The bodybuilder: Fury, 8 fighter / 9 monk / 3 ranger, TWF CON-based dwarf

[Rull]

Advantages:
-ridiculous HP
-25% incorporeal
-Improved Evasion
-20 x6 / 19 x6 / 18 x4 / 17 x4 crit profile, with dragonforged heavy picks.
-100% offhand attack
-racial damage bonusses
-retain bonuses with bludgeoning damage
-cocoon-powered

The idea of this build is to make use of all the synergy that comes with con-based fighting.
-No str means no stunning bow. Means Fury of the wild as stun option (you basically NEED some stun as melee in EE imo, even more so than selfheal). Means twf to fuel Adrenaline regeneration.
-No str means you don't need 12 fighter. No str also means no need for CHA and divine might. So no need for paladin. This means enough levels to go deep in monk and still pick up ranger for more twf.
-No str but CON means dwarf. this means axes, hammers or picks.
-Best weapon in the game -probably- is conveniently not a sos/sireth/balizarde anymore, but crafted dragonforged. So any type is viable again.
-Also coincidentally, heavy picks are now par with the old king in crafted weapons, khopeshes, in terms of crit profile, thanks to Keen Edge (19/x4 base equals 18/x3 and both beat all other weapon types). With monk earth stance, this adds up to a 180% crit profile.
-Fury means relative benefit from a high crit multiplier/low crit range weapons because of the autocrit on 400% swings, so Heavy Picks has even more synergy.

Starting stats would look like:
18 con (+2 racial) +6 level
17 str +1 level
14 dex
9 wis
8 int
8 cha (-2 racial)

-master earth stance (for crit, but also +3 con, yay)
-cleave/greatcleave/overwhelming critical (thats why you still start with 17+1 str, too bad you are 1 short of max con)
-especially the improved evasion is something I am looking forward to. I'm getting sick of dying to 1200 point damage spells so instead of needing to have the reflex to save you just at LEAST 'autosave' for half.
-manyshot is easy to pick up for furyshotting.
-Alternatively, since dwarfs get you bonuses on 'picks and hammers', and for kensai focus the group is also 'picks and hammers', you might as well spend a feat on IC: bludgeoning and be good with warhammers as well.


To love this build, you do have to like Fury of the Wild. I think they play so much different from dreadnoughts that the two are hard to compare.

I'm leveling a bodybuilder soon, but I love him on paper already. Anyone else excited yet?

-edit: For the 5 spare feats (see below), I am now leveling with the ranged feat package to see how I like that. I will update the build with my experiences when I hit 21.

[Blackheartox]

Advantages:
-ridiculous HP
-25% incorporeal
-Improved Evasion
20 x6 / 19 x6 / 18 x4 / 17 x4 crit profile, with dragonforged heavy picks.
-100% offhand attack
-racial damage bonusses
-piercing as well as bludgeoning damage
-some healing amp and Devotion for cocoon

The idea of this build is to make use of all the synergy that comes with con-based fighting.
-No str means no stunning bow. Means Fury of the wild as stun option. Means twf to fuel.
-No str means you don't need 12 fighter. No str also means no need for CHA and divine might. Both mean enough levels to go deep in monk and still pick up ranger for more twf.
-No str but CON means dwarf. this means axes, hammers or picks.
-Best weapon in the game -probably- is conveniently not a sos/sireth/(balizarde) anymore, but dragonforged so any type is viable again.
-Also coincidentally, heavy picks are now par with the old king in crafted weapons, khopeshes, in terms of crit profile, thanks to Keen Edge (19/x4 base equals 18/x3 and both beat all other weapon types).
-Fury means relative benefit from a high crit multiplier (low crit range) weapon because of the autocrit on 400% swings, so Heavy Picks has even more synergy.

Starting stats would look like:
18 con +2 racial +7 level
18 str
12 dex
8 int
8 wis
8 cha

-master earth stance (for crit, but also +3 con yay)
-equally proficient in warhammers_ since you get you bonusses on 'picks and hammers' and for kensai focus tge group is also picks and hammers, you might as well spend a feat on IC: bludgeoning.
-cleave/greatcleave/overwhelming critical, thats why you still start with 18 str (but you need no other stat badly)
-manyshot is also easy to pick up for furyshotting. Or empower heal just for cocoon. You have feats to spare.
-especially the improved evasion is something I am looking forward to. I'm getting sick of dying to 1200 point damage spells so instead of needing to have the reflex to save you just at LEAST 'autosave' for half.

To like this, you do have to like Fury of the Wild. I think they play so much different from dreadnoughts that the two are hard to compare.

I'm levelling a bodybuilder soon, but I love him on paper already. Anyone else excited yet?

Selfhealing? Saves?
Palie splash isnt there for dm alone, but overall its a fun idea.
Will save will be low, same as reflex, quite low.
Fort should be coverd would be better in dreadnought, but you will fail alot of checks like webs, trips etc, think they offer only str/dex modifier for save.
Could selfheal via silver flame pots, since your stat for dam is con you wont lose as much dps as a str char based build. I can see it work with silver pots.
I have yet to tr to test out how primals balancing strikes acts with 2 weapon style, you could add that as some kind of semi cc.

Like the idea, we need more non bf melles xD

[lyrecono]

Selfhealing? Saves?
Palie splash isnt there for dm alone, but overall its a fun idea.
Will save will be low, same as reflex, quite low.
Fort should be coverd would be better in dreadnought, but you will fail alot of checks like webs, trips etc, think they offer only str/dex modifier for save.
Could selfheal via silver flame pots, since your stat for dam is con you wont lose as much dps as a str char based build. I can see it work with silver pots.
I have yet to tr to test out how primals balancing strikes acts with 2 weapon style, you could add that as some kind of semi cc.

Like the idea, we need more non bf melles xD

i agre, awesome build idea's, but the gaps need to be covered.

-saves
-stats, isn't it cheaper to go 16 str and put 2 (out of 7) stat upgrades into str? free's up 6 points for saves/skillpoints?
- selfhealing, on EE you'll run out of sp for cocoon in no time and 450 silverflame potions will be taken away in no time (having 3 emo clown assassins swinging their chain at you for 400 per hit doesn't help either)

[Rull]

-stats, isn't it cheaper to go 16 str and put 2 (out of 7) stat upgrades into str? free's up 6 points for saves/skillpoints?

Well 6 points in wisdom and dex don't weigh up to the 2 less in con: 1 reflex save + 2 will save isn't worth 1 fort + 28 hp and +1 dmg.
However, i'm working out the feats, and you can't use a +5 tome to get your dex to 17 to grab iTWF and gTWF. (I planned on using a fighter bonus feat for one but the last fighter feat must be greater weapon focus)
So yeah,
18 con +2 dwarf +6 levelup
17 str +1 levelup
14 dex
9 wis
8 int
8 cha (-2 dwarf)
instead.
And like lyrecono said, this isn't too big of a deal since this has other benefits too.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Well 6 points in wisdom and dex don't weigh up to the 2 less in con: 1 reflex save + 2 will save isn't worth 1 fort + 28 hp and +1 dmg.
However, i'm working out the feats, and you can't use a +5 tome to get your dex to 17 to grab iTWF and gTWF. (I planned on using a fighter bonus feat for one but the last fighter feat must be greater weapon focus)
So yeah,
18 con +2 dwarf +6 levelup
17 str +1 levelup
14 dex
9 wis
8 int
8 cha (-2 dwarf)
instead.
And like lyrecono said, this isn't too big of a deal since this has other benefits too.

i dont know what lvl split youre using, and i dont know if you can do this with an epic feat (i dont see why you couldnt though), or if you would have room for the 2 twf feats after lvl 19, but you can take gwf after you have lvl 8 ftr as a regular feat. definately works in heroic regular feat slots, never tried with epics.

also, i guess it depends on whether +1 ref +2 will would be a meaningful increase in your chance to completely avoid damage, but if this was a build without improved evasion id say yea those little bits are probably worth more. not that i could bring myself to do that personally. or if those saves dont float your boat and/or dont really affect your saves anyway theres always int to dump points into. but given that you are going for having imp evasion and just controlling dmg taken id say youre right the hp and +1 dmg is better.

[Rull]

So the feats I want for sure:

cleave
gCleave
iTWF
gTWF
IC: Piercing
Master Stance
wFocus Piercing
gwFocus Piercing
wSpecialization Piercing
epic Overwhelming Critical
epic Haste
(monk) Power Attack
(monk) Precision

leaves 4 feats and 1 monk feat to choose
options are:

Ranged plan:
-point blank shot
-manyshot
-precise shot
-improved precise shot
+and zen archery as monk feat
... but you won't be able to pick up IC: Ranged with this

Alternatively, you could take
-toughness
-epic toughness
-IC: Bludgeoning
-grandmaster stance, for 1 more CON
+dodge as monk feat

Another option::
-mobility
-spring attack
-combat experise
-whirlwind attack
+and dodge as monk feat

last, you can pick some sort of mix. Not sure what the mix should be:
-point blank shot
-manyshot
-non-ranged
-non-ranged
-non-ranged as monk feat

whatcha think?

[Irongutz2000]

Advantages:
-ridiculous HP
-25% incorporeal
-Improved Evasion
20 x6 / 19 x6 / 18 x4 / 17 x4 crit profile, with dragonforged heavy picks.
-100% offhand attack
-racial damage bonusses
-piercing as well as bludgeoning damage
-some healing amp and Devotion for cocoon

The idea of this build is to make use of all the synergy that comes with con-based fighting.
-No str means no stunning bow. Means Fury of the wild as stun option. Means twf to fuel.
-No str means you don't need 12 fighter. No str also means no need for CHA and divine might. Both mean enough levels to go deep in monk and still pick up ranger for more twf.
-No str but CON means dwarf. this means axes, hammers or picks.
-Best weapon in the game -probably- is conveniently not a sos/sireth/(balizarde) anymore, but dragonforged so any type is viable again.
-Also coincidentally, heavy picks are now par with the old king in crafted weapons, khopeshes, in terms of crit profile, thanks to Keen Edge (19/x4 base equals 18/x3 and both beat all other weapon types).
-Fury means relative benefit from a high crit multiplier (low crit range) weapon because of the autocrit on 400% swings, so Heavy Picks has even more synergy.

Starting stats would look like:
18 con +2 racial +7 level
18 str
12 dex
8 int
8 wis
8 cha

-master earth stance (for crit, but also +3 con yay)
-equally proficient in warhammers_ since you get you bonusses on 'picks and hammers' and for kensai focus tge group is also picks and hammers, you might as well spend a feat on IC: bludgeoning.
-cleave/greatcleave/overwhelming critical, thats why you still start with 18 str (but you need no other stat badly)
-manyshot is also easy to pick up for furyshotting. Or empower heal just for cocoon. You have feats to spare.
-especially the improved evasion is something I am looking forward to. I'm getting sick of dying to 1200 point damage spells so instead of needing to have the reflex to save you just at LEAST 'autosave' for half.

To like this, you do have to like Fury of the Wild. I think they play so much different from dreadnoughts that the two are hard to compare.

I'm levelling a bodybuilder soon, but I love him on paper already. Anyone else excited yet?

This is similar to some builds I have seen, weapon of choice is citw hammers usually. Most r 8 fighter, 6 ranger, 6 monk for manyshot with fury. U will almost certainly need silver flame pots and u can get a decent reflax save 50's if u twist some in.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

like the build. like the name. dorfpwer.

[Arcanegrin]

Great build, looks really fun. After playing a few con based builds I think you need to add more for your self healing. Self healing seems to be the biggest issue with con based builds that have 1500+ hp.

[Rull]

Fortunatly, I have a friendly healer girl who runs with me most of the time (where being non-warforged becomes a benefit). Maybe not every build needs to be selfhealing. For the worse raids and EE quests, an oldschool balanced party might be preferable. For soloing, I'll take my an alt who does selfheal.

I would love to work in ameliorating strike somehow, but the 8 fighter and 9 monk just doesn't allow it. 6 monk 6 fvs doesn't look appealing either.

As for saves (aside from a sky-high fort save) your saves are indeed low in numbers. But the main question is, how much does it matter with improved evasion? Improved evastion only works when you fail your save, therefore it shines most on low-save builds, which monks and rogues typically aren't, but this is. I THINK it's more reliable to always bite that 100dmg, or actually 55dmg after resist, for 200dmg spells and take 455 for the weird stuff. Instead of usually 0 but somtimes 955 on a failed save against a high damage/high save spell.
Will saves i have never been overly concerned about with infinite FOM from an enless flask + protection from evil.
knockdown on the other hand I dislike a lot. but you will have good balance as a dwarf to make up for it. And you strenght won't be terrible, with 23 base for overwhelming, you still get a decent score with a reasonable item (which is also nice for the bow strength you get from ranger2)

For more CC and to better abuse sense weakness, I am thinking of twisting Anvil of Thunder as Tier4 (instead of 15% fort bypass, or seeker+6). With 100% offhand this has a 35% chance to stun and deals 255dmg average, every 12 seconds. Not sure if it's good enough.

[Rull]

This is similar to some builds I have seen, weapon of choice is citw hammers usually. Most r 8 fighter, 6 ranger, 6 monk for manyshot with fury. U will almost certainly need silver flame pots and u can get a decent reflax save 50's if u twist some in.

But when con-based (which doesn't work on bows), I prefer improved evasion over furyshot capability.
With keen edge the heavy pick outshines the mornh-hammer in crit profile, but since there is no pick in citw the mornh still outdamaged the best heavy pick (random or alchemical). But now with dragonforged weapons it's picks for sure.

Of course this isn't an isolated idea. But, to quote someone famous, "Creativity is just connecting things".

[Syrrah]

The bodybuilder ...

So, we're now one month later. How is the build performing? I'm especially interested in Throw Your Weight Around: does it give equal DPS as a STR build would have? Did you stick with picks for end game?

[lyrecono]

I'm intrigued too, how is the build progressing?
any problems you ran into, any help in gearing/leveling required?

Not directed at anyone, but just what's on my mind which reading some of the responses.

This is a multiplayer game. I can't understand why the radical change when ED's came out. Suddenly NOBODY wanted to group. It was all about self healing self sufficient self blah blah blah. There is this great thing called a group, and even greater things called static groups. This is a multiplayer game: instead of sacrificing tons of damage just to scrap in some self healing, why not run with a healer? That is what they are for, after all... Instead of sacrificing tons of damage and power for crazy saves, why not run with a rogue to do the traps for you? That is what they are for, after all. Worried about casters getting to you? Run with a wizard, they can crowd control all those casters and they wont touch you ever again. That is, again, what they are for.

Self sufficiency is fun and all, but I really kinda miss the old way of things. Playing a crazy raging barbarian who takes 200 damage per second directly from himself, not even taking into consideration the damage that is being taken from EE mobs, was a ton of fun. And it used to be possible because most people still grouped. So, you grab a healer that has made a name for him/herself on the server, and you go chop some mobs down with more power than any self-sufficient toon could push out in a day.

/rant off

At OP, I like the idea of the build. Looking forward to seeing some videos and screenshots.

Turbine killed that "M" in MMO,
Instakill spells made it more mana conserving to instakill a mob then to heal the melee that's beating on it.
Second, with the EE difficulty, your life hangs lies in the hands of someones play skill, gear, build and concentration.
As a dedicated melee toon, i prefer to be able to handle my own heals.
Traps? many popular builds simply run past them, with so many past lives to farm, exp per minute becomes more important that 1,5k extra exp
With the notable exceptions here and there
Population, the population of my server is declining and spread over a larger range of content.
When i put a group together with guildies and channel members, it's fast flawless EE completions 95% of the time, when i put up a lfm and let anyone (within lv range) in, the success rate drops drastically. (>50%)
Beating EE mobs down is a grind on it's own, taking 6 monchkers is much more efficient then a balanced party
Few of those channel member/guildies run divine casters anymore, let alone a dedicated healer. (besides an occasional past life)

Turbine outright killing classes, breaking game mechanics etc doesn't help either.

instead of pondering over the ruins, take a honest look at the build plans, history and it's main architects.