this she'd been a DC caster and raid healer, so all her gear was caster based. But I'm running one of my paladins in a fighter life as EllisDee's Kensai Warpriest so I had a pretty good feel for the warpriest tree and cleaving. I feel like she does less damage than a DC caster (in that most often as a DC caster she necro'd things which means they just keeled over dead), but she's more consistent and overall, kills faster. As a caster she had to level drain "everything" before her Destructions would hit, and while Sunbeam/Sunbolt are nice, they don't one-shot much other than shadows and other light-vulnerable creatures. As a warpriest, if it's vulnerable to slashing weapons , it's dead.

For her stats I went with 16/16/16 in Strength, Con, and Charisma. Then a 9 in Int with a +3 tome. I put all stat levelups into strength (con isn't a bad idea either) and then I put all enhancement/epic destiny points possible into Charisma. The idea being that since she runs with DM pretty much always on, the higher her Charisma, the higher her Strength.