End of the Week with Produktion Malphunktion- Spring cleaning edition

[Sebastrd]

It doesnt have to be uber. Draconic Soul Gem is a fine example. It rewards people for running tough quests but yet it is by no means a "requirement", a "must have", an "overpowered item".

Fair enough. I think a line of "convenience" items that drop only in EE would probably be a nice solution.

[Sebastrd]

strawman

How so?

[Ivan_Milic]

Bull, it existed about a year before MOTU. It just became more pronounced in U13.

Thats why I typed or when it came because it has been a long time.

[Ivan_Milic]

qft

west coast Canada never a problem no ssd

after reading some of these posts I know why anyone from turbine that comes on to the forums to "communicate " soon stops posting

Because devs have no idea what is going on with the game.
How can you claim you never saw posts on forum about double login when 4th most viewed thread is about fixing double login problem?

[digitaljc]

"...The rest of the year is about fixing the core game. Enhancements. Combat. Loot...There is new stuff too, but it all aligned with those 3 things..."

Hallelujah!

[Ivan_Milic]

Hallelujah!

Lol, do you really believe him?
Remember when producer fernando, rowan, what ever was his name posted a letter that we will get bug fixes in 2013 or 2012.

[Ebondevil]

Lol, do you really believe him?
Remember when producer fernando, rowan, what ever was his name posted a letter that we will get bug fixes in 2013 or 2012.

We got Bug fixes, I mean they took the Halfling Thrower line off the known issues list, as well as the double log issue, right? right?

[Produktion_Malphunktion]

You just described me - which is pleasing and worrying at the same time given how odd I appear to be...

Nice insight into who you are though - I'm curious as to how much of an uphill battle your minions have when it comes to convincing you of a course of action which does not gel with your own preferred playstyle?

Don't get me wrong - I actually have every confidence that you are open to being convinced of alternative views having seen how you engage with us, but I'm just interested to know more about the process. Do they have to sit you down from time to time and say 'look boss, you're just wrong about this, I promise you no-one cares if that secret room is thematically supposed to be there, the **** dungeon needs another shrine and it doesn't need another puzzle to get into it, ok?', or do they have to write a formal business case, or what?

Nah, I know I'm an outlier. I'm totally used to it.

Now, when I get my own game from scratch....

[Ivan_Milic]

We got Bug fixes, I mean they took the Halfling Thrower line off the known issues list, as well as the double log issue, right? right?

Lol.

[Ovrad]

Now, when I get my own game from scratch....

DDO 2 confirmed?

Just kidding...

[Qhualor]

Other players like to feel like special snowflakes and want a clear line drawn between themselves and the unwashed casual masses. To them, the best loot should be reserved only for the elite few so they can feel special. I do have a problem with that.

this is what i was referring to.

[brian14]

Kenders...not sure I can run a world with Kenders.

I can... as long as I get to run them over.

[Dawnsblood]

this is what i was referring to.

I can see where the OP was painting with a broad brush. That doesn't seem to be the majority opinion amongst the EE folk. That said, It does seem to be a strong minority opinion. Loot threads hardly ever pass without a few folks like that posting. So it isn't exactly a 'scarecrow'. I don't have a problem with those folks personally. I understand the idea that the top 10% or so of the pop should have something that differentiates their skill from other folk. Most games do that with raiding tiers for example. I like the idea of EE only stuff being of the non-DPS variety though (as mentioned above).

[IronClan]

If it exists in the game, players will want it. They will feel that they haven't "completed" the game until they have it. The bottom line is that to fully enjoy the game, some folks have to have everything. I see nothing wrong with that, and I'm fine with people being able to acquire all loot without ever stepping into EE (though I'm also fine with them having to spend a lot longer getting their loot).

Other players like to feel like special snowflakes and want a clear line drawn between themselves and the unwashed casual masses. To them, the best loot should be reserved only for the elite few so they can feel special. I do have a problem with that.

And both of those are totally wrong and harmful to the game and harmful to the majority of players whether they realize it or not.

Here's whats right:

The game designers have a responsibility to design the game so that there's a REASON TO DO THINGS incentives, and rewards for taking on challenges. CARROTS AND STICKS. Rewards and punishments. The player base is best off (long term) if they have the ability to do these things, even if they don't realize it (and they usually don't; see the elation about Raiders reward boxes and the complete destruction of an end game raid as an example of the player base not understanding what was actually good for them).

Games are choices, nothing more, twitchy choices, puzzly choices... they are all about choices... "I can run this on EH three times faster with 100% chance of success and get the same reward, at a 5% drop chance instead of EE three times slower and with uncertain success with a 10% drop chance" is not a tough choice.

These people who feel entitled to the same reward for casual mode as someone else gets for taking 10 times longer and risking actual failure; because they're special and they got a blue ribbon even when they came in last place in school are worsening the game for everyone and should be ignored with a pat on the head and told "well of course you want the same reward for less time and less risk of failure, I'm sure you want the bosses paycheck for being a clerk too... good luck with that".

[Drevok]

Because I never see it. Because this is not a complaint that has reached my ears from the forums, or customer service in a while.

I haven't seen any improvements regarding the login issue based on the following test, nor was anything mentioned in release notes.

I just tried it again on my notebook PC. Full patched (windows and ddo). From cold boot. No other programs. Exact copy from USB to hard drive. Hard drive freshly defragmented.
The notebook hard drive is not too speedy (sequential: 50 read, 48 write). The USB 2 flash key is substantially slower (sequential: 21 read, 10 write).
Plenty of RAM. Dual core with no other cpu load. Decent wireless.
From login to character selection screen. Quite similar times (HD: 1:20, USB: 1:15)
Select character to view character in House K. (HD: 4:05, USB: 1:55). USB was fine (no alert, character active). Hard disk was red alert (could not move character), disconnected about 1 minute later. Note the loading bar went from about 0% to about 50% at 3 minutes for HD and at 1 minute for USB, so that appears where the big difference is.

Anyway, this is the same behavior I've saw a year ago.

p.s. thanks for the communication!
p.p.s Any hints on plans for 2015?

[IronClan]

If you play at level, on Epic Hard they drop as they are supposed to. this has been discussed numerous times.

Malph were you around for the "leveling sigil" days? This CoV issue is exactly like leveling sigils, they are road blocking players and those players are filing out the door, along with others who are leaving for various reasons (including the fact that their friends are leaving <-- **** vicious cycles are hard) because they're stuck unable to progress their characters just like leveling sigils did.

I made my first epic heart a month back this required taking heart seeds from my 3 most recent characters: a 28, another 28 and a 25 ALL but the 25 was leveled to cap from 20 after Cov's came out, and the 25 was parked a couple months after that update (had about 400 CoV's from minor questing). I was totally shocked that I only have enough Cov's to make 46 seeds. All three toons have EE completions, and one of them is nearing 20 deathwryms and 15 fire peaks...

Dev Theory metric's are not being met by "normal gameplay metrics" this is one of many factors that is patting asses right out the door. I wont call it the biggest... but it's not helping RETAIN anyone that's for sure.

[Oxarhamar]

Some guildies and I were discussing this kind of thing yesterday. One of them suggested making the EN or EH version of loot BtC, while making the EE version unbound.

This is a aweful idea all BTA & BTC loot that drops and can't be used is vender trash.

The game has moved away from this mechanic for most loot from normal questing lets not go backwards. road loot is fine BTC.

[IronClan]

Because I never see it. Because this is not a complaint that has reached my ears from the forums, or customer service in a while.

BTW I'd like to say I am impressed, nothing to do with double login issue, but that you're actually HAVING A DIALOG with us.

The PC doesn't even get dialog like this... you know back and forth. I hope you have the flame retardant underwear (you do based on your many appearences on that other place) and clout with "the people who fire Devs because they were too candid with the forum" to survive this Mr.Mal... I totally hope you do. If not I hope you work on future D&D games... I'd love a modern NWN's that gets all the things right which that game got right (and NWO is a pale imitation in name only). What DDO could have been...

[Ivan_Milic]

Malph were you around for the "leveling sigil" days? This CoV issue is exactly like leveling sigils, they are road blocking players and those players are filing out the door, along with others who are leaving for various reasons (including the fact that their friends are leaving <-- **** vicious cycles are hard) because they're stuck unable to progress their characters just like leveling sigils did.

I made my first epic heart a month back this required taking heart seeds from my 3 most recent characters: a 28, another 28 and a 25 ALL but the 25 was leveled to cap from 20 after Cov's came out, and the 25 was parked a couple months after that update (had about 400 CoV's from minor questing). I was totally shocked that I only have enough Cov's to make 46 seeds. All three toons have EE completions, and one of them is nearing 20 deathwryms and 15 fire peaks...

Dev Theory metric's are not being met by "normal gameplay metrics" this is one of many factors that is patting asses right out the door. I wont call it the biggest... but it's not helping RETAIN anyone that's for sure.

You people want everything for free?
Its nothing like leveling sigil.
If you want to etr you have to work a bit for it, its just like epic tokens before motu and challenges.
From 20-28 I get 5-6k covs playing just ee.

[slarden]

The point is: it's actually the reverse. Trying to farm loot on EE that is the same as EN takes MUCH LONGER and it is MUCH HARDER than EN or even EH.

.

I don't agree with that for 95% of EE content considering the significantly better drop rates vs. the marginal extra time involved. What you say is true at the moment for the 2 new raids only and nothing else. Those raids are difficult on EE, but like other raids will get easier over time. A 3 person EE FOT takes a few minutes longer than a 12 person EH FOT with the right group. That wasn't the case the first few months of FOT excluding the completions that used the ledge exploit (hey almost everyone that joined an EE FOT back in the day was guilty of that).

Honestly I haven't seen the new EE raids without massive amount of tornado pots being used yet and I don't think a group should get special loot for using 1000+ tornado pots. when the supply of those are non-sensical

We are in agreement more than you think. I think something extra should be given for EE and I think it shouldn't be a dps booster - it should be rare enough that people keep re-running. Not as bad as shard of ring of spell storing, but not nearly as easy as the base items in recent quests.

Let's face it, the devs have an impossible task of pleasing everyone. Balance is impossible, but there are many casual players in my guild and I used to be a much more casual player than I am today running mostly on normal and even casual back in the day before I even ran an epic. If loot is too out of reach for someone, it will decrease their likelihood to keep playing. Prior to U14 casual players could get some good gear quick with festivals, shroud, TOD and easier epics like house P and house D. The difference in player power between power gamers and casual players is much greater today than it used to be. I don't think we need tiered loot making that gap even greater.