Forester's Brush Hook + Ninja Spy Capstone

[Saekee]

The Forester's Brush Hook is 19-20/x3 (all versions, from level 15 to level 24, according to Wiki). It bypasses all DR save pierce/bludgeoning.
What effect does the Ninja Spy capstone have on this along with IC: Slashing?

Ninja Master: You gain +2 Dexterity. While you are centered, you gain a +1 Competence bonus to the Critical Threat Range with Short Swords and a +2 Competence bonus to the Critical Threat Range with Kamas and Shuriken. Any piercing or slashing weapon you wield gains the Vorpal ability. (Known Issue as of Update 20 Patch 1: Shuriken are not receiving the competence bonus, however, the Vorpal effect does work normally.)

Would the Forester have: 13-20/x3? (plus Vorpal)? or 14-20/3? 15-20/3?

The crit range and modifier of the Kama for the ninja capstone was made in mind for your classic kama of 20/x2, which would result in 15-20/x2 (+ vorpal) with the capstone and IC/Slashing.

[Cardtrick]

I don't have a pure monk to try this on, but it should work the same way as something like staff specialization combined with an increased threat range weapon like Sireth. If it does, then the additional crit rane is added before applying the improved critical multiplier, so I would expect a profile of 13-20x3.

[Saekee]

I don't have a pure monk to try this on, but it should work the same way as something like staff specialization combined with an increased threat range weapon like Sireth. If it does, then the additional crit rane is added before applying the improved critical multiplier, so I would expect a profile of 13-20x3.

thanks--that is what I was thinking also--makes for some interesting build possibilities, considering that the Forrester's Brush Hook is BTA on Acquire--they are on the AH often (at least on Cannith, heroic versions).

edit: One could conceivably have a pure monk with the tier 5 in henshin but the Ninja capstone (there wouldn't be much left over AP-wise). Since the ninja capstone affects piercing and slashing weapons, and the Tier 5 would expand Sireth's threat range, the combination should make it 13-20x3 plus vorpal. This would still make it come out less than multiclassed staff builds

[TeacherSyn]

I happen to have my solo ninja that dual-wields these weapons. I'll look at her numbers and confirm what you've found.

[Saekee]

I happen to have my solo ninja that dual-wields these weapons. I'll look at her numbers and confirm what you've found.

thx--glad to see that the Dojo is back online with the computer back from the shop!

[TeacherSyn]

I happen to have my solo ninja that dual-wields these weapons. I'll look at her numbers and confirm what you've found.

UPDATE: Answer: I see the range as 17-20 x3, Bonus +40 on both hands. Slash damage along with Good and all metallic bypasses.

Oh, I resolved the closed dojo with a new computer. An iMac with a 21-in screen is glorious.

[Saekee]

UPDATE: Answer: I see the range as 17-20 x3, Bonus +40 on both hands. Slash damage along with Good and all metallic bypasses.

Oh, I resolved the closed dojo with a new computer. An iMac with a 21-in screen is glorious.

do you have IC: Slashing?

[TeacherSyn]

do you have IC: Slashing?

That's what I missed in all that. I may switch out a feat just to see how that would play out.

[Saekee]

That's what I missed in all that. I may switch out a feat just to see how that would play out.

Thx. Yes, it is typical to go IC: Bludgeon and maybe IC: Piercing for short swords, since there are so many short swords in the game. Yet one of the main justifications for weaponizing a monk is critical threat range and poisoning (as per your guide!). This one weapon changes all that--though a build should not be designed around one weapon.

This warrants further thought and consequences, i.e. Poisoning would activate rapid stacks; if not in poison stance, the Lighting the Candle would proc the force damage heavily to make it worth the AP (3d6 on crit for single-handed weapons, the fire damage is usually blocked in higher levels); perhaps Elegant Crane for increased Ki on criticals, etc. etc. Inducing helplessness would fall on Water-dark-water finisher since stunning fist cannot be used with them; perhaps also armor piercing and fortification debuffs (like Dark-Dark-Dark) are equally warranted for such weapons (offhand bypass weapons like envenomed blades, Rebellion etc.) to aid in producing crits on high fort mobs, etc.

thoughts?

[TeacherSyn]

Not able to complete the feat at the moment...

I can confirm that the shortsword's crit range with IC:Piercing is 15-20 using Stars of Day. I think you're on to something with the Hooks.

[Saekee]

Not able to complete the feat at the moment...

I can confirm that the shortsword's crit range with IC:Piercing is 15-20 using Stars of Day. I think you're on to something with the Hooks.

thanks for checking into this. yes, that is the expected boost: 15-20x2 with Short swords, or Kamas, even Thunder Forged. The Forrester Brush hook is an anamoly, like Sireth's crit range. I assume other short swords with expanded threats matching rapiers (Razorend, Treason, Cutthroat's Smallblade, Rebellion) would get a nice crit range boost (18-20 would become 17-20, plus IC: Pierce would make them 13-20) but they always remain x2 for their multipliers. (Of course, they have some nice extra effects. . .)

The Forrester's Brush Hook trumps them all for crit range and multiplier. Rebellion would make a nice offhand weapon if one had IC: Piercing also (unlikely--I think a good build would have IC: Bludgeon for wraps when the Forresters are put away) since it would add Improved Deception and armor piercing to both weapons. Another option is the Epic Midnight Greetings for the offhand, since it is IC: Slashing and Monks can use it. It would also add Improved Deception and some nice touches like paralyzing and disintegration, but would sit at 15-20/2.

For heroics, Razorend is useful since it already has keen.

[Saekee]

Got to level 20 and now checked

[unbongwah]

Nice: can you also test to see if Celestial Champion (DC) stacks with it?

[Saekee]

Hi unbongwah, I do not have that destiny open yet. . .will be a long while (my gimp just turned level 20 again), so maybe someone else can post their results here; I will probably do another heroic TR sometime soon before then and build towards it. However, Fuzzyduck81 in the comments on Spencerian's Monk site said that it made his Sireth have a crit profile of 11-20, so I imagine that it would. Here is what he wrote:

I think my personal preference would be (once enough fate points accumulated) to run in Divine Crusader then have energy burst twisted from draconic.. wouldn’t necessarily have quite the same single-kaboom kick as draconic, but consecration is a nice AoE thing that does fire & good damage (boosted by fire spellpower & crit chance) plus healing & a dps boost.. you’d also have the aura that does bane damage & since presumably as a henshin you’re using a staff, you can get the enhancement for extended crit range – that thing will apply before improved criticals & stack with staff mastery, Sireth is displaying 11-20 for me Add in a very powerful cleave attack & you’ve got a powerful, well-rounded destiny – it’s probably my favourite for melee guys now, even over dreadnaught.

So it looks like the Divine Crusader will affect the original crit range, which then is boosted by 2 by the capstone; then the whole thing gets doubled with IC: Slashing. This would work with Short Swords (and apparently shurikens if/when fixed) but they do not get the x3 modifier.

[TeacherSyn]

Got to level 20 and now checked

Sweet. I may add IC: Slashing to my soloing ninja just to see how nice that feels. Great discovery.

[Saekee]

It works so well that it may be better to go with Lighting the Candle instead of the poison, assuming one can keep up the ki.
Lighting the candle will result in over 1/3 of the attacks generating the extra force damage over and above the fire. It adds up. On bosses the poison though is better, and certainly on builds that run in anything other than fire stance. My build right now is a dex build and I usually am in air stance.

The other challenge is getting the hooks. It is named the Forester's Brush Hook and the lore description claims that it is used in the forest. Yet it has NOTHING to do with plant bane. A true forester hook should be Flaming Burst, incineration, and Greater Plant Bane (or Animal Bane). The quest Overgrowth, where it drops, requires a ridiculously short amount of time to take out mobs of moving vegetables in three different situations in order to make the optional chest drop. A caster can do it, maybe also the Epic Destiny moment of Flowers could knock them all out.

The other way is that it appears as an end reward by the whole chain giver. I will test to see if this is the case also if you do the chain on elite, i.e. do you get offered the Epic Normal version of the weapon in such a case. These are the ones that are often seen in the AH.

At level 22 i am using a level 15 weapon. I feel ridiculous, but it still does a lot of damage.

[unbongwah]

The other way is that it appears as an end reward by the whole chain giver. I will test to see if this is the case also if you do the chain on elite, i.e. do you get offered the Epic Normal version of the weapon in such a case.

Druid's Deep end rewards are always the heroic versions, unfortunately; has to do with Turbine not properly implementing separate heroic & epic chains for DD.

[Mercureal]

Even worse, they're always the Heroic Normal version, no matter what difficulty you run it on.

I made a bit of an effort to farm the brushhook, solo, using EiN without any luck. First, it was hard to charge it up three separate times as there weren't huge numbers of enemies between rooms to keep up ki levels. Second, I seem to recall that the rooms would have a second wave of plants, so after using EiN you'd have another spread out group to kill.

I'm not 100% certain on the second issue there, maybe only 65% - it's possible that I was just messing up with the epic moment.

[Saekee]

Druid's Deep end rewards are always the heroic versions, unfortunately; has to do with Turbine not properly implementing separate heroic & epic chains for DD.

Even worse, they're always the Heroic Normal version, no matter what difficulty you run it on.

I made a bit of an effort to farm the brushhook, solo, using EiN without any luck. First, it was hard to charge it up three separate times as there weren't huge numbers of enemies between rooms to keep up ki levels. Second, I seem to recall that the rooms would have a second wave of plants, so after using EiN you'd have another spread out group to kill.

I'm not 100% certain on the second issue there, maybe only 65% - it's possible that I was just messing up with the epic moment.

thanks to both of you for this information. It looks like something that will be very difficult to solo unless someone has massive AOE damage, like a caster.

[Mercureal]

thanks to both of you for this information. It looks like something that will be very difficult to solo unless someone has massive AOE damage, like a caster.

Happy to share my experience. If you have an interest in farming it, I'd still suggest trying at least one run-through to test it yourself. I'm not the most precise or efficient player, so it's possible that you'd have more success clearing the rooms than I did.