Swashbuckler Update & Single Weapon Fighting Feats

[viktorserak]

I did a little math and...

Those single weapon fighting feats are REALLY underwhelming.

I mean... untill you hit later epic and endgame, there are far behind TWF and THF (yet, they require 3 feats as well), and when you hit thunderforged, then its actually even WORSE. Much dmg on Thunderforged comes from procs and "on attack" dmg - which kicks TWF far ahead of SWF and THF is, ofc, ahead against masses, as it should be.

Right now, it looks like 3 feats that were made exclusively for feat starved bards. And quite sadly, it seems that you can either feat starve yourself to death and be a much less effective fighter with some bard mojo and evasion (mind: MUCH LESS EFFECTIVE) and without tactics, or you will have to splash said fighter for feats and loose evasion. Or splash fighter and rogue and loose last two cores.

I mean.. the swashbuckler tree starts to look promising and fun, but it is in fact a big trap, because you simply cant make an effective meele bard with only 7 feats.

Not unless you gimp everything else you could do.

And for nonbards, that SWF is just awfull.

SWF in this form should be autogranted for everyone and activates on its own everytime you will hold just one weapon in your hand and nothing in the other. The current version is THAT weak.

[maddmatt70]

It is not worth picking up the single weapon feats at all especially for a character like a bard that has very little available feats. Really not enough dps in this enhancement tree, the bard class, and the single weapon feats. It is hard to get that point across to the devs. This is a flavor enhancement for casual players and nothing more.

[Mryal]

Well, obviously the feats are underwhelming.Not only because their bonus is horrible compared to the other fighting feats, but also because they only provide a benefit for Swashbuckling bard Pre.
For starters add a 10%/20%/30% attack speed bonus, and +50/75/100% damage to weapon effects (such as flaming, holy).

Now the good part : the pre is looking way better now! sadly evasion is still on 20.But the massive reflex bonuses make up for it.Staying pure is prob not a bad idea now.One thing thought is remove the SP costs from ALL abilities, other melee classes have melee special attacks for free.Another thing is where is the parry/counterattack mechanic.Youre a swashbuckler!
And consider adding at least one of the SHF feats autogranted for bards.Bards are supposed to be versatile and having to spend 3 feats there in addition of the other melee feats and also now precision to benefit from tier 5's severely damages the other aspects of the class.TBH bard should grant all 3 feats over leveling, like ranger does for TWF.

[brian14]

Every style of fighting should have purpose. I hardly see any in single weapon fighting. Let me break down the purpose of the styles of melee combat in DDO:

• What is the purpose of Two-Weapon Fighting? To deal lots of damage against a single target by multiple attacks.
• What is the purpose of Two-Handed Fighting? To deal blows that each deal heavy damage, and to do a bit of 'crowd control' by being able to attack multiple targets with glancing blows.
• What is the purpose of unarmed combat? When you are disarmed, or primarily if you are a monk who specializes in unarmed combat.
• What is the purpose of sword and board fighting? To provide valuable protection at the cost of some DPS. Currently, the DPS cost is a bit too high for what's offered.

What do I see in single-weapon fighting?

My immediate thought when I read Vargouille's OP was: "This single-weapon fighting feat is great for Artificers. Pretty much useless for everyone else, including Bards."

As it stands now, single-weapon fighting allows the use of rune arm, which is how Artificers melee already -- and a rune arm can seriously boost a weapon. That's about its entire usefulness.

Question for Vargouille:

Some of Swashbuckling abilities are described to function only "while Swashbuckling". Does it mean that others work when not in Swashbuckling stance? In particular, does Different Tack work when not in the stance? The description says "You get <X> to Damage with weapon attacks Single Weapon Fighting", so presumably no shield. Can one use Different Tack and/or SWF while wearing medium or heavy armor?

[nibel]

Hi! We're presenting some updates for Swashbuckler, and our current ideas for Single-Weapon Fighting Feats.

Thanks for the continuing feedback. Let's go to the second part.

Single Weapon Fighting
While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides.

Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance

Improved Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides.

Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6

Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides.

Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11

Since those feats will be competing directly whit THF and TWF (and no one other than a fighter or ranger can realistically get SWF/THF for dwarven axes and bastard swords), we will make a direct paralel between them, using: Rapiers (SWF/TWF) and Falchions (THF). All have a 18-20/x2 crit profile, so we can focus only in the other parts of the feats.

No feats

• SWF have 4 attacker per chain. Nothing extra
• TWF have 4 attacks per chain. Each attack have 20% of procing an off-hand attack.
• THF have 4 attacks per chain. Two attacks (1st and 4th) have glancing blows that deal 20% of base damage to everyone around you.

SWF is strictly inferior to both. Even without a feat, you want something on your off-hand. Be either a shield for extra defense, or an off-hand weapon for extra wielding bonus (deception, seeker, parry...)

First feat only

• SWF have +1 damage per [W] on weapon. No extra bonus.
• TWF have 4 attacks per chain. Each attack have 40% of procing an off-hand attack.
• THF have 4 attacks per chain. Two attacks (1st and 4th) have glancing blows that deal 30% of base damage to everyone around you, and 3% chance to proc weapon effects on glancing blows.

Both TWF and THF have doubled their extra damage (and THF got a little extra on weapon procs). SWF, during most of heroic levels, have gained +1 damage.

First and second Feat

• SWF have +2 damage per [W] on weapon. No extra bonus.
• TWF have 4 attacks per chain. Each attack have 60% of procing an off-hand attack.
• THF have 4 attacks per chain. Two attacks (1st and 4th) have glancing blows that deal 40% of base damage to everyone around you, and have 6% chance to proc weapon effects on glancing blows.

TWF and THF continue to progress on a 20% extra damage. SWF get another +1 damage (+2 if you are using paragon-level weapon)

Full feat chain

• SWF have +3 damage per [W] on weapon. No extra bonus.
• TWF have 4 attacks per chain. Each attack have 80% of procing an off-hand attack.
• THF have 4 attacks per chain. Three attacks (1st, 3rd and 4th) have glancing blows that deal 50% of base damage to everyone around you, and have 9% chance to proc weapon effects on glancing blows.

TWF keep going on their 20% increase, and now almost guarantee an off-hand proc in every attack.

THF got a great damage bump with a third glancing blow on its chain, and raising the additional damage steadily in another 10%.

SWF have an extra +1 damage. If you keep up all the way to thunder-forged weapons (4.5 [W] base), this means this feat alone is giving you (3 * 4.5) = 13.5 damage per hit.

Three feats for 13.5 damage.

Power Attack alone, on THF is +10 damage. On TWF is +8 damage (If keeping in the three-feats limit, with only ITWF).

That means, if you go with THF (saving two feats), you have almost the same damage output BEFORE counting out stuff like glancing blows and 1.5 str modifier on weapon damage. If you go with TWF (only up to ITWF), you get half the damage bonus, but half your attacks will be double weapon hits.

Also, you require skill graduations, which, while not that costly for classes that have balance as a class skill, like rogue (no tree that benefit SWF over TWF), monk (no benefit from SWF either, since it doesn't affect handwraps) and bards, is a pain for artificers and clerics (classes who MIGHT get interested in using SWF with runearm/orb).

So, I believe those feats missed the mark for both its intended competition (THF/TWF) AND as a generalist feat (that interests more people than only swashbucklers).

Sure, a swashbuckler, in LD, with the right equipment and combination of feats, enhancements, gear and epic destinies may take a big boost from those feats. But the same optimization level being applied to THF or TWF will wield better results.

I would add extra dodge or doublestrike there, since the original Single Weapon Style from 2e gave the masters of the style extra AC and attacks. By adding no-damage benefits on this feat line, you would create incomparables. No one could actually say if SWF is strictly better than the other two styles because you can't compare damage to defense. It would stop being compared to THF/TWF and be compared to S&B instead, which is an entirely new beast.

Changes in the Tree

Aqua Vitae is gone, that was good.

Confidence (Core 1) should also give Weapon Finesse by default.

Evasion should be moved to Core 4 (Panache, level 12), and Capstone altered to Improved Evasion.

Capstone still don't give much more over simply going Bard 18/Rogue 2. One of the main reasons for that is also that we simply lack good level 4+ bard spells that can fill all the extra spell slots we get on those two levels. Moving Evasion earlier, and giving Improved Evasion here is more tempting, since you don't get improved evasion on a rogue before level 10.

En Pointe is still useless. With swashbuckling threat bonus, once we get improved critical, we will crit one attack in three. DDO combat is too fast paced to give up on a 30% crit chance for a guaranteed crit. It was raised to two attacks, which, depending on the animation, may makes them worst than your common attacks/cleave. Make it an adrenaline-like attack (click to activate, next attack have those benefits), and it might have a niche being activated before a big attack. That, or make tier 3 remove the crit multiplier penalty.

I still believe Cannoneer should grant Runearm proficiency.

Different Tack, if you don't want to grant Weapon Finesse on Core 1, should also use the respective ability to hit.

I think Second Skin is too powerful. +12 reflex is a lot of reflex. Specially now that the tree have the ability to use dex to damage (making dex a primary stat option). Bards already have good base reflex saves (+12 versus +6), and will get an extra +1 reflex per core. You don't need extra +12 on top of this. Unless you just assumes everyone should have Divine Grace, and is covering for that. If that is the case, then I will take this as a signal that you will never balance EE saves again.

[jakeelala]

I think Second Skin is too powerful. +12 reflex is a lot of reflex. Specially now that the tree have the ability to use dex to damage (making dex a primary stat option). Bards already have good base reflex saves (+12 versus +6), and will get an extra +1 reflex per core. You don't need extra +12 on top of this. Unless you just assumes everyone should have Divine Grace, and is covering for that. If that is the case, then I will take this as a signal that you will never balance EE saves again.

Agreed. What about adding +3 Max Dodge Cap and having it be +6 Reflex?

[Andoris]

This would actually be much weaker than what they have now, at least with endgame or near-endgame equipment.

While I am okay with it being more, I think you are missing the 2/4/6% doublestrike I included, which pushes it over the top. Also the increase in +W means that it is useful in more situations (and wider level ranger) than just a perfect TF raiper with weapon attachment+ momentum Swing ... etc

[Nibor]

I'm pretty underwhelmed by the value of Single Weapon Fighting. The feats need to be not only on par with, but *better* than THF and TWF feats, because the mechanics of THF and TWF are better than SWF without feats to begin with.

So...yes, the SWF are trash. The swashbuckling bard will use them because it's better than nothing, but they'll be sad about it. No other build is going to be created because of these feats; they don't even help S&B builds (I would *LOVE* to hear the reason for not giving S&B access to the single weapon fighter feats, that's what I thought they were for!). May as well just make these enhancements in the swashbuckler tree and not make the feat-starved bard pay 3 feats for this trash.

I'm quoting myself because this is important. SWF feats are not going to support some previously-existing thing people want to do (it seems, since S&B is being excluded). You are trying to entice people to play in a new way. This means they need to be GOOD. They need to be POWERFUL and interesting!

Give me a reason to give up my offhand weapon. +3 damage isn't it.

Want to stick to you "increase die sides"? Get wild. How about +6 sides per feat? Yeah, my d4 dagger is now a d22. Average damage is still reasonable but boy howdy there are going to be damage spikes up and down. My T2 thunderforged war-axe is 11+4.5[1d22] that can hit for 15 or 110 (before my own damage bonuses).
Or maybe add +W instead. Doesn't scale as much as you get into epic but it's a nice jump when you get it. Probably can't be balanced well to be both strong enough at level cap and not completely overpowered when you take the feat in heroics.
Or add massive doublestrike - along with some way to get a "third strike" from your doublestrike. And fourth in some cases.
Or have the first feat add +1 "feat" bonus to your crit multiplier on 20. And the second feat adds it on a 19, and the third on an 18. Don't take them if you don't crit on a 19 or 18. I haven't done the math to see how this lines up with THF/TWF. You should! Run the math before you unleash them! They have to not only sound cool, but actually be cool.

[Scraap]

Single Weapon Fighting
While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides.

Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance


Improved Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6


Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11

I gotta say, that would be more compelling if there were more weapon mutations that factored base dice into the equation.

[jakeelala]

Also want to say my interest is primarily in Throwers, I didn't really include much about melee. On that topic though, On a feat starved bard I would NEVER take SWF feats as they are laid out today. They are terribad. Double all of their effects and we can talk.

[Grailhawk]

Glancing blows apply to an area of effect.

Two handed weapons get 1.5 times strength modifier added to the base damage, not 1 times like a single weapon does.

Two handed weapons get 10 points damage added by power attack, not 5.

EDIT: Also, is it really reasonable to assume 4.5[W]? That's basically requiring thunder forged weapons. We absolutely want to think about endgame weapons and content when considering balance, but it shouldn't be the only concern. The single weapon style is going to be much farther behind THF and TWF until you get to thunder forged gear, since it's the only style that adds damage before the W multiplier rather than after it.

Dance of Flowers makes TF weapons a 7[W] CitW weapons become 4-4.5[W] 4.5 is a reasonable assessment.

The math shows that SWF feat are about as good as the THF feat adding a bit more such as 10% armor piercing or alacrity like i suggested and the fighting style will be set.

[alancarp]

En Pointe is still useless. With swashbuckling threat bonus, once we get improved critical, we will crit one attack in three. DDO combat is too fast paced to give up on a 30% crit chance for a guaranteed crit.

This. Especially when you consider the doublestrike add-ons. I still would never take En Pointe. Please make it go away.

OTOH, this might be a decent slot to use for the addition of both Sonic spell power (+10/+20/+30) and Spell points (+30/+60/+90).

[Mryal]

I think Second Skin is too powerful. +12 reflex is a lot of reflex. Specially now that the tree have the ability to use dex to damage (making dex a primary stat option). Bards already have good base reflex saves (+12 versus +6), and will get an extra +1 reflex per core. You don't need extra +12 on top of this. Unless you just assumes everyone should have Divine Grace, and is covering for that. If that is the case, then I will take this as a signal that you will never balance EE saves again.

Keep the +12.Allows you not not necessarily be DEX build to have good reflex.Also its not that its balancing vs 'everyone has divine grace', but balancing for 'bards can never get divine grace'.

[Cardtrick]

While I am okay with it being more, I think you are missing the 2/4/6% doublestrike I included, which pushes it over the top. Also the increase in +W means that it is useful in more situations (and wider level ranger) than just a perfect TF raiper with weapon attachment+ momentum Swing ... etc

I don't disagree with your direction at all -- a bonus to doublestrike and a +W bonus are a lot easier to understand, and I would prefer them to this. I just think the numbers would have to be quite a lot higher. More like 25% doublestrike than 6%.

[Caprice]

Since the SWF feats only apply to melee weapons, and Different Tack only applies while Single Weapon Fighting (NOT while Swashbuckling), my reading is that Different Tack will not work with thrown weapons. Is that correct? I am disappointed.

[jakeelala]

Keep the +12.Allows you not not necessarily be DEX build to have good reflex.Also its not that its balancing vs 'everyone has divine grace', but balancing for 'bards can never get divine grace'.

Also a good point. This was probably also meant as a (crappy) trade-off for not moving Evasion out of Capstone. Sadface.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Single Weapon Fighting
While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides.

Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance


Improved Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6


Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11

Do these feats function with Handwraps?

PLEASE note: I'm not asking if they *should* work with handwraps. I'm asking if they *do* work with handwraps.

TWF feats currently work with handwraps, but when you equip handwraps, they are a single item in your hand and there is nothing in your off-hand, so it's possible that they would work, depending on how this is coded.

[Desonde]

We've tried to balance these feats against THF and TWF. We feel these will scale well into higher levels, as these bonuses from Single Weapon Fighting are multiplied by higher +(W) weapons. Our current plan allows these feats to work alongside Two-Handed Fighting if you are using a Bastard Sword or Dwarven Axe.

Which now makes the Sacred Defender line even more feat starved (Having to choose between Power Attack-Cleave-Great Cleave, 3 Two Handed Fighting Feats, 3 Single Handed Fighting Feats, and 4 Shield Feats [Choice of 7 of 13 feats when a nearly identical Stalwart Defender can select all 13 + 6 more]).

Due to both balance and technical concerns, these feats don't function with weapons that have multiple dice (as part of the base die, such as the 2d4 dagger "Agony, the Knife in the Dark"). Regular one-handed weapons and nearly all named one-handed items only have one die, but there are a few named items that won't function with Single Weapon Fighting.

Does this mean that multiple [w] items will stop being made? How will the general user base know that their feat may not function with the new item they got (using Agony as an example since it's got one of the smallest drop rates and likely chosen as a 20th reward, what happens when they equip it and notice their 3 feats are no longer benefiting them?)

Internally, we're discussing longer-range possibilities to address some issues with shield builds and thrown builds, which aren't covered by Single Weapon Fighting (except for Swashbuckler's exception where they can use bucklers with SWF).

Shield Mastery [Small+Large/Tower or Small/Large+Tower]?

Single Weapon Fighting
While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides.

Single Weapon Fighting: Requires fighting with a single one-handed melee weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your offhand.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d10 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (Example: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance


Improved Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Single Weapon Fighting increases to +4 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d12 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 4 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +6


Greater Single Weapon Fighting
Your bonus for Improved Single Weapon Fighting increases to +6 sides.

For instance, a 1d8 weapon instead deals 1d14 damage. This only functions for weapons with a single base weapon die (aka: This wouldn't function for weapons that do 2d4 base damage.)

Feat Requirement: 7 ranks of Balance, Base Attack Bonus +11

I like them, will definitely help out the SWF's [will need a way to help the Defender classes, otherwise this is going to be an Arti+Bard line, but will struggle with feat lack of feats though].

Changes in the Tree

Some of the more prominent changes to the tree include allowing Single-Weapon Fighting with a Buckler, putting more into the first core ability, adding in CHA / DEX / INT to-damage enhancements (while Single Weapon Fighting), and adding max-dex bonus to armor and reflex saving throws to both core abilities and Tier 5. Some abilities have also been renamed or had tentative numbers put in for various costs or cooldowns. All names and numbers still subject to further feedback, revision, and balancing.

Core Abilities

1 AP, class level 1: Confidence: Passive: +1% Dodge, +1 Reflex Save, and +1 to the Max Dex Bonus of your Armor per Swashbuckler Core Ability you have.

That's a solid Core ability.

5 AP, class level 3: Swashbuckling: Defensive Stance: You gain 1% Doublestrike and Doubleshot as well as +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of the weapon in your main hand. Swashbuckling requires wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor. (Druids cannot Swashbuckle while in animal forms.)
Passive: While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Critical Threat Range, +1 Critical Damage Multiplier
Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Critical Threat Range, +1 Critical Damage Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Critical Damage Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Critical Threat Range
Light Pick: +1 Critical Threat Range

Still missing Light Hammers and Kamas.

What about Scimitars from the T2 Tempest Core? And Shinning Crescent from Titan Awakes?

Tier One
Limber Up: +(1/2/3) to Balance, Jump, Swim, Haggle, and Tumble. 3rd Rank: When you Tumble, you gain +3 to saves against traps for 6 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

Still not sure why there is a long cooldown.

Tier Two
Deflect Arrows: You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6/4/2 seconds. (Antireq Tempest Deflect Arrows)

Since this isn't tied to the Tempest Improved Defenses line or Swashbuckling, a Tempest splash not wanting the 18 and 20 core enhancements could get ranged attack immunity?

Tier Five
Second Skin: While Swashbuckling, +3/6/12 to your Reflex Saves and +2/4/6 to the Max Dex Bonus of your Armor.

Now that's an ability to make me want to take T5 here.

[Scrabbler]

While Single-Weapon Fighting, your weapon die gains an additional +2 sides.

Without having done a lot of math, that seems like a quite inadequate bonus. (Except maybe in the case of special named Bastard Swords that benefit from THF feats as well, which wasn't the goal for Single-Weapon Fighting). TWF and THF feats give a multiplicative bonus, where magic effects have a higher chance to proc.

Single-Weapon Fighting might become a trap for newbies? At very low levels it would seem to add a lot of power compared to TWF/THF, but it wouldn't keep up with the scaling as your gear advances...

Due to both balance and technical concerns, these feats don't function with weapons that have multiple dice (as part of the base die, such as the 2d4 dagger "Agony, the Knife in the Dark"). Regular one-handed weapons and nearly all named one-handed items only have one die, but there are a few named items that won't function with Single Weapon Fighting.

You absolutely need to find a way to let all one-handed weapons work with Single-Weapon Fighting. In the case of Agony, for example, you could have it change from 2d4 to (1d4+1d6). That is, the "+X sides" bonus is added only once per weapon, splitting up any 2DZ into (1DZ + 1D(Z+X)).

Another way to handle it would be that the +X sides bonus from SWF is divided by the number of dice in the weapon's D. So GSWF adds +6 to a 1d4 weapon (total 1d10) but only +3 to a 2d4 weapon (total 2d7).

Feat Requirement: 2 ranks of Balance

Requiring skill ranks for a feat seems almost terrible, especially if it isn't possible to respec a skill as easily as a feat. (Meaningless for a lot of characters, obstructive to others)

[Tinco]

Dance of Flowers makes TF weapons a 7[W] CitW weapons become 4-4.5[W] 4.5 is a reasonable assessment.

The math shows that SWF feat are about as good as the THF feat adding a bit more such as 10% armor piercing or alacrity like i suggested and the fighting style will be set.

Except all existing +[W] enhancements require you to be centered or using PA (+1[W] from sixth LD core might work, not sure atm), both things that are not really promoted by this PrE and shoehorning people again into being centered and/or using PA should not be the goal here.

Still think roughly 10 seeker and 5% attackspeed per feat would be the way to go.