Merge Servers

[Enoach]

When ever a post comes up about Server Merges I always ask myself a few questions

• What problem is the OP seeing? - 1) Lack of LFMs in total 2) Lack of LFMs for their current level range 3) Lack of LFMs for stuff they want to do 4) Lack of people hitting their LFMs
• What is their primary time of play? - 1) Is it prime time for their server (each has a different prime time) 2) Is it the deadest time on their server
• Would it be better for them on a different server?
• Are they limiting their observations based on their single server or have they reviewed the other servers populations at their primary play time to see if it is the same or different?
• Does there current level range have a healthy population in the WHO social panel? - If there are only a small amount of players on in their level range it will be more difficult to put together a group. I've had several occasions where I have found myself stuck in the middle of two leveling groups. It is common with XP stone uses to find the 10 - 16 Game sparsely populated.

Those that run Guild/Channel/Solo are usually unaffected by LFM population as they usually on venture out when it suites them. However, those that are more PuG minded do depend on the LFM system to either find or acquire groups.

I think before we actually take up a stance of requesting server merges we need to do diligence on the questions above. This will help the arguments for a merge by removing the "perception" that a merge is needed and replacing it with the facts that a merge is needed. While the Oracle does have merit only Turbine has the hard numbers on the population.

[Cathimon]

When ever a post comes up about Server Merges I always ask myself a few questions

• What problem is the OP seeing? - 1) Lack of LFMs in total 2) Lack of LFMs for their current level range 3) Lack of LFMs for stuff they want to do 4) Lack of people hitting their LFMs
• What is their primary time of play? - 1) Is it prime time for their server (each has a different prime time) 2) Is it the deadest time on their server
• Would it be better for them on a different server?
• Are they limiting their observations based on their single server or have they reviewed the other servers populations at their primary play time to see if it is the same or different?
• Does there current level range have a healthy population in the WHO social panel? - If there are only a small amount of players on in their level range it will be more difficult to put together a group. I've had several occasions where I have found myself stuck in the middle of two leveling groups. It is common with XP stone uses to find the 10 - 16 Game sparsely populated.

Those that run Guild/Channel/Solo are usually unaffected by LFM population as they usually on venture out when it suites them. However, those that are more PuG minded do depend on the LFM system to either find or acquire groups.

I think before we actually take up a stance of requesting server merges we need to do diligence on the questions above. This will help the arguments for a merge by removing the "perception" that a merge is needed and replacing it with the facts that a merge is needed. While the Oracle does have merit only Turbine has the hard numbers on the population.

Your approach to the issue would make sense if we had not been requesting server merges for ages already. We don't need a university study to figure out that there's a FLAGRANT lack of players on most servers. But I'm a good sport, I'll answer your questions.

The problem is that there's a lack of players overall. But it just gets 10 times worse whenever you want to play on certain level ranges or on certain content. I've been making my own LFMs 90% of the time I played over 2 years. I got folks joining when I'm advertising for Delera, Gianthold, IQ for exemple. But I often waited HOURS to have a single guy join and then leave after the first quest in stuff like Threnal, Sorrowdusk or Shavarath... It's not popular content, but the fact that there is so few players online makes it even harder. You see them on the Who's list, *** are your odds of forming a team for some quest when there are 5 people online only of adequate level? Uninterested, busy, afk, name it.

I played on all time zones, I am (was) an addict of DDO. And I played a lot. Naturally at times such as 3AM or 9AM EST on Tuesdays, good luck, people have lives and work. But at 7PM, you can't get a group, give me a break. Enough with the excuse, there's just not enough players. Who wants to hear the excuses about ''your content is unpopular'' or ''make your LFMs''... I do make my LFMs and if I want to do the unpopular content once in a while, surely somebody else does too. The problem is, that somebody is on some other server most likely.

It gets me worked up. Do these apologists even play the game? The servers are low population, Wayfinder is empty and Orien you ALWAYS see the same guys over and over because there's nobody else. If you got your static group composed of your wife, son, brother, best IRL friend, good for you man. But a lot of us likes to play with strangers, new folks, and we shouldn't have to solo in a MMO.

Get a grip man, we need server merges. Those who don't want it, sorry, we'll never make everybody happy, there are people who are never happy to begin with.

[Enoach]

Your approach to the issue would make sense if we had not been requesting server merges for ages already. We don't need a university study to figure out that there's a FLAGRANT lack of players on most servers. But I'm a good sport, I'll answer your questions.

The problem is that there's a lack of players overall. But it just gets 10 times worse whenever you want to play on certain level ranges or on certain content. I've been making my own LFMs 90% of the time I played over 2 years. I got folks joining when I'm advertising for Delera, Gianthold, IQ for exemple. But I often waited HOURS to have a single guy join and then leave after the first quest in stuff like Threnal, Sorrowdusk or Shavarath... It's not popular content, but the fact that there is so few players online makes it even harder. You see them on the Who's list, *** are your odds of forming a team for some quest when there are 5 people online only of adequate level? Uninterested, busy, afk, name it.

I played on all time zones, I am (was) an addict of DDO. And I played a lot. Naturally at times such as 3AM or 9AM EST on Tuesdays, good luck, people have lives and work. But at 7PM, you can't get a group, give me a break. Enough with the excuse, there's just not enough players. Who wants to hear the excuses about ''your content is unpopular'' or ''make your LFMs''... I do make my LFMs and if I want to do the unpopular content once in a while, surely somebody else does too. The problem is, that somebody is on some other server most likely.

It gets me worked up. Do these apologists even play the game? The servers are low population, Wayfinder is empty and Orien you ALWAYS see the same guys over and over because there's nobody else. If you got your static group composed of your wife, son, brother, best IRL friend, good for you man. But a lot of us likes to play with strangers, new folks, and we shouldn't have to solo in a MMO.

Get a grip man, we need server merges. Those who don't want it, sorry, we'll never make everybody happy, there are people who are never happy to begin with.

My approach makes sense because it takes the emotion out of the arguments and looks to the facts.

You mention Certain Character Level Ranges or certain quests. As I pointed out XP stones have contributed to levels 10 to 16 being low in population due to people using the XP Stones. The quantity of these people is unknown but is having an effect on quests being run in this level range

It is good that you mention that you play in all time zones, but I might also point out that you only mention your observations on Wayfinder and Orien, which are known low population servers, does not surprise me. But then the question is, for your play schedule would one of the other servers have a higher population be a better choice?

Don't get me wrong, with the age of the game, lack of advertisement I'm not naïve to think the population is not dwindling. But I'm not yet completely sold that merging servers is the solution, as I don't think it addresses the cause of the population decrease.

[Dilbon]

MMOs today use megaserver technology instead of separate servers. I guess it wouldn't be necessary for DDO to adapt such technology, but instead of a negative sounding server merge one could say all DDO servers are being united into one megaserver, even though it would be just a regular server. It would just sound like a positive thing.

[Cathimon]

The megaserver thing would be really awesome. But if impossible, server merge asap.

[moo_cow]

When ever a post comes up about Server Merges I always ask myself a few questions

• What problem is the OP seeing? - 1) Lack of LFMs in total 2) Lack of LFMs for their current level range 3) Lack of LFMs for stuff they want to do 4) Lack of people hitting their LFMs
• What is their primary time of play? - 1) Is it prime time for their server (each has a different prime time) 2) Is it the deadest time on their server
• Would it be better for them on a different server?
• Are they limiting their observations based on their single server or have they reviewed the other servers populations at their primary play time to see if it is the same or different?
• Does there current level range have a healthy population in the WHO social panel? - If there are only a small amount of players on in their level range it will be more difficult to put together a group. I've had several occasions where I have found myself stuck in the middle of two leveling groups. It is common with XP stone uses to find the 10 - 16 Game sparsely populated.

Those that run Guild/Channel/Solo are usually unaffected by LFM population as they usually on venture out when it suites them. However, those that are more PuG minded do depend on the LFM system to either find or acquire groups.

I think before we actually take up a stance of requesting server merges we need to do diligence on the questions above. This will help the arguments for a merge by removing the "perception" that a merge is needed and replacing it with the facts that a merge is needed. While the Oracle does have merit only Turbine has the hard numbers on the population.

I can easily tell you that the OP is in 4 of the most populated chat channels on the server and in a very high end guild. They also play on prime times. The population is just simply not enough.

[Missing_Minds]

I can easily tell you that the OP is in 4 of the most populated chat channels on the server and in a very high end guild. They also play on prime times. The population is just simply not enough.

Out of curiosity as last I knew there was no way to tell just how many people were in a channel (baring leaving and rejoining the channel) let alone how often people watch channels.
Do all of these people on those channels actively watch and respond? I apologize for how snide the question sounds, but most players may watch but not respond, making channel count an unreliable metric.

[redspecter23]

The megaserver thing would be really awesome. But if impossible, server merge asap.

What the poster above you is trying to say is that IF Turbine merged all the servers, they could simply tell people they were "applying advanced megaserver tech" and it would sound awesome while basically just being a server merge. A large percentage of the ignorant masses would eat it up like it's the next big thing while a small percentage would suspect that it's really just a server merge while being mocked and called conspiracy theorists by those that gobble up the clever wordplay.

[Cathimon]

Irrelevant? In what way is it irrelevant? With the way it is now I can create, for example, 20 characters out of 30 slots. Then if/when they merge I still have my 20 characters but with only 15 slots. If I want to create any more characters on the newly merged server I have to delete 6 of my current characters to do so. So I'll ask you again, how is this in any way, shape, or form irrelevant? I don't think that word means what you think it means...

It's irrelevant because it affects you, some dude with a moustache in San Diego and the guy who works in a drugstore in Paris who also plays DDO once every 2 weeks. It's 1 player out of every 300 who can't enjoy this game without having to create 4929354 characters. Low population in a MMO affects almost everybody, save for those who solo( w t f?) and the guys who play with their IRL buds/guild or whatever.

Delete your 6 character, I don't care. Or maybe Turbine can give you some extra character space, I don't care. It's really is a sorry excuse for not merging servers. Yes, I know what irrelevant means.

[MalkavianX]

It's irrelevant because it affect you, some dude with a moustache in San Diego and the guy who works in a drugstore in Paris who also plays DDO once every 2 weeks. It's 1 player out of every 300 who can't enjoy this game without having to create 4929354 characters. Low population in a MMO affects almost everybody, save for those who solo( w t f?) and the guys who play with their IRL buds/guild or whatever.

Delete your 6 character, I don't care. Or maybe Turbine can give you some extra character space, I don't care. It's really is a sorry excuse for not merging servers. Yes, I know what irrelevant means.

One in three hundred. Sorry to tell you, but that number can't possibly be even close. All I was trying to say is, I've already paid for my extra character slots. If the servers get merged, I lose something I paid for. Just as an example, would you care if they said when they merged servers that you'd lose, say, your shared bank? Or anything else you paid real life money for? Now I'm not from San Diego or Paris, but I don't know anyone that likes to lose things they pay for.

I'd be all for a server merge if I didn't lose anything. And just because you might be one of the "one in three hundred" that wouldn't mind losing their paid for content, that doesn't mean others won't be upset by it.

[Cathimon]

How common you think it is for players to have dozens of characters on every servers? I wouldn't be surprised if it was 1 for every 300 or something. All my friends play on 1 server, and most of them got 1 character + banks. Some got 2 characters, or even 3 characters. We'll never know the stats, but I don't buy it, that there's that many folks in your situation.

None the less. As I said because, we can't make everybody happy.

You, and the guy with a moustache in San Diego, the guy who works at the drugstore in Paris will be upset/unhappy. But many more folks will be extremely happy that there's people to play with once more. I'm not whining that I might lose my ''precious'' character name with a merge. Because it's so insignificant I'd have to be a whiny XX to complain.

These are irrelevant excuses. MMOs are not meanth to be played alone, lack of population is far greater in importance than whoever gets their character name or whoever gets to keep his 20 slots on each servers when they propably don't even play these characters.

[MalkavianX]

How common you think it is for players to have dozens of characters on every servers? I wouldn't be surprised if it was 1 for every 300 or something. All my friends play on 1 server, and most of them got 1 character + banks. Some got 2 characters, or even 3 characters. We'll never know the stats, but I don't buy it, that there's that many folks in your situation.

None the less. As I said because, we can't make everybody happy.

You, and the guy with a moustache in San Diego, the guy who works at the drugstore in Paris will be upset/unhappy. But many more folks will be extremely happy that there's people to play with once more. I'm not whining that I might lose my ''precious'' character name with a merge. Because it's so insignificant I'd have to be a whiny XX to complain.

These are irrelevant excuses. MMOs are not meanth to be played alone, lack of population is far greater in importance than whoever gets their character name or whoever gets to keep his 20 slots on each servers when they propably don't even play these characters.

So to be clear, people you know ony play a few characters. I never said everyone would be happy. Also I mentioned character slots not names. I could care less about my characters names, I've never had a problem choosing names. I'm sorry if you think that losing something you paid for is fine. Because if it does work like that, and I never said it was an absolute, then it is my opinion that many more than 1 in 300 will be upset. Therefore, as irrelevant as it may be to you, it is relevant to many others. Also, that's twice you've mentioned soloing, I don't solo, I enjoy grouping. I also play my characters on various servers quite regularly. I don't play each character for hours/days/weeks at a time. I know people who do the same thing. Big deal.

My only point remains the same, if I pay for something, I expect to not lose it. That's all. What difference does it make how I play the game? Name me even one person that is okay with paying for something and then having the person that sold it to them take it back with no refund.

[Cathimon]

So to be clear, people you know ony play a few characters. I never said everyone would be happy. Also I mentioned character slots not names. I could care less about my characters names, I've never had a problem choosing names. I'm sorry if you think that losing something you paid for is fine. Because if it does work like that, and I never said it was an absolute, then it is my opinion that many more than 1 in 300 will be upset. Therefore, as irrelevant as it may be to you, it is relevant to many others. Also, that's twice you've mentioned soloing, I don't solo, I enjoy grouping. I also play my characters on various servers quite regularly. I don't play each character for hours/days/weeks at a time. I know people who do the same thing. Big deal.

My only point remains the same, if I pay for something, I expect to not lose it. That's all. What difference does it make how I play the game? Name me even one person that is okay with paying for something and then having the person that sold it to them take it back with no refund.

Yes, that's right. I know a lot of people and I know altoholics too. They don't go as far as you. They have dozens of alts on the same servers, not on every other servers as well. I think that people like you are an incredibly small minority. Now the reason I've mentioned the issue of character names is because there are other folks whos main complaint, unlike you and your character slots complaint, is the issue of losing their precious character name(s). I place the both of you in the same category of irrelevant, never happy, always find a reason to complain folk, people who make good stuff not happen basically.

It sucks you lose your 25th and 26th character unless you buy character slot. It sucks, do you hear me? It sucks. It sucks Joschmoe lose his character name and has to rename. It sucks. But those are tiny sacrifices for the greater good. DO YOU hear me? When/if DDO gets shut down, you'll lose more than character slots.

[Yokido]

The level gap is what is killing this game, not just the fact that there are less players, now there is less players and more dividing them, you cannot expect to continue pumping out new content without balancing the game to work forever.. Power creep can kill any healthy game, especially since we're at the point where casual players aren't getting the loot made from LAST update when the NEW update is coming out.

There needs to be a mechanism for level 20s and level 28s to gain experience together.
Maybe make it so when you're making an LFM you can decide the highest level of loot allowed, and that level of equippable loot limit would scale experience for levels 20-28.

"It would work as such: Loot beyond X level will not work, whether it is equipped or not in this quest."

Since not much else changes from being level 20 to 28 than some hp, and a couple of feats/save bonuses, if you factor out gear you can even the odds quite well.

[Talonaise]

When ever a post comes up about Server Merges I always ask myself a few questions

• What problem is the OP seeing? - 1) Lack of LFMs in total 2) Lack of LFMs for their current level range 3) Lack of LFMs for stuff they want to do 4) Lack of people hitting their LFMs
• What is their primary time of play? - 1) Is it prime time for their server (each has a different prime time) 2) Is it the deadest time on their server
• Would it be better for them on a different server?
• Are they limiting their observations based on their single server or have they reviewed the other servers populations at their primary play time to see if it is the same or different?
• Does there current level range have a healthy population in the WHO social panel? - If there are only a small amount of players on in their level range it will be more difficult to put together a group. I've had several occasions where I have found myself stuck in the middle of two leveling groups. It is common with XP stone uses to find the 10 - 16 Game sparsely populated.

Those that run Guild/Channel/Solo are usually unaffected by LFM population as they usually on venture out when it suites them. However, those that are more PuG minded do depend on the LFM system to either find or acquire groups.

I think before we actually take up a stance of requesting server merges we need to do diligence on the questions above. This will help the arguments for a merge by removing the "perception" that a merge is needed and replacing it with the facts that a merge is needed. While the Oracle does have merit only Turbine has the hard numbers on the population.

Ok, I will answer the questions, however I don't think it changes the fact that the server population is low.

1. - There are a lack of LFMs ... period. I just looked, there were 12. And it looked about as it always does. 2) That would include my current level range(s) - I have multiple toons at multiple levels but I am looking at the entire picture, not just what affects me. 3) It is always the same stuff but I don't care - just give me xp. 4) When I do throw up LFMs I usually can get a few to bite. But a full party -- rarity. (Full disclosure - I channel far more than I LFM, but even channels are wastelands these days.)

2 -- Depends on what time of year you ask, but prime time (East Coast early evening - to late, Weekends - all times) - Argo is dead overnight so this is really its prime time. I have also played a lot in the day especially in the summer. I am not a casual gamer. I have put more hours into this game over the last near decade than I care to admit and am well aware of the highs and lows of the server population.

3 -- No it would not be better for me on another server. As I alluded to above, I have played this game since just after Beta and I have a large number of friends, and I do like playing with them. I do not want to walk away and start over. I have also seen far too many friends leave in the last 6-12 months because "Nothing is going on". I just want to have full groups with lots of options. I Also think a healthy server population keeps people in the game.

4 -- I have a couple of toons on other servers but I do not play them. I will not speak to that. Maybe not every server needs to merge. But judging from the responses in this thread, I do not think Argo is the only dead zone.

5 - Yes. As stated above -- primarily end game/epic TR at this time. Yes i know how to use the who panel to see how many are on, and YES it has changed a great deal in the last 12 months. The numbers just are not there anymore.

I am someone who sits around staring at the LFM looking for something to do and crying because it isn't there. I run stuff, with friends, in channel. Sometimes I pug, sometimes I form pugs. But even when not in a pug I do look at the social panels. We shortman most of the time now. Which is fine - we can do the content. But this is an MMO which should be about playing with others and we used to run full groups.


I want to make this clear - I want a server merge because 1) I think it is good for the long term health of the game to keep people playing. 2) This game does not advertise, so the only way to get an infusion of new people is to merge servers. Shake things up a bit, meet new people and get new friends and enemies And that is coming from me, a person that most of my friends will quickly tell you does not do well when meeting new people -- shut it cetus. (A Preemptive "shut it" cuz I know you are thinking it.)

[Shmuel]

I would just like to say again how much I agree with the OP, and I really would love some confirmation that Turbine is considering this and some idea what their opinion is on the matter.

[Ykt]

There is so little PR that no one outside of the game would even notice the servers get merged.

In my country the main videogames website lists DDO as a 10/20 because:
- there is no Artificer, Monk or Druid class, only 9 classes
- not many races to choose from, only 5
- not a lot of quests
- max level is only 10
Yes, they tested the game back in 2006 and didn't bother to test again because it seems as if the game doesn't exist anymore.

No wonder there aren't many new players.

[stoerm]

Thanks, I'm collecting these.

I'd like a merge myself, just to stir and freshen things up. It would be fun to play with people from other servers. As long as I'd get a free name change token for every name change, though.

[stoerm]

No wonder there aren't many new players.

Old things rarely get reviews. That's a big reason for releasing "expansions".

[Captain_Wizbang]

1. Turbine does not have server hardware of their own. It is rented. Aka they are bound by contracts.
2. Merging servers costs Turbine monies because they they have to merge databases of characters
3. Merging also means players are going to LOSE their names. This does and will cause loss of players.

There is a LOT more than just going "merge the servers" to make it happen AND make it cost effective to do so.

When it is economical to do so, expect them to do so and not before.

MM, good post. And I approve his message.