Swashbuckler

[jakeelala]

Adrenalines are one shot deals, do you really propose that a few per rest one shot attacks in an ED make this tree viable? You can get high crit range and multipliers with TWF and THF and Druids can get Doublestrike very high.

Remember this tree MUST COMPENSATE FOR LACKING THF and TWF damage. It's very roughly HALF the DPS of those styles from the get go... so not only must it CATCH UP it must compete with the likes of Shuricannon's and Centered Kensei's or be relegated to flavor toons.

I am not adverse to flavor toons, I have my own stable of failed experiments, gimps, semi-gimps, surprisingly effective; but still gimps, and etc. you can bring your flavor toon to my LFM or Raid any time, however a lot of people are not as laid back as I am. And a LOT of people want the Bard to get buffed into being relevant again... this tree as it stands does not do that. It also fails to be "deadly" as a swashbuckler's main archetypical "Raison d'être" is swift lethality... this tree proposes one handed sawing down of 50,000hp oak trees. with d6 base a couple [W]'s and single 15-20X2 thunderforged weapon with a buckler in the off hand doing not a lot.

Let me see if I can summerize the hurdles:
Bard class is way behind for melee (feats, enhancements)
This tree doesn't even compensate for the loss of DSP to TWF or THF
This tree doesn't compensate for the loss of DPS due to Bard class

Weak melee class + weak combat style + weak tree = what exactly?

You dont understand adrenaline either. You get 7 per rest, and on Vorpals you have a 33% chance to regen 1. 5%^.33% = ~1.6% chance per swing or projectile to regen. You can expect to regen 1 every 62.5 or so swings/attacks

[IronClan]

Why is this a Bard ONLY Tree?

Why can't Fighters, Rangers and Rogues swashbuckle without taking Bard Levels? Seemingly a heck of a lot of Bard levels too!


P.S. Will Repeater X-Bows be usable with this tree?
Because if not I cannot see anyone taking the Rune-Arm bonuses!

I suggested they make it a class or a fighter tree, they insisted on Bard... I HATE that this is a Bard tree, like Bard;s need to be kicked while they're down? the cynical part of me wonders if that wasn't because they know Fighter players would have raged against having a flavor tree instead of a DPS tree.

[TeacherSyn]

I like.

I recall the Swashbuckler as used in the Neverwinter Nights 2 game. It was quite fun to play in their original campaign but fared poorly in its expansions.

That said, it looks to give love to rapiers and more cheer to the thrown weapon options. Looking forward to seeing more about this one.

[jakeelala]

The wording is unclear, and will be adjusted on our end. Here's a slightly clearer version:


While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

These bonuses act like Rogue Knife Specialization for any stacking purposes, and do not stack with Rogue Knife Specialization itself (as they are both Competence bonuses).

What about halfing racial competence boost with thrown?
What about improved critical?
What about Overwhelming Critical?
What about Kensei?

[Delacroix21]

The wording is unclear, and will be adjusted on our end. Here's a slightly clearer version:


While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

These bonuses act like Rogue Knife Specialization for any stacking purposes, and do not stack with Rogue Knife Specialization itself (as they are both Competence bonuses).

All throwing weapon crit range enhancements are currently bugged and don't work at all, does this mean its being fixed?

[ArkoHighStar]

Adrenalines are one shot deals, do you really propose that a few per rest one shot attacks in an ED make this tree viable? You can get high crit range and multipliers with TWF and THF and Druids can get Doublestrike very high.

Remember this tree MUST COMPENSATE FOR LACKING THF and TWF damage. It's very roughly HALF the DPS of those styles from the get go... so not only must it CATCH UP it must compete with the likes of Shuricannon's and Centered Kensei's or be relegated to flavor toons.

I am not adverse to flavor toons, I have my own stable of failed experiments, gimps, semi-gimps, surprisingly effective; but still gimps, and etc. you can bring your flavor toon to my LFM or Raid any time, however a lot of people are not as laid back as I am. And a LOT of people want the Bard to get buffed into being relevant again... this tree as it stands does not do that. It also fails to be "deadly" as a swashbuckler's main archetypical "Raison d'être" is swift lethality... this tree proposes one handed sawing down of 50,000hp oak trees. with d6 base a couple [W]'s and single 15-20X2 thunderforged weapon with a buckler in the off hand doing not a lot.

Let me see if I can summerize the hurdles:
Bard class is way behind for melee (feats, enhancements)
This tree doesn't even compensate for the loss of DSP to TWF or THF
This tree doesn't compensate for the loss of DPS due to Bard class

Weak melee class + weak combat style + weak tree = what exactly?

want this




get this

[Cardtrick]

The wording is unclear, and will be adjusted on our end. Here's a slightly clearer version:


While Swashbuckling, the following weapons receive Competence bonuses to their critical profiles:
Dagger, Shortsword, Throwing Dagger: +1 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Light Mace, Sickle, Dart, Shuriken, Throwing Axe, Throwing Hammer: +2 Threat Range, +1 Multiplier
Kukri, Rapier: +1 Multiplier
Handaxe: +2 Range
Light Pick: +1 Range

These bonuses act like Rogue Knife Specialization for any stacking purposes, and do not stack with Rogue Knife Specialization itself (as they are both Competence bonuses).

Thanks for the response. Definitely weaker for splashed builds than it initially sounded, though better for pures. I do like that this no longer seems to eliminate the benefits of weapons that have innately enhanced critical profiles, which the first description definitely seemed like it would.

Overall the tree seems like it's fairly powerful considered in a vacuum -- but really weak when you consider everything else you have to give up in order to benefit from it (not least of which is TWFing or THFing).

[jakeelala]

What about halfing racial competence boost with thrown?
What about improved critical?
What about Overwhelming Critical?
What about Kensei?

Also am i reading correctly that throwing hammers and axes are going to become 16-20x4 with Improved Critical?

Thats very compelling.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I suggested they make it a class or a fighter tree, they insisted on Bard... I HATE that this is a Bard tree, like Bard;s need to be kicked while they're down? the cynical part of me wonders if that wasn't because they know Fighter players would have raged against having a flavor tree instead of a DPS tree.

I'm actually kind of glad for that. If Turbine saves all of their hate for Bards, then the rest of the classes at least have a shot at being good and we'll just know what class to avoid.

[jakeelala]

All throwing weapon crit range enhancements are currently bugged and don't work at all, does this mean its being fixed?

I would say 99% chance yes

[Teh_Troll]

want this




get this

Excellent.

[IronClan]

You dont understand adrenaline either. You get 7 per rest, and on Vorpals you have a 33% chance to regen 1. 5%^.33% = ~1.6% chance per swing or projectile to regen. You can expect to regen 1 every 62.5 or so swings/attacks

The ability you're talking about is Fury Eternal, and getting an extra 1 shot every X large number of swings from an un-swashbuckler related ED is NOT making Swashbuckler a good tree. Which is the point no?

I took the liberty of not belaboring the details because I like to assume most people here are up to speed on it, and because it is tedious to constantly add such details just to "cover my bases" because someone will invariably jump on an unimportant omission.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Excellent.

No. you don't get to post in this thread. We were already trolled by the OP.

[ArkoHighStar]

No. you don't get to post in this thread. We were already trolled by the OP.

I was almost wishing it was April 1st, and this was one giant troll by Turbine, but I am not that lucky

[jakeelala]

The ability you're talking about is Fury Eternal, and getting an extra 1 shot every X large number of swings from an un-swashbuckler related ED is NOT making Swashbuckler a good tree. Which is the point no?

I took the liberty of not belaboring the details because I like to assume most people here are up to speed on it, and because it is tedious to constantly add such details just to "cover my bases" because someone will invariably jump on an unimportant omission.

The way you described Adrenalines working was materially different to how it actually works, both in relation to MaddMatt's earlier point, and your own in the post responding to his that I responded to.

It's not a dig, it's a clarification. Some of us believe details matter. Matt was suggesting this build would regen adrenalines VERY fast. He was wrong about that, because they regen about 20x slower than he was suggesting.

However, they do regen. Which is materially different than you suggesting they don't. This build would presumably have a high rate of attack with new one weapon fighting feats and close to 100% doublestrike. It would regen adrenalines potentially faster than a THF build, though that's a is not a given depending on the new feats.

When you make a mistake or a material omission, and someone simply corrects you without prejudice, you should either just move on, or say thank you. Not argue with their motivation in making the correction, constructively.

[Ralmeth]

Are you going to have new one-handed attack animations, so your character looks like they are fencing (ex. a lunge)? Also, are you planning on musketeer outfits and hats, etc, that one can buy in the store? If so, I will be TRing my main into a swashbuckler

[Nibor]

We’re working on creating a line of Single-Weapon Fighting Feats, similar in power and scope to Two-Weapon and Two-Handed Fighting, tentatively giving some Dodge and Armor Piercing (ignoring enemy Fortification.)

Consider that most of the existing archetypes that would be using a single-weapon non-thrower are very short on feats - Paladin S&B Sacred Defenders, Weapon+orb Eldritch Knights, and now Swashbucklers as well. The primary exception I see is Stalwart-based S&B Fighters. Perhaps instead of a line of feats, consolidate into a single, powerful feat? They should trigger anytime using a melee one-handed weapon in the primary hand and a non-weapon in the off-hand; any shield should work for it so our S&B tanks can use it meaningfully.

Also, the SWF feat(s) need to create DPS, much like TWF and THF, but in a unique way. Adding Armor Piercing is nice but not nearly enough and in some cases completely irrelevant. Since doublestrike appears to be the current improvement looking at the Sacred and Stalwart trees, the feat line should build on that. At the least adding meaningful levels of doublestrike. More interestingly, and probably a way to help the SWFs catch up in DPS, would be to have the SWF feat also create some way of translating doublestrike into a potential 3rd and beyond strike. Imagine something like a double strike attack being allowed to proc its own doublestrike, up to a maximum of Character Lvl/5 strikes.

[Mryal]

This is the crazy part: someone is going to accuse you of proposing something "over powered" when the truth is that +60% is still 20% behind a TWF's 1.8 attacks AND THATS IF THEY WERE USING PLAIN +1 WEAPONS... the reality is the TWF has .8 more attacks to get on crit (Dragons Edge and Crippling flames) procs, more bursts, more Heartseekers, more Lightinging II strikes, more neg levels' and stat drains, righteous red augment procs etc. etc.

This fundamental flaw in SWF has not been addressed by the Dev's or responded to when brought up on the PC forums. All putting a buckler in your off hand does is nearly half your DPS potential...

I actualy toned down the values thinking id get a ton of people saying OP OP OP.Comparing to TWF is.Idk, unfair? TWF has always been way ahead of any other fighting style (excluding bows with furyshot since that is bug exploiting and i do not consider it valid).But you bring a good point, all chances to proc effects should be higher on one handed fighter - but then again, the chances to proc effects should have been higher on THF aswell, and its been a long long time that the game has been out and this never happened.Truth is there has never, at any point, been any balance between TWF and any other fighting style.
Peraphs now is the time right? All weapon effect chances to proc with 50% more chance on one handed fighting, and seeker like effects with 50% more aswell.Note that im picking a lowe value because one handed fighting implies that youre using something usefull in the other hand (like a shield?).

Consider that most of the existing archetypes that would be using a single-weapon non-thrower are very short on feats - Paladin S&B Sacred Defenders, Weapon+orb Eldritch Knights, and now Swashbucklers as well. The primary exception I see is Stalwart-based S&B Fighters. Perhaps instead of a line of feats, consolidate into a single, powerful feat? They should trigger anytime using a melee one-handed weapon in the primary hand and a non-weapon in the off-hand; any shield should work for it so our S&B tanks can use it meaningfully.

Also, the SWF feat(s) need to create DPS, much like TWF and THF, but in a unique way. Adding Armor Piercing is nice but not nearly enough and in some cases completely irrelevant. Since doublestrike appears to be the current improvement looking at the Sacred and Stalwart trees, the feat line should build on that. At the least adding meaningful levels of doublestrike. More interestingly, and probably a way to help the SWFs catch up in DPS, would be to have the SWF feat also create some way of translating doublestrike into a potential 3rd and beyond strike. Imagine something like a double strike attack being allowed to proc its own doublestrike, up to a maximum of Character Lvl/5 strikes.

One handed fighting seems to be a defensive way of fighting (assuming shield user).Peraphs something on the lines of counter atacking when Dodge chance happens (in addition to what i alredy suggested above) would be a different way of producing dps.To shield users this would be a slight boost, to Swashbuckler bards it could be significant - but then again even swashbucklers would still have a max 30% dodge.Peraphs its time to replace that +5 dodge cap on swashbuckler to a 'you no longer have a dodge cap'.
Its odd that theres no Parry and counter attack on swashbuckler enhancements alredy, isnt it supposed to be a duelist?

[bbqzor]

Hi! We’re writing to give you an early look at the Swashbuckler, an upcoming Bard Prestige Enhancement line coming to DDO with Update 22.

Okay, cool.

A major focus of Swashbuckler is a new style of fighting in DDO: Single-Weapon Fighting. We’re working on creating a line of Single-Weapon Fighting Feats, similar in power and scope to Two-Weapon and Two-Handed Fighting, tentatively giving some Dodge and Armor Piercing (ignoring enemy Fortification.) The Swashbuckler also supports Thrown Weapon builds.

Why, why, why... this baffles me. The devs constantly state they dont have time to work on things, then stuff like this pops up with no conceivable reason for being beyond becoming a time sink. Bleh.

We believe having the Swashbuckler focus on Single-Weapon Fighting makes for interesting build options, both for pure Bards and multi-classed characters. We’ve also worked to make sure that players can spend a moderate amount of points in the Swashbuckler tree and receive good benefits, even if the build isn’t focusing on Single-Weapon Fighting.

Well, you guys also believe that Storms Eye and Tantrum are completely acceptable so we shall see...

We’re hoping to find time to improve Warchanter and Spellsinger as well, although those improvements are likely more limited in scope, and those changes may end up delayed beyond the launch of Update 22.

Good. They need a pass, not critically, but one to polish up whats there. I hope we get a good window to provide feedback for this, as we are for swashbuckler.

Please take a look at the Swashbuckler, and give us your comments, general ideas, and larger reactions in addition to feedback on individual abilities. As usual, this is an early look, so details may change, including names, individual numbers, including AP costs, and any balance concerns (which we welcome your input on.)

Yep.

Core Abilities
1 AP, class level 1: Swift Strikes: Passive: +1% Dodge.
5 AP, class level 3: Swashbuckling: Defensive Stance: You gain 1% Doublestrike and Doubleshot as well as +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of the weapon in your main hand. Swashbuckling requires wielding a Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand, wielding a Buckler or nothing in your off hand, and wearing Light Armor or no armor. (Druids cannot Swashbuckle while in animal forms.)
Passive: In addition, while Swashbuckling, you gain +1 Damage, and the weapon in your main hand gains a Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier that makes it x3 (ignoring other bonuses) and Critical Threat Range that makes it 18-20 (ignoring other bonuses).
10 AP, class level 6: Uncanny Dodge: You gain the Uncanny Dodge feat. Swashbuckling grants an additional 1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, and +1 Damage.
20 AP, class level 12: Panache: While Swashbuckling, you gain +1% Dodge, 1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, +1 Damage, +1 Reflex Saving Throw, and the weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus.
30 AP, class level 18: Roll with the Punches: While Swashbuckling, you gain +5 Insight Bonus to Character Dodge Cap, the Slippery Mind feat, +1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, and +1 Damage.
41 AP, class level 20: Evasive Maneuvers: +2 CHA, +2 DEX.While Swashbuckling, you gain the Evasion feat, +1% Doublestrike, 1% Doubleshot, +1 Damage, and the weapon in your main hand gains an additional +1 to its Enhancement bonus.

1: Weak, especially since Bard 1 is an almost unheard of dip and the ability is called Swift Strikes but does nothing for striking. Have this add the 1% doublestrike/shot and +1 damage as well, or change the name to something less attack oriented and have it add +1 AC and Ref. Honestly I like the 2nd option better, as 1 dodge, ac, and ref is a fitting start to the class while being less prone to taking a dip over.
3: This is cool. It opens up some unique character options and some good itemization direction (assuming you guys actually follow up with another buckler to go with the one which exists and isnt even available year round, and one that isnt terrible by player standards please).
6: Nice choice, same level some other classes get it and cheap enough other bards might want it.
12: Nice stance increaser. Again, Id add +1 AC here. A guy trying to be a dex focused melee with one weapon and a buckler on a d6 hp class needs some defense too.
18: Again nice but the bonus to dodge cap needs to also raise armor max dex bonus. There are few light armors which would allow 30 dex to use the cap increase, and I do not think the class should push people into cloth armor to utilize its unique dodge modifiers. Have it add +5 to max dex, AND the other bonuses... so its 5 more dodge no matter what swashbuckler gear youre in, but the unique part is it also raises the cap if youre there.
20: Nice capstone. Holds up well against multiclassing, as well as adding a really nice option for other 20 bards out there. This is a keeper.

Overall, its 7% dodge, 5% doublestrike, +3 enhancement and 18-20 x3 weapon, +5 damage, +1 ref, +5 dodge cap, +2 dex and cha, uncanny click, slippery mind, and evasion. That is a fair listing. The armor/dex/dodge change is necessary I think, to avoid forcing cloth armor on the class, but otherwise even as it sits its not bad. Please catch that dodge/armor issue though.

Tier One
On Your Toes: +1/2/3 Dodge
Blow By Blow:
Multiselector: Melee or Thrown Attack: Make an attack with +(1/2/3) critical threat range that deals extra Sonic damage, and reduces your threat with nearby enemies. This sonic damage scales with Spell Power.
Insults
Multiselector: Scathing Words: [/B]Activate to reduce the Fortitude saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown); Cutting Jibes: Activate to reduce the Will saves of nearby enemies by 3.(Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown); Appalling Diatribe: Activate to reduce the Reflex saves of nearby enemies by 3. (Costs Spell Points, moderate cooldown)
Tavern Shanties: +1/2/3 Bard Songs.
Limber Up: +(1/2/3) to Balance, Jump, Swim, and Tumble. 3rd Rank: When you Tumble, you gain +3 to saves against traps for 6 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

One your toes is a good T1 the class will need to work on reaching that 30 dodge cap. Blow by Blow is likewise nice, its a good match for bard and swashbuckler. Both of those are great.Tavern Shanties, meh, I guess all the bard trees should have a songs thing. Itd be nice if tier 3 granted +10% duration as well (and if the other ones could get similar). Song duration tends to be more appealing that more songs, but not every tree has duration mechanics... that might be a nice inclusion.

Insults is less obvious, it really depends on the cooldown, the range/radius, and cost. Its a nice ability, but if its too expensive or too slow it wont get used much. Also, depending on the area or number of targets, it may or may not be useful. Basically, if its less effective than hypno, its failed. So try to scale it at least to that level (10 sp, 2s cd)... yea it can hit other saves but it also requires a level of bard and likely 3ap (1 for core, 2 for this Im assuming since its not a tiered ability). If Im going to spend 3 ap, it shouldnt be worse than the available alternatives.

Limber Up is just terrible. I realize most trees have some kind of skill mod thing with a benefit on the 3rd rank, but no ones going to use this one (not that anyone uses the others either). Adding a cd to the tumble means you cant use it to move through traps in succession, and the only other common use might be for something like tumbling out of the way of the fire rings in Fire on Thunder Peak. Either remove the cooldown but keep the limit to traps (so its a dodge traps thing), or keep the cooldown but remove the trap limit (so its just +3 ref when tumbling once every 12 sec). And honestly, that second option sounds about a million times more swashbucklery. Diving out of the way of stuff at the last second and getting +3 ref for doing it on a class that eventually gets evasion is 100x cooler than sinking 3 ap to get a bonus on traps which are navigable by a single tumble which you will probably overcome without using tumbling anyhow. So yea, remove the trap limit please =p.

Tier Two
En Pointe: Melee Attack: Make an attack with +4/8/12 critical threat range, but -1 Critical Multiplier. Costs Spell Points to activate.
Deflect Arrows: You gain the benefits of the Deflect Arrows feat, knocking aside one incoming projectile that would have struck you every 6/4/2 seconds. (Antireq Tempest Deflect Arrows)
Aqua Vitae: Gain 3 Temporary Hit Points per Bard Level for 9 seconds. Heal 1d6 HP every two seconds while the temporary hitpoints persist. (Long cooldown).
Sword Dance: While Swashbuckling, when enemies miss you in combat, you deal 1d10/1d12/1d20 Sonic Damage. Scales with Spell Power. (This triggers off of various miss chances, including Dodge, Armor Class, Displacement, etc.)
Multiselector:
Action Boost: Doublestrike: You gain +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to Doublestrike for 20 seconds. Usable 5 times per rest.
Action Boost: Doubleshot: You gain +10/20/30% Action Boost bonus to Doubleshot for 20 seconds. Usable 5 times per rest.

En Pointe... if its like 1-3sp, okay, otherwise not really appealing. Im thinking of something similar to Divine Sacrifice, where using it hurts but only if you use it a lot over a quest rather than a couple of times when its opportune. If its like 5 or 10 or something... you can cast spells for that, one extra hits worth of damage (since its an automatic x2 crit via swashbulcker stance, or double damage) isnt valuable. Its just paying mana to auto generate your "on crit" effects. Just not worth that kind of cost.

Deflect Arrows... this thing working? For sure? Last time I tried it (admittedly years ago now) it was spotty, sometimes worked sometimes not. If its fixed again, cool, fitting and helpful.

Aqua Vitae is terrible. Leveling up its too few hp to survive even one hit, let alone several, and at cap its no better. The heal is so slow (3.5 hp per 2 sec, or 1.75 hp per second) it would take even a noob level 3 guy off korthos something like a minute to heal up. So that means its an out of combat heal, its too fragile and slow to use in combat. Bards have heals, and have enough UMD to wand/scroll easily. Even a bard splash affords this (cure light, wand access, umd access). This ability is misplaced, out of combat other things are better and cost no action points. Changing it to an instant heal is no better, so the ability should receive a rework. Perhaps something like life shield (10% chance to proc 3 temp hp per bard level when hit in combat) or something. Then it kinda works with Boast from Warchanter maybe. And meshes well with the Sword Dance (temp hp for you if hit, sonic dmg for them if missed, follow up with nana nana booboo and youre swashbuckling with the best of them). Or pull it for something else. But as is, this one doesnt pass.

Sword Dance is cool, finally a guard which might not fail. BE SURE that it does NOT break fascinate. Like log in a bard, go make a train of guys in dev-invincible mode, and spam fascinate to BE SURE it does NOT break it. If fascinated mobs in the middle of the last swing hit you, miss, take guard damage, and wake up except a rage letter. Thats just not acceptable. Thanks.

The action boost is good. Not much else to say, its a nice option. Fitting, balanced, good choice.

Tier Three
Elegant Footwork: When enemies miss you while Swashbuckling, they have a small chance to be knocked down with no save. Cooldown: 12 seconds.
Swashbuckling Style:
Dashing Scoundrel: While Swashbuckling with nothing in your off hand, you gain +1 Damage per 5 Character levels and 7% Doublestrike/Doubleshot.
Skirmisher: While Swashbuckling with a Buckler in your off hand, you gain 7% Dodge.
Arcane Marauder: You can now Swashbuckle with an Orb in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Magical Training.
Cannoneer: You can now Swashbuckle with a Rune Arm in your off hand. (Does not count as a Buckler for Buckler-specific abilities). Requires Runearm Proficiency.
Resonant Arms: While Swashbuckling, the Finesseable or Thrown weapon in your main hand deals an additional 2d6/4d6/6d6 Sonic Damage on critical hits.This Sonic damage scales with spellpower.
Fast Movement: You run faster. Additional Bard levels increases the speed bonus.
CHA/DEX

Elegant Footwork sounds lame. Im assuming that its something (made up numbers inc) like 5% chance to knock a guy down when he hits you, but then 12s cd happens after it fires? Thats just so minor given the number of swings that come your way, especially on a class like bard with decent CC abilities. Id prefer an AC/PRR choice here with the same name. This is a class likely to be subject to a lot of melee attacks. It needs some defense too, and there wasnt a lot in the core besides dodge. So that leaves mitigation. Try "Elegant Footwork: 1/2/3 tiers, +5prr per tier". Boring, perhaps, but necessary to survive ddo nowadays.

Swashbuckling Style is a great idea but these are not even remotely balanced. Stacking +4 damage and 7% doublestrike is not the same as 7% dodge. The Dodge choice should add +1 AC and PRR for each 5 levels too. It needs to help bring bucklers back up to where shields are now. Seriously, look at how few people use shields. No ones going to give up that kind of offense over a buckler. Try to make bucklers appealing for what they are, the defensive choice here, and that means adding AC and PRR. Frankly if it was me Id make the buckler add Ref save too... since the AC is minor on most builds and 4 prr is minor too. But if you add in Ref, maybe shield deflection via PDK... now youre getting somewhere. Somewhere that can compare with stacking dps modifiers.

Arcane Marauder and Cannoneer... nice. My first reaction to the core stance was to ask for these options and here they are. Winner. But, not counting it as a buckler... sad panda. Theres what 2 buckler abilities in the whole tree? Sigh. I think having the choice to select them if you take these, to allow gear swaps and variety while playing, is hardly dangerous. Id prefer the choice, rather than just getting denied off the bat. I mean I get its tied to the next tier but may make them not exclusive so you can mix and match?

Resonant Arms is awesome. This is exactly the kind of ability thats fun to see, great!

Fast Movement, would like a scale on this one (hopefully its not actually as good as monk, simply because I dont think thats fair to monks) but its good. If its as much as barbarian, it would be worth it. Anything more would be gravy. Since this sort of thing is very intensive to test ourselves, please provide us what kind of data you were thinking of (like 1% per 3 bard levels is too low, 2% speed per bard level is too high, does it stack with striding like "fast movement" does, etc).

And Cha/Dex, well yes. We knew this would be there, good choice of stats.

Tier Four
On the Mark: Passive +1/2/3 to attack rolls to confirm critical hits and damage on critical hits (before weapon multipliers)
Multiselector: Swashbuckling Style II
Slap in the Face: While Swashbuckling and wielding nothing in your off hand, activate to deal 1 Bludgeon damage. Damaged enemies can't cast spells for 3/6/9 seconds and are stunned for one second (Perform + d20 saves for the Stun). 18 second cooldown. Costs 10 Spell Points.
Low Blow: While Swashbuckling and wielding a Buckler in your off hand, activate to perform a shield bash with +2 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier. On hit, briefly knock down affected enemy (Perform + d20 saves for the Knockdown). Costs 10 Spell Points.
Loud & Clear:Toggle: While Swashbuckling with an Orb in your off hand, +10 Sonic Spell Power.
Tune Arm/Music Box: Toggle: While Swashbuckling with a Rune Arm in your off hand, your Rune Arm Weapon Imbue deals an additional 1d6 Sonic damage.
Battering Barrage: (2 AP, 2 ranks) While Swashbuckling, critical hits inflict Destruction/Improved Destruction.
Wind at my Back: +1 to the Enhancement Bonus of your equipped Throwing Weapons, plus an additional +1 for every five Bard levels.
CHA/DEX

On the Mark might appeal to some, but I find these kinds of enhancements lackluster. Especially for T4. With a permanent 18-20 x3 (which Im assuming goes to 15-20 x3 with imp crit feat) its at least meaningful. Its less effective (and fun) than resonant arms though, and a higher tier. Not that I want resonant arms changed at all (frankly, its finally the bard sonic crit thingy that should have always been there!) but maybe this can get a bit of help.

Slap in the Face is a bit hard to gauge without the "one handed" feat lines out there. I will say that doing 1 damage is funny but ultimately meaningless, preventing spellcasting for 3 seconds is likewise meaningless, and a one second stun is pretty meaningless. Global cooldowns and game lag make it very very difficult to do something like use "En Point" in that window, and thats exactly the kind of thing this ability should encourage you to set up. That said, the DC calculation, cooldown, and sp cost are fair for the concept. Id change it to "you do 1 blundgeoning damage plus your damage modifiers" (so like, a melee weapon roll of 1, plus your bonuses, makes swashbuckling stance and bard songs relevant on the stuff youre paying AP for), "prevent casting for 6/9/12s" (so its still not perma casting block but gives you that 6s minimum window to like cast a spell or do something with lag etc, up to 12s if you invest which is enough to perhaps hide from a dot refresh or something), and "stuns for 1/2/3s with a perform+d20 dc" starts where you guys did, but actually becomes useable as a setup move if you invest ranks. Same idea, same ballpark, but actually useable. Win.

Low Blow is just not appealing, even compared to the test version of slap in the face (which again, go with my version!). Even if it was a guaranteed critical buckler bash with a trip, itd be a tough sell. My suggestion would be to change it to +1/2/3 crit range/multiplier, with a +1/2/3 second stun with a perform+d20 dc, just like slap in the face. That way a 20 x2 buckler goes up to 17-20 x5 on this attack (average of double damage, but chance for a nice spike when in use), and the cc portion is meaningful and more fitting (dunno many buckler attacks that trip a guy, but plenty that might stun one). Still a bit weak, maybe it should like add +6/9/12 seconds of a 4 AC/PRR boost as well (like, you smash with your buckler then get all parry crazy for a few afterwards). Guess Id just like to see bucklers offer some defense choices too, and it parallels the 6/9/12 second no-cast defense of the above ability. Parallel is good, choices are good, ones that fit roles are good. Tune this up for the win.

Loud and Clear, change to +10/20/30 sonic spellpower and put it on a tiered system like the others. Bards (and anyone really) dont really get a lot of choices for sonic sp.

Tune Arm/Music Box, change to +1d4/d8/d12 sonic damage on a tiered system.

Battering Barrage is an okay ability... but it doesnt really make sense. I mean bards have probably the easiest access to +atk mods in the game, and little precision damage (couple of crit mods thats it). Sinking 4 AP into this at T4 is something I really dont see many people doing. Maybe each tier can also add +1d6 damage to constructs, kind of like blasting chime (and all those other sonic vs castle wall type things in dnd) work. So like, its nice to help people get crits still, since the class is trying to highlight crits, but also your sonic power pwns some constructs. Like a weaker version of Wrack construct, but always on and partially works on non-constructs. If you link it to resonant arms below it, thats another way to add something here... like resonant arms is +sonic on crit, maybe this could be +1d6 sonic on hit or something. Just throwing out ideas.

Wind at my Back is nice for throwers, assuming it stacks with all the other mods out there now (swashbuckler, enchant weapons, arcane past lives, etc). If it does, hey cool fun option even if a bit underpowered.

And Cha/Dex again, nods.

Tier Five
Thread the Needle: While Swashbuckling, +5 Damage while the Precision feat is active.
Exploit Weaknesses:While Swashbuckling, every time you damage an enemy but do not critically hit, you gain a stacking +1 Insight Bonus to Critical Threat Range until you successfully critically hit.

Thread the Needle ... can you use this with swashbuckling? Not a stupid question, since Swashbuckling is a defensive stance and precision is a combat stance, I just want to be sure that the new stances are all coded to play right with this. And only this. So its not like swashbuckling allows rage and power attack and everything, but does allow precision. Assuming you guys have your ducks in a row here, this is a nice ability and actually probably worth the feat investment. Kudos.

Exploit Weakness is a bit lackluster, especially for a T5. Id like to see it also add +1 insight to damage. So if you go a long stretch without critting, when you do its bigger. It would cap at something like +13-14 damage (with imp crit and swashbuckling its a 15-20 situation, 1 misses, so without multiple 1s in a row thats where it stops before autocrit), which is only +30-40 damage on a x3 weapon, or 1-2 damage per hit. Adding 1-2 damage per hit for a T5 is more than fair, considering it is also going to give you more crits which likely have other effects. But you know what? This version is much more fun, and for 1-2 damage a swing, how can you not do that. Just saying.

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Over all, this is actually a fairly appealing tree. Some tune ups are needed, as noted. But it adds some great functionality for bards, has some multiclass appeal, lacks too many low hanging fruits and has strong higher level core abilities to balance multiclassing, is flavorful, and has meaningful abilities. One concern is that without the "one handed" feats its hard to actually look at it from a "build" perspective, meaning some of my feedback here could change (perhaps significantly) later. Another is that the class, on its own, has almost nothing to mitigate getting hit, no prr. Just lots of dodge, which makes it dangerous to play (d6 hp class, prone to spike damage, thats a recipe to blow up). Making Aqua Vitae proc temp hp could help, as would adding PRR to the buckler choices giving bards the chance to swap in a shield for he/ee or something.

Its a good first preview and on the right track. I hope you find my input helpful and take some of it to heart. Cheers.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I'd say that each core ability should give Sonic spell power. Perhaps +5 for each core selected, with perhaps a bigger bonus, +15? for staying pure. Or maybe +1 for each AP spent in the tree (like others).

Otherwise, I'm intrigued by this. Can we get some more details on the Single-weapon style feats? While I agree they have to be equal in power in to THF and TWF, but they should also offer something else to make them unique and worthwhile dps wise, otherwise I'm afraid people will stick with what we already have because they're better.

Varg, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, give true builds a much needed "bump"

As for this thread's content, I'm liking it.