Swashbuckler

[Havok.cry]

Core Abilities5 AP, class level 3: Swashbuckling: Defensive Stance: You gain 1% Doublestrike and Doubleshot as well as +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of the weapon in your main hand. Swashbuckling requires wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor. (Druids cannot Swashbuckle while in animal forms.)

• 
  
  • Passive: While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
    Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
    Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
    Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
    Handaxe: +2 Range
    Light Pick: +1 Range

A couple things to say about this item:

• Why are you not including the two exotic weapons specifically designed for single handed fighting (IE bastard sword and dwarven waraxe)? They already cost a feat, they should not be excluded from this.
• Will all these crit profile bonuses work just as well and Ninja spy shuriken crit bonus does?

• 10 AP, class level 6: Uncanny Dodge: You gain the Uncanny Dodge feat. Passive:
• 30 AP, class level 18: Roll with the Punches: While Swashbuckling, you gain the Slippery Mind feat.
• 41 AP, class level 20: Evasive Maneuvers: +2 CHA, +2 DEX.While Swashbuckling, you gain the Evasion feat, +1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, +1 Damage, and the weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus.

I have mixed feelings on this. On one hand you have a capstone that seems like it might be worthwhile. Will you be making other capstones worth anything as well? On the other hand just blithely giving a class a bunch of class features from another class seems like a terribad idea.

Multiselector: Insults

1. Scathing Words: Activate to reduce the Fortitude saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
2. Cutting Jibes: Activate to reduce the Will saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
3. Appalling Diatribe: Activate to reduce the Reflex saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)

These seem pretty worthless if they aren't toggle or passive.

1. Limber Up: +(1/2/3) to Balance, Jump, Swim, and Tumble. 3rd Rank: When you Tumble, you gain +3 to saves against traps for 6 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

Seriously?!? Tumble? This will not make that skill any less worthless. Especially since all the bard players out there can already bypass most traps without making a save anyway. Except for spell wards... which don't seem to have saves for the annoying part anyway.

Tier Two

1. En Pointe: Melee Attack: Make an attack with +4/8/12 critical threat range, but -1 Critical Multiplier. Costs Spell Points to activate.
2. Deflect Arrows: You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6/4/2 seconds. (Antireq Tempest Deflect Arrows)
3. Aqua Vitae: Gain 3 Temporary Hit Points per Bard Level for 9 seconds. Heal 1d6 HP every two seconds while the temporary hitpoints persist. (Long cooldown).
4. Sword Dance: While Swashbuckling, when enemies miss you in combat, you deal 1d10/1d12/1d20 Sonic Damage. Scales with Spell Power. (This triggers off of various miss chances, including Dodge, Armor Class, Displacement, etc.)

1-If it is more than 0-3 spell points this ability will be a design failure. Paying SP to have a chance for a weaker critical (not even guaranteed) on a single attack, seems like a poor use of your buttons and AP and the effort to even push a button.
2-good addition, but here is a thought: Instead of adding in enhancements to make that feat worth the pixels it is written with, why not just make the arrow/2second part of the feat?
3-I shall name you mini cocoon and wonder why I am using you over the HP song in spellsinger. Long coolcown is a design failure if it is more than 18 seconds. This a class that can cast cure spells on itself, greatly devaluing an ability like this.
4-If this functions as written it could be interesting.

Tier Three

1. Elegant Footwork: When enemies miss you while Swashbuckling, they have a small chance to be knocked down with no save. Cooldown: 12 seconds.
2. Swashbuckling Style:
   
   1. Dashing Scoundrel: While Swashbuckling with nothing in your off hand, you gain +1 Damage per 5 Character levels and 7% Doublestrike/Doubleshot.
   2. Skirmisher: While Swashbuckling with a Buckler in your off hand, you gain 7% Dodge.
   3. Arcane Marauder: You can now Swashbuckle with an Orb in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Magical Training.
   4. Cannoneer: You can now Swashbuckle with a Rune Arm in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Runearm Proficiency.
   
   
3. Resonant Arms: While Swashbuckling, the Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand deals an additional 2d6/4d6/6d6 Sonic Damage on critical hits.This Sonic damage scales with spellpower.
4. Fast Movement: You run faster. Additional Bard levels increases the speed bonus.

1-For how long? if they are getting right back up this ablity is not worth the pixels used to write it.
2-Really?? Rune arms and orbs, but no Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes? Screw this tree!
3-Looks cool.... if it included Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes anyway.
4-More things accross all classes need the "Additional Class levels increases" part of this ability

Tier Four

1. On the Mark: Passive +1/2/3 to attack rolls to confirm critical hits and damage on critical hits (before weapon multipliers)
2. Multiselector: Swashbuckling Style II
   
   1. Slap in the Face: While Swashbuckling and wielding nothing in your off hand, activate to deal 1 Bludgeon damage. Damaged enemies can't cast spells for 3/6/9 seconds and are stunned for one second (Perform + d20 saves for the Stun). 18 second cooldown. Costs 10 Spell Points.
   2. Low Blow: While Swashbuckling and wielding a Buckler in your off hand, activate to perform a shield bash with +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier. On hit, briefly knock down affected enemy (Perform + d20 saves for the Knockdown). Costs 10 Spell Points.
   3. Loud & Clear:Toggle: While Swashbuckling with an Orb in your off hand, +10 Sonic Spell Power.
   4. Tune Arm/Music Box: Toggle: While Swashbuckling with a Rune Arm in your off hand, your Rune Arm Weapon Imbue deals an additional 1d6 Sonic damage.
   
   
3. Battering Barrage: (2 AP, 2 ranks) While Swashbuckling, critical hits inflict Destruction/Improved Destruction.

1-Mostly worthless, unless it is a prerequisite for something this enhancement will never be taken by anyone anywhere ever (except for newbies who don't know better).
2-I said this for another ability, but it bears repeating: Really?? Rune arms and orbs, but no Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes? Screw this tree!
3-This has potential... if it included Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes anyway.

Tier Five

1. Thread the Needle: While Swashbuckling, +5 Damage while the Precision feat is active.
2. Exploit Weaknesses:While Swashbuckling, every time you damage an enemy but do not critically hit, you gain a stacking +1 Insight Bonus to Critical Threat Range until you successfully critically hit.

1-Not so sure on this one, but it looks like it is trying to make up for having precision over power attack. I would increase the bonus damage on this.... and make sure it stacks with pretty much everything power attack does. Maybe also make precision count as power attack for other effects (Like momentum swing/laywaste)
2-Looks cool.... if it included Bastard Swords or Dwarven Axes anyway.

Over all it has potential, but is not meeting it at all. You are leaving out the two single weapon style weapons out of the exotic weapons, and I honestly don't give a **** if they are pirate themed weapons or not, it is bad design. They already cost a feat on a feat starved class and if you are going to go all out on their potential it would be 1 proficiency feat, 3 THF feats, 2 shield mastery feats, 3 theoretical single weapon fighting feats. So even with a balance perspective it would be costly to use them, and should being willing to pay a cost should be rewarded, not denied. You can't claim, that with that cost, it is a balance issue either. Also I should point out that this is after all one of the classes that can NOT multi class with either monk or paladin.

[Cardtrick]

The Dashing Scoundrel (Empty Hand) option in Swashbuckling Styles is intentionally stronger than the other ones. To use it, you're giving up having any other item in your off hand, ever. The comparison is 7% Dodge plus whatever your Buckler's giving you.

This is a case where it's tough for us to give meaningful feedback without knowing what the Single Weapon Fighting feats give. From your quote here, it sounds like they give less than what you'd get from a single buckler and the shield feats, which is discouraging.

[Nibor]

I couldn't disagree more.

Sword-and-board needs help, yes. But that help shouldn't come in the form of requiring 3 more feats.

That would basically rule it out for melee clerics, favored souls, and paladins -- the classes that really should be using shields most. Requiring 3 feats in addition to the various shield feats they already need is just too much for anyone but fighters.

This is why I said in a previous post that the SWF-line should actually be just a single feat - because almost all S&B characters right now are painfully feat starved, and the new Swashbucklers will be no different.

[maddmatt70]

Teh Troll is right (gods help me) - bards are a weak enough class that you should err on the side of overpowered for this tree. This still feels... hesitant. An approach which might be warranted if this was for a caster class or a monk, but bards need to be buffed aggressively.

At the very least, either let them use Charisma for attack/damage modifiers or give them a bonus to attack and damage based on Cha. It's the right thing to do in terms of both flavor and viability.

Slap in the Face needs to be longer than 1 second stun, 1 second stun is next to meaningless. Make it the same duration as stunning blow - it won't unbalance anything, I promise!

In the end, though, it's next to impossible to say how viable this will be without having more concrete ideas of what the One-handed fighting style feats will offer. Just spitballing here, but I'd say go with something like the following (the numbers are total, not stacking):


If the above seems like a lot, remember that giving up an offhand slot entirely means losing out on a lot more than extra attacks or AC - it means losing out on a host of possible beneficial abilities, augment slots, etc. We need something big to replace what we're giving up!

Charisma to damage is not going to result in much power gain really. I would say increase the doublestrike even more personally like 25% or so.

[Nibor]

On the Mark - does this stack with existing Crit Confirmation / Crit Damage enhancements? You already did a pass to specifically line all of those up, and make them all cost the same. And here you've combined both into a single enhancement and kept it at the 1 AP cost, and with a new name.
I'm not really convinced it's overpowering for it to stack, but then I felt letting Tempest/Kensei crit damage stack was also acceptable.

[dejafu]

Charisma to damage is not going to result in much power gain really. I would say increase the doublestrike even more personally like 25% or so.

I don't think it would be a huge boost by any means, either, but it can't hurt.

[maddmatt70]

I don't think it would be a huge boost by any means, either, but it can't hurt.

I think the following improvements:
- Change the Core Tiers to +3% doublestrike/doubleshot instead of +1%.
- Change the enhancement with no oft hand item to +10% doublestrike/doubleshot (have to balance the other fighting styles a bit and bump them a bit as well).
- Add a tier 5 enhancement +3%/+6%/+9% doublestrike/doubleshot.

That would be more inline with what bards need.

[dejafu]

I think the following improvements:
- Change the Core Tiers to +3% doublestrike instead of +1%.
- Change the enhancement with no oft hand item to +10% doublestrike (have to balance the other fighting styles a bit and bump them a bit as well).
- Add a tier 5 enhancement +3%/+6%/+9% doublestrike.

That would be more inline with what bards need.

I agree that those would make for good changes in the right direction. Charisma to attack/damage can be an additional bonus.

I'm not advocating it as the only improvement needed, just one of many!

[FranOhmsford]

First Core abilities are generally not that powerful. 1% Dodge for 1 AP is fairly strong for a level 1 Bard on Korthos.

Sorry but no it's not!

1% Dodge on Korthos makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to anyone!

At this stage it's an unnecessary bonus.

Whereas having it scale by 1 for every two Bard levels (1,3,5 etc.} to 10% at Lvl 19
AND
Having it ignore Armour Caps
AND
Having an ability in the tree to make the Max Dodge Cap higher
would be much better

Fair point. Increasing the Max Dex bonus is something we'll discuss internally.

Don't forget the Dodge Cap - 7% extra Dodge is no use to anyone if you can hit that cap without it!

We'd love to hear what you (and others) think the SP cost and cooldown should be. As of now, it is planned to go off almost instantaneously, have about the same AOE as Soundburst, have no max number of targets and would affect Bosses. You hit the button, every nearby enemy's saves go down. There are currently three planned ranks of each, with each rank planned to reduce cooldown and SP cost (wherever that ends up landing).

NO Spell Point cost - This is a Melee pre and shouldn't require Magical Training and/or Wizardry items to be useful!

This ability is meant to be a viable, non-magical emergency self-heal. From feedback so far, it sounds like the healing is too low at the very least. We'd love to know where you all think the healing should be, or what changes would make this ability interesting/"worth taking". Do bear in mind, it can be taken at level two.

To avoid the obvious splash potential this is going to have to be a Lvl 12 ability - THEN you can look at it's Healing potential.

The Dashing Scoundrel (Empty Hand) option in Swashbuckling Styles is intentionally stronger than the other ones. To use it, you're giving up having any other item in your off hand, ever. The comparison is 7% Dodge plus whatever your Buckler's giving you.

The 7% Dodge is utterly and completely worthless unless it adds to BOTH your Dodge Cap and Armour Cap!

[RJBsComputer]

I think this is a good start at getting other classes and fighting styles involved in the game. What I don't see being talked about that is VERY important at making any of the "up coming" improvements work is the improvement in the basic Feat Line that all characters choose from. There is currently a line for Two Handed Fighting, Two Weapon Fighting, and Mega-Magic Feats but there is not a Feat Line for Sword and Shield Fighting or for Single Handed Fighting. Plus if you want to take it one step further, you could even look at Unarmed Fighting and Archery Fighting. If you are going to be adding new PrE Lines that don't have Feat Lines that back them up, then the class improvement and players choosing the new choices will not happen.

[Cardtrick]

To avoid the obvious splash potential this is going to have to be a Lvl 12 ability - THEN you can look at it's Healing potential.

I really don't think we need to worry about overpowered splashes. Anyone interested in power-building isn't going to splash bard no matter what, since alignment restrictions mean it locks out easily the two most powerful splashes available -- monk for feats/evasion/stances and paladin for saves.

[Powskier]

Swashbuckler implies a sword specialty;because the word has buckler in it,it really isnt relevant to shield usage. Also why no heavy blade option? sure a light swordsman sounds relevant,but the light whepon damages suk.My bard does quite well w a long sword in epic;and get two hander sword benefit at heroic from same enhancement.I couldnt imagine runnin around with a lightweight sword in elite...and ,hmmm Sonic power? never bothered ,takes away from heal skill & open locks/disable build.Bucklers are really just cheap peasant shields that won't encumber melee in reality.Just dont change the CC buckler,my bard is in love w that item

[PsychoBlonde]

There's some neat aspects to this, certainly, but I don't see it being enough by itself to support a throwing build. A little extra doubleshot is NOTHING compared to, say, monk abilities that give you the ability to throw multiple shuriken in ADDITION to doubleshot. And 15% or whatever doublestrike is not remotely equivalent to the 80+ % offhand procs you can get with a TWF build. There aren't any FEATS that work well with a one-hander, either. And a bard is not going to have the massive sneak attack that makes a rogue thrower semi-viable. A teeny bit of extra sonic damage does not make up for 15d6+ of sneak damage.

The tree is REALLY generic, too. Aside from the sonic damage and maybe the insults there's nothing really "song" related to make this a BARD tree. Where's the synergy? And the effect of insults makes no sense--if it affects SAVING THROWS it ought to be in Spellsinger. Insults ought to affect combat stats.

The evasion capstone is cool and much-needed. Other than that, you really need stuff like the actual 3rd edition swashbuckler "you add your int to damage" ability or the duelist "here's 3d6 free damage on all attacks" ability or "add your int to AC".

I think some form of dex to damage is needed here, too. If Swashbuckling is a defensive stance that means it's mutually exclusive with all the rage-related stuff from Warchanter, no?

[alancarp]

So the Mad Lute is right out with this tree. How about a 'Singing Sword' instead?

[Munkenmo]

Does Dashing Scoundrel work with handwraps?

[viktorserak]

Core Abilities

• 1 AP, class level 1: Swift Strikes: Passive: +1% Dodge.
• 5 AP, class level 3: Swashbuckling: Defensive Stance: You gain 1% Doublestrike and Doubleshot as well as +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of the weapon in your main hand. Swashbuckling requires wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor. (Druids cannot Swashbuckle while in animal forms.)
  
  • Passive: While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
    Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
    Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
    Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
    Handaxe: +2 Range
    Light Pick: +1 Range
  
  
• 10 AP, class level 6: Uncanny Dodge: You gain the Uncanny Dodge feat. Passive: Swashbuckling grants an additional 1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, and +1 Damage.
• 20 AP, class level 12: Panache: While Swashbuckling, you gain +1% Dodge, 1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, +1 Damage, +1 Reflex Saving Throw, and the weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus.
• 30 AP, class level 18: Roll with the Punches: While Swashbuckling, you gain +5 Insight Bonus to Character Dodge Cap, the Slippery Mind feat, +1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, and +1 Damage.
• 41 AP, class level 20: Evasive Maneuvers: +2 CHA, +2 DEX.While Swashbuckling, you gain the Evasion feat, +1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, +1 Damage, and the weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus.

Tier One

1. On Your Toes: +1/2/3 Dodge
2. Blow By Blow:
   
   1. Multiselector: Melee or Thrown Attack: Make an attack with +(1/2/3) critical threat range that deals extra Sonic damage, and reduces your threat with nearby enemies. This sonic damage scales with Spell Power.
   
   
3. Multiselector: Insults
   
   1. Scathing Words: Activate to reduce the Fortitude saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
   2. Cutting Jibes: Activate to reduce the Will saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
   3. Appalling Diatribe: Activate to reduce the Reflex saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
   
   
4. Tavern Shanties: +1/2/3 Bard Songs.
5. Limber Up: +(1/2/3) to Balance, Jump, Swim, and Tumble. 3rd Rank: When you Tumble, you gain +3 to saves against traps for 6 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

Tier Two

1. En Pointe: Melee Attack: Make an attack with +4/8/12 critical threat range, but -1 Critical Multiplier. Costs Spell Points to activate.
2. Deflect Arrows: You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6/4/2 seconds. (Antireq Tempest Deflect Arrows)
3. Aqua Vitae: Gain 3 Temporary Hit Points per Bard Level for 9 seconds. Heal 1d6 HP every two seconds while the temporary hitpoints persist. (Long cooldown).
4. Sword Dance: While Swashbuckling, when enemies miss you in combat, you deal 1d10/1d12/1d20 Sonic Damage. Scales with Spell Power. (This triggers off of various miss chances, including Dodge, Armor Class, Displacement, etc.)
5. Multiselector:
   
   1. Action Boost: Doublestrike: You gain +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to Doublestrike for 20 seconds. Usable 5 times per rest.
   2. Action Boost: Doubleshot: You gain +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to Doubleshot for 20 seconds. Usable 5 times per rest.

Tier Three

1. Elegant Footwork: When enemies miss you while Swashbuckling, they have a small chance to be knocked down with no save. Cooldown: 12 seconds.
2. Swashbuckling Style:
   
   1. Dashing Scoundrel: While Swashbuckling with nothing in your off hand, you gain +1 Damage per 5 Character levels and 7% Doublestrike/Doubleshot.
   2. Skirmisher: While Swashbuckling with a Buckler in your off hand, you gain 7% Dodge.
   3. Arcane Marauder: You can now Swashbuckle with an Orb in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Magical Training.
   4. Cannoneer: You can now Swashbuckle with a Rune Arm in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Runearm Proficiency.
   
   
3. Resonant Arms: While Swashbuckling, the Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand deals an additional 2d6/4d6/6d6 Sonic Damage on critical hits.This Sonic damage scales with spellpower.
4. Fast Movement: You run faster. Additional Bard levels increases the speed bonus.
5. CHA/DEX

Tier Four

1. On the Mark: Passive +1/2/3 to attack rolls to confirm critical hits and damage on critical hits (before weapon multipliers)
2. Multiselector: Swashbuckling Style II
   
   1. Slap in the Face: While Swashbuckling and wielding nothing in your off hand, activate to deal 1 Bludgeon damage. Damaged enemies can't cast spells for 3/6/9 seconds and are stunned for one second (Perform + d20 saves for the Stun). 18 second cooldown. Costs 10 Spell Points.
   2. Low Blow: While Swashbuckling and wielding a Buckler in your off hand, activate to perform a shield bash with +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier. On hit, briefly knock down affected enemy (Perform + d20 saves for the Knockdown). Costs 10 Spell Points.
   3. Loud & Clear:Toggle: While Swashbuckling with an Orb in your off hand, +10 Sonic Spell Power.
   4. Tune Arm/Music Box: Toggle: While Swashbuckling with a Rune Arm in your off hand, your Rune Arm Weapon Imbue deals an additional 1d6 Sonic damage.
   
   
3. Battering Barrage: (2 AP, 2 ranks) While Swashbuckling, critical hits inflict Destruction/Improved Destruction.
4. Wind at my Back: +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of your equipped Throwing Weapons, plus an additional +1 for every five Bard levels.
5. CHA/DEX

Tier Five

1. Thread the Needle: While Swashbuckling, +5 Damage while the Precision feat is active.
2. Exploit Weaknesses:While Swashbuckling, every time you damage an enemy but do not critically hit, you gain a stacking +1 Insight Bonus to Critical Threat Range until you successfully critically hit.

I am about to start my bard life during this month, so i postphone it a little....

that said what seems good and what seems bad to me:

The first core is just underwhelming.
The lvl 18 core should definitely have armor dex cap increase, so there is a reason to use light armor instead of robes.
The capp core (lvl 20) is not interesting enough to take, if we compare it to 2 levels of rogue. (those also give acces to rogue trees, bonus to all saves, evasion, ability to do traps and lockpicking, ton of skill points and so on).

Tier 1 enchantements:

These all look decent, Blow by Bow and Insults may or may not be usefull depending on the damage they will do (in case of Blow) and the cooldowns and mana they will cost. Bards Are weak and cannot splash neither monk (awesome everything) nor paladin (awesome saves). Please, have that in mind - bards need all the power they can get. Be generous.

Tier 2:

Aqua vitae: This is complicated. 1. bards dont need selfhealing enchantement. They have healing spells on their spells list. 2. Does positive spellpower affect the amount of HP healed? If not, then this ability is useless. 3. Long cooldown... if long means anything over 30 seconds, then its useless. If it means anything over 20, then its almost useless. Bards have healing spells, so they dont rly need this in the first place...

Sworddance: I really like this one. Good choice!

Deflect arrows: very good as well.

The doublestrike-doubleshot is also kinda nice.

En pointe is not something I would use, but for those who dont take the last tier of this tree, I can see the appeal.

Tier 3:

I like pretty much everything in here. Its not somehow overpowered, but nice. The styles will force us to do some hard choices.

Thats said Elegant Footwork seems little underwhelming.

Tier 4:

Battering Barrage and Wind at my arms (the throwing thing) are great and I like them.

On the mark on tier 4 looks like a joke. Should be tier 1 or 2.... as tier 4 its just... well, its hard for me to imagina anyone taking it.

The stances number II.... well:
1. Slap in the face causes 1 second stun with a save, costs mana AND has 18 seconds cooldown. And I am pretty sure the "no casting" part only works on reglar mobs, no bosess. This makes this ability totally useless. Leave it at trash only, but increase the stun lenght and lower the cooldown. Then, it will be an interesting ability. Like this, its one big meh.
2 Low Blow - knock down is generally less interesting then stun, so this ability should definitely have shorter cooldown OR longer effect then Slap in the face.
3. Loud and Clear - this is absolutely, horribly underwhelming. Absolutely and totally. If you want to go this way, at least double the amount of spell power this gives, better yet - triple it.
4. Cannoneer - this looks great for ranged build, but since it requires specific investement (at least 2 levels of Artificer, thus no evasion on capp), I feel it should give more dmg. Maybe 2d6? Loosing evasion or going 16/2/2 split just for evasion is a very hard investement.

generally, All the second stances seems kinda underwhelming for tier 4. On the mark is extremely bad, but Barage and Wind are very nice and very well done.

Tier 5:

Exploit Weakness is awesome. Way to go!

Thread the Needle - hmmm. This will depend a LOT on how you plan the one handed fight feats. Right now, every single meele in the gae wants Power attack, Cleave, Great Cleave and Overwhelming critical. Thread the needle means, that I would have to waste one feat (I would have to take Power Attack just as prerequisite and never use it). Bards dont have any extra feats, so that is a hard choice. Also, it has zero synergy with Legendary Dread Epic desiny, but that may be your goal.
Outside of LD and depending on single handed feats, this may be interesting to take.


Now, generally to the tree:

For throwing, it does not give enough to compare with shuricannons (monk shuriken throwers). If you wanted to make and alternatve thrower for nonmonks, then this is not enough and you have to add something more. If you wanted toon that can switch to throwing in some situations and do mediocore damage, then this is it. But it wont be somehow desired by most players.
Also, please, consider if you dont want to add either 1 spell power point into sonic for each ench point spend in the tree or something like 5/5/10/10... sonic spellpower per each core enchantement.

As it stands, it will greatly depend on how you will make the single weapon fighting feats strong and eventually, if you will count weapon and orb/buckler/runearm as combination, that qualifies for single weapon fighting feat bonuses. If yes, then this may be interesting tree. If not.... well, it wont hurt bard any further. He is on the bottom of all clasess already.

Also, VERY INTERESTING choice would be, if you would make an enchantement, that would allow bards to use runearms without splashing artie. That woudl be pure awesomenss /in which case, Leave the Music box as is/

[Steelstar]

Does Dashing Scoundrel work with handwraps?

No, because when wearing Handwraps (or when unarmed in general), you don't qualify for the Swashbuckling stance.

[HatsuharuZ]

Instead of commenting on the numbers, I'd like to point out a few issues with the restrictions and other features of this tree.

Issue 1)
Seeing as the One-handed Fighting feat line hasn't been revealed yet, it makes no sense to me to make abilities that specifically require an empty off-hand. Instead, I would suggest giving an offensive bonus (such as doublestrike/doubleshot), and then varying the amount of the bonus given based on the size of whatever is on my off-hand. This feels a lot more logical to me than your current proposal.

Example:
+4 doublestrike/doubleshot chance when nothing is equipped in the off-hand, while Swashbucking is active.
+3 D.S. chance when a buckler, finesse weapon or Orb is equipped in the off-hand, while Swashbuckling is active.
+2 D.S. chance when a large shield or rune arm is equipped, while Swashbuckling is active.

Also, make it so that an Elf with the Grace enhancement can use longswords and/or scimitars as swashbuckling weapons, and increase some of the defensive bonuses based on the size of the off-hand weapon. Swashbuckling should not be compatible with tower shields.


Issue 2)
Many other trees give dexterity to damge. Why not this one? I would suggest making it so that the tree automatically gives weapon finesse as a first level or third level core ability, with the caveat that the character also gains their dexterity modifier to *damage* with finessable weapons if they have picked weapon finesse as a feat.


Issue 3)
Evasion while swashbuckling is powerful as a capstone. However, I would suggest moving it to a lower core ability, since it requires more strict requirements (equipped weapon restrictions) than regular evasion does, and bards are squishy, I think the evasion portion of the capstone should be moved to the twelth level core ability. in addition, add a swashbuckling version of "Evasive Dance" from the fifth tier of the Tempest tree to the same tier of the Swashbuckler tree. In addition, please add some more reflex save bonuses to the swashbuckler defensive stance.

Issue 4)
There is exactly one named buckler in the game that I am aware of. Unless you plan to add more, I would suggest making it possible to use larger shields (not including tower shields!) in Swashbuckler stance. See the first point of my post for further comments and suggestions on shields.

Issue 5)
There isn't much synergy between bard and artificer enhancements. The "Weapon Training" line in the Battle Engineer tree only gives bonuses to crossbows or hand-and-a-half weapons (b-swords and dwarven axes). I would suggest adding a finesse weapons option to the Battle Engineer tree. Recall that both rogue and monk enhancements have stacking q-stave enhancements, and those builds are rather popular.

[Munkenmo]

There's nothing in this tree that would make me give up monk or pally levels..

Even as a 16bard/2fighter/2rogue I'd not invest heavily in this tree, there's nothing to augment my songs, nothing boosting my perform, the melee capabilities are pathetic compared to 2 handed cleave and great cleave.

Single handed feats could potentially improve this tree, but I doubt single handed fighting can be made viable without the feats being so powerful they invalidate 2wf or 2hf. If you allow Single handed fighting feats to work with thrown weapons it won't help this tree, it'll push shuriken builds further ahead.

Overall this tree's only hope at a unique new build is throwers, but you've made shuriken so powerfull that I can't see any swashbuckling thrower builds that would compete with a shuriken build.

You've poached abilities from other areas and mashed them into a single tree, this is a tree with no synergies, and no direction. Scrap it.

[Munkenmo]

No, because when wearing Handwraps (or when unarmed in general), you don't qualify for the Swashbuckling stance.

5 AP, class level 3: Swashbuckling: Defensive Stance: You gain 1% Doublestrike and Doubleshot as well as +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of the weapon in your main hand. Swashbuckling requires wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor. (Druids cannot Swashbuckle while in animal forms.)

Handwraps are finessable. You should put the standard handwraps disclaimer in, because right now that description makes it look like wraps are compatible.