Best Race for An Assassin Rogue?

[TheLegendOfAra]

He's right about that, its like a DC caster, you need to get all the DCs you can possibly get for your assassinate. Better be fully geared to be ready for EE content.

Just to be clear on the Shadar Kai ring, only a Shadar Kai can equip it. The idea on having it during your first life is to boost your low DCs since you don't have all the build points or the gear.

Well, I feel exceptionally dumb now. I didn't notice that the Iconic gear was race restricted to that iconic race.
That really puts a damper on things.

[SirValentine]

Hmm, I had never considered Sun Elf at all. I know the get +2Int, but that's pretty much the only benefit correct?

+4 to Int, same as Drow, via +2 starting and +2 from racial enhancements.

The other benefit is 4 extra built points over Drow. I don't think that's trivial.

And having to buy a +1LR heart really sucks.

Yes.

[TheLegendOfAra]

+4 to Int, same as Drow, via +2 starting and +2 from racial enhancements.
The other benefit is 4 extra built points over Drow. I don't think that's trivial.

Hmm good point. More build points would be very nice.

[CThruTheEgo]

Hmm good point. More build points would be very nice.

It's very likely that you'll end up with the same starting stats regardless of drow or morninglord, especially if you want improved sneak attack, epic toughness, and max int. Morninglord starts with 2 less dex than drow, so those 4 extra points will likely go into dex to end up with a comparable amount. So I'm not sure morninglord really has any advantage.

[Nightmanis]

It's very likely that you'll end up with the same starting stats regardless of drow or morninglord, especially if you want improved sneak attack, epic toughness, and max int. Morninglord starts with 2 less dex than drow, so those 4 extra points will likely go into dex to end up with a comparable amount. So I'm not sure morninglord really has any advantage.

It doesn't. Drow always actually had 32pt build from the start, it's just 4 points were already spent for you. This became advantageous if you were building toward one of those stats. In her case drow is the best race to use unless you absolutely do not want to level to 15 normally.

[CThruTheEgo]

It doesn't. Drow always actually had 32pt build from the start, it's just 4 points were already spent for you. This became advantageous if you were building toward one of those stats. In her case drow is the best race to use unless you absolutely do not want to level to 15 normally.

Agreed. And drow will actually end up with better starting stats due to the 10 starting cha instead of 8 on morninglord, but UMD will be more than enough even without this so it doesn't really matter.

[Coyopa]

Well, here is the build for my 3rd life level 28 halfling rogue.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 27
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             12                    15
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence         16                    33
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma              8                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               4                    43
Bluff                 3                    35
Concentration         3                    14
Diplomacy             3                    34
Disable Device        7                    47
Haggle               -1                    11
Heal                 -1                    10
Hide                  8                    50
Intimidate           -1                    11
Jump                  5                    40
Listen               -1                    13
Move Silently         8                    48
Open Lock             8                    43
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                    24
Search                7                    45
Spellcraft            3                    21
Spot                  3                    34
Swim                  1                    34
Tumble                8                    43
Use Magic Device      3                    33

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Lethality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Deadly Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassinate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Charming (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

Built for maximum sneak damage, he uses epic Midnight Greetings in part for the improved deception. He also has a Seal of House Avithoul which applies a 2nd chance to proc improved deception on the eMG and a single chance to proc it on his off-hand weapon. This is also why I took Precision as a feat. His total fortification bypass against everything (except constructs) is 50%. Against constructs this rises to 80% because I swap in epic Blasting Chime. It used to be 110%, but I dropped Wracking Strike in favor of more points spent in the halfling tree. (25% from Precision, 10% from Opportunist, 15% from Shadowdancer) He is able to sneak attack even undead (except really powerful ones, like epic Wiz-King) and, with the improved deception procs, can do so even when he has aggro.

I invested heavily into jump because of the changes they made to how jump while sneaking works. For those who might not know, sneaking applies a -20 modifier to jump and tumble. I have got his unbuffed jump to exactly 60, which gives him 40 while sneaking (and I am sneaking most of the time).

At level 13, I had extra skill points to spend. I opted to spend these on swim because it is lots of fun to swim fast. You can obviously change that to whatever it is you might prefer. The tomes I have listed are what my rogue actually has.

As far as other enhancements go, I opted not to take Killer because I didn't see much benefit from it and something had to give for me to get the enhancements from Mechanic and Acrobat that I wanted. With gear on, his MS and Hide are both 82. Bluff is 62. Diplomacy is somewhere in the neighborhood of his Bluff skill. UMD is 47 (this includes a conc opp green steel item for +6 cha skills). His charisma itself is just 18, as is his Wisdom. I can't remember his assassinate DC off the top of my head (62, I think), nor his saves. Dodge is around 13% and dodge cap is still 25%. I took Targeting Sights from Mechanic to give me some ranged ability when I need it. He has an array of light crossbows as well as an epic Noxious Fang, which is actually my preferred ranged weapon.

He has a ML 25 Jorgundal's Collar, which is why I did not take Blinding Speed for his level 27 feat. Gear gives him blindness immunity, fear immunity, 40 acid and lightning resist, 30 cold and fire resist, a number of guards, and the other usual suspects, such as deathblock, ghostly, and manslayer. If you want me to post up the gear he is wearing, I can get that up, too. He likely isn't geared for EE, but you might find it interesting. Who knows?

Anyway, take all that information do what you want with it. Good luck with your rogue and I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine!

[TheLegendOfAra]

Well, here is the build for my 3rd life level 28 halfling rogue.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Rogue \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 352
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 27
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             12                    15
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         16                    19
Intelligence         16                    33
Wisdom                8                    11
Charisma              8                    11

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 11
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 11
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 11
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+5 Tome of Intelligence used at level 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               4                    43
Bluff                 3                    35
Concentration         3                    14
Diplomacy             3                    34
Disable Device        7                    47
Haggle               -1                    11
Heal                 -1                    10
Hide                  8                    50
Intimidate           -1                    11
Jump                  5                    40
Listen               -1                    13
Move Silently         8                    48
Open Lock             8                    43
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                3                    24
Search                7                    45
Spellcraft            3                    21
Spot                  3                    34
Swim                  1                    34
Tumble                8                    43
Use Magic Device      3                    33

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 7 (Rogue)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Opportunist


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Halfling Luck (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Halfling - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Halfling - Cunning (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Halfling - Guile (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife in the Darkness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Dagger in the Back (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassin's Trick (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Nimbleness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Lethality (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Deadly Shadow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Stealthy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Damage Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Accuracy (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Execute (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Critical Damage (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Assassinate (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Measure the Foe (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Assassin (Rog) - Knife Specialization (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Tanglefoot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Targeting Sights (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Wand and Scroll Mastery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Intelligence (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Staff Control (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Charming (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Faster Sneaking (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Thief-Acrobat (Rog) - Subtlety (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Improved Sneak Attack


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Epic Damage Reduction


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Elusive Target

Built for maximum sneak damage, he uses epic Midnight Greetings in part for the improved deception. He also has a Seal of House Avithoul which applies a 2nd chance to proc improved deception on the eMG and a single chance to proc it on his off-hand weapon. This is also why I took Precision as a feat. His total fortification bypass against everything (except constructs) is 50%. Against constructs this rises to 80% because I swap in epic Blasting Chime. It used to be 110%, but I dropped Wracking Strike in favor of more points spent in the halfling tree. (25% from Precision, 10% from Opportunist, 15% from Shadowdancer) He is able to sneak attack even undead (except really powerful ones, like epic Wiz-King) and, with the improved deception procs, can do so even when he has aggro.

I invested heavily into jump because of the changes they made to how jump while sneaking works. For those who might not know, sneaking applies a -20 modifier to jump and tumble. I have got his unbuffed jump to exactly 60, which gives him 40 while sneaking (and I am sneaking most of the time).

At level 13, I had extra skill points to spend. I opted to spend these on swim because it is lots of fun to swim fast. You can obviously change that to whatever it is you might prefer. The tomes I have listed are what my rogue actually has.

As far as other enhancements go, I opted not to take Killer because I didn't see much benefit from it and something had to give for me to get the enhancements from Mechanic and Acrobat that I wanted. With gear on, his MS and Hide are both 82. Bluff is 62. Diplomacy is somewhere in the neighborhood of his Bluff skill. UMD is 47 (this includes a conc opp green steel item for +6 cha skills). His charisma itself is just 18, as is his Wisdom. I can't remember his assassinate DC off the top of my head (62, I think), nor his saves. Dodge is around 13% and dodge cap is still 25%. I took Targeting Sights from Mechanic to give me some ranged ability when I need it. He has an array of light crossbows as well as an epic Noxious Fang, which is actually my preferred ranged weapon.

He has a ML 25 Jorgundal's Collar, which is why I did not take Blinding Speed for his level 27 feat. Gear gives him blindness immunity, fear immunity, 40 acid and lightning resist, 30 cold and fire resist, a number of guards, and the other usual suspects, such as deathblock, ghostly, and manslayer. If you want me to post up the gear he is wearing, I can get that up, too. He likely isn't geared for EE, but you might find it interesting. Who knows?

Anyway, take all that information do what you want with it. Good luck with your rogue and I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I enjoy mine!

Thanks! I appreciate it.

Doesn't look to shady to me, although Epic DR seems a wasted feat to me.
And yeah, I can see a bunch of AP I could save from the halfling tree for more Rogue things on a Drow split, so that's good.

I wouldn't mind a gear set at all. I'm still a little behind the times so to speak on gear. I haven't really looked at any of the new stuff to heavily since Shadowfell hit since most of the named gear would never help my Ranger builds. Lol

[goodspeed]

go with whatever racial tree is most beneficial to you. Personally, I find a humans tree is still the most lucrative for all around builds with the other races being useful for very specific builds such as the dwarf for the near or pure survival barbarian.

[Viconiax]

So I'm looking forward to trying a couple Rogue lives, and I know for sure what I'm going to build for 2 of them, but the third one I want to try is just a pure 20 Rogue Assassin. Old school.

And while I get the general gist of how to build it feat wise, I'm kind of stumped as to what would be the best Race option.

Right now I'm considering:

Halfling
Shadar-Kai
Drow
Human

I'm really comfortable with Humans, and halfling just looks like it would be fun, not to mention a lot of the pure Assassins I've seen in the past were halflings... Shadar-Kai look pretty interesting, but their racial tree seems somewhat weak with the exception of the chain stuff and the cores.(Are chains even useful endgame?) Drow get the stat bonus' at the start which is really nice(As I am leaning towards an Int/Dex build), but aside from that the racial tree again seems kind of weak.

I'm really just looking for some advice, or just what you would go with and why.
I'm not sure that any of these would really change anything to much one way or another, except the Shadar-Kai and human splits.

Go drow Ara, I can help you make your build since you know me, all my chars are drow :P <3

But, back to the point:

As many stated above, as a drow, you will get the highest assassinate DC which in turn could help a lot if you're into EE (don't know if you still doing those, I haven't seen you in a while QQ)

Also, the stat that is useful for assassin is already provided to you by the racial bonus, int-dex, also cha for umd. You will also get racial bonus for short sword/rapier and nothing is hidden if you like to Zerg a lot.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Go drow Ara, I can help you make your build since you know me, all my chars are drow :P <3

But, back to the point:

As many stated above, as a drow, you will get the highest assassinate DC which in turn could help a lot if you're into EE (don't know if you still doing those, I haven't seen you in a while QQ)

Also, the stat that is useful for assassin is already provided to you by the racial bonus, int-dex, also cha for umd. You will also get racial bonus for short sword/rapier and nothing is hidden if you like to Zerg a lot.

Heh, I've never seen you make anything else. :3

I'm always into EE's. I'm just never at cap lately. All TR's and no endgame make Ara a cranky girl.

I'm liking the look of the racial bonus' while leveling, although I'm dreading having to farm shroud again to make some RadII rapiers/Shortswords. Lol

[CThruTheEgo]

I'm liking the look of the racial bonus' while leveling, although I'm dreading having to farm shroud again to make some RadII rapiers/Shortswords. Lol

Go with dual Rad2 daggers, you won't be sorry. With knife specialization and imp crit daggers have a 15-20x3 crit profile, compared to rapiers 15-20x2 and shortswords 17-20x2. Even with the drow weapon enhancements, daggers are still ahead because of the better crit profile. And they'll have the same crit range as rapiers, which means the same chance to blind opponents with a Rad2.

[Coyopa]

Thanks! I appreciate it.

Doesn't look to shady to me, although Epic DR seems a wasted feat to me.
And yeah, I can see a bunch of AP I could save from the halfling tree for more Rogue things on a Drow split, so that's good.

I wouldn't mind a gear set at all. I'm still a little behind the times so to speak on gear. I haven't really looked at any of the new stuff to heavily since Shadowfell hit since most of the named gear would never help my Ranger builds. Lol

You're welcome. His gear setup is a little behind and doesn't include Shadowfell gear. It's just I worked so freaking hard for it that I can't really bear to think about having to re-do it nearly completely. I'll send it to you this evening.

[TheLegendOfAra]

Go with dual Rad2 daggers, you won't be sorry. With knife specialization and imp crit daggers have a 15-20x3 crit profile, compared to rapiers 15-20x2 and shortswords 17-20x2. Even with the drow weapon enhancements, daggers are still ahead because of the better crit profile. And they'll have the same crit range as rapiers, which means the same chance to blind opponents with a Rad2.

You make a strong argument; I'll have to think more on it. Main reason I was looking at rapier/Shortswords is I'll get really good use of them on future Monk/Ranger lives. And I already have a set of litII longswords and MinII longswords that hardly get the use the mats it took to make them deserve. Lol

You're welcome. His gear setup is a little behind and doesn't include Shadowfell gear. It's just I worked so freaking hard for it that I can't really bear to think about having to re-do it nearly completely. I'll send it to you this evening.

Heh I can certainly understand those sentiments. Again, I really appreciate it.

[CThruTheEgo]

You make a strong argument; I'll have to think more on it. Main reason I was looking at rapier/Shortswords is I'll get really good use of them on future Monk/Ranger lives. And I already have a set of litII longswords and MinII longswords that hardly get the use the mats it took to make them deserve. Lol

Daggers are only slightly ahead of rapiers when you can first use GS, but they pull further ahead as you get higher in level and add more to your damage. And yeah, pretty much the only time you're going to use the daggers is on an assassin life, and maybe some build that utilizes knife specialization. So if you desire to use these weapons for future lives/builds then I'd go with rapiers personally.

The only advantage to shortswords is that they can be used centered, but they are definitely behind rapiers and will be far behind daggers if you have knife specialization. And on any non-kensai centered build, fists will be better than shortswords anyway. Unless you just want a blade wielding monk.

[Oliphant]

I agree that the chain is not useful endgame, but the Nothing is Hidden Shadarkai enhancement makes trapping a lot more fun (for me anyway) and can be had for a total of 17 AP spent in the shardar-kai tree. Although the other enhancements aren't game changing for the most part, you can easily spend the other 15 AP on shadarkai abilities that are useful. For example you can invest 9 of those points in areas you might have spent in the rogue trees anyway, like keen senses, stealthy and dodge; and you are free to spend those points in the rogue trees too if you want to go uber on those abilities. Several more points can be spent boosting sneak attacks. An then there's a stat and the shardarkai sneaky clicky, which is situationally very useful. A human could spend that extra feat on getting the epic Watcher's Eye feat and still have healing amp, but I still don't see it as being all that much better than Shadarkai options. If I wanted to get to level 20 faster, I'd have no problem going shadarkai over the other options.

[Cathimon]

If I was you, I'd chose the race I like the most. In the end, racial enhancements and bonuses don't matter that much in the grand scale of things...

What am I saying!?! Chose Dwarf, it's the master race!

[Arcanegrin]

I agree that the chain is not useful endgame, but the Nothing is Hidden Shadarkai enhancement makes trapping a lot more fun (for me anyway) and can be had for a total of 17 AP spent in the shardar-kai tree. Although the other enhancements aren't game changing for the most part, you can easily spend the other 15 AP on shadarkai abilities that are useful. For example you can invest 9 of those points in areas you might have spent in the rogue trees anyway, like keen senses, stealthy and dodge; and you are free to spend those points in the rogue trees too if you want to go uber on those abilities. Several more points can be spent boosting sneak attacks. An then there's a stat and the shardarkai sneaky clicky, which is situationally very useful. A human could spend that extra feat on getting the epic Watcher's Eye feat and still have healing amp, but I still don't see it as being all that much better than Shadarkai options. If I wanted to get to level 20 faster, I'd have no problem going shadarkai over the other options.

Drow is better for this, they get "Nothing is Hidden" on tier 2 of the tree.

[Wipey]

If I understand correctly, you are not planning to stay rogue for long time.
Therefore I wouldn't bother with Radiance daggers or upgrading Agonies ( unless you have tree that grows Commendations ) if you have perfectly fine Longswords and Celestias.
Can level up with Lit2 noodles in heroics, Celestias easily to cap.
Dual freaking Celestias blind everything, I bet that would make up for worse crit profile.

Maybe if you will like rogue way too much, then upgrade Agony and craft Thunderforged.

[Coyopa]

So, here's my rogue's current gear setup. Like I mentioned before, it's not got any of the really new stuff in it. I planned this out quite a while ago and I chose gear combinations that would give me a wide array of magical effects: guards, offensive procs, and defensive enchantments. I know it probably isn't EE-level gear, but I worked my butt off for this stuff and haven't been able to countenance putting a new gear plan together for this character. The weapons listed are my preferred weapons, but I also use an epic tier 3 Cutthroat's Smallblade (for the boost to Hide and Move Silently, as well as the weapon effects), a Celestia, an Agony, a pair of triple positive green steel maces, a pair of smiting daggers, a pair of banishing daggers, various light repeaters, an epic Noxious Fang, and a Chill Shard (which I once used to kill Micahrastir in the Underdark - that only took about 40 minutes ).

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Goggles: Green Steel Goggles (Blindess/Disease Immunity, +6 Wisdom, Concordant Opposition, +10 Diplomacy, +10 Haggle, +6 exceptional bonus to Charisma skills)

Helm: Circlet (+6 Charisma, Greater Cold Resistance, Yellow Slot [30% Electric Resistance])

Necklace: Jorgundal's Collar (Melee Alacrity 15%, Striding 30%, Green Slot [+30 Hitpoints], Colorless Slot [Globe of True Imperial Blood])

Trinket: Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass (+20 Spot, +20 Search, +3 Use Magic Device [enhancement bonus], True Seeing, Insightful Intelligence +2, Green slot [30% Fire Resistance]) AND Epic Blasting Chime (Weaken Construct, Sonic Lore VI, Resonance +90, Cacophonic Guard, Evocation Focus II, Anthem, Inherent (10) Sonic Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [], Green Augment Slot [30% Fire Resistance])

Cloak: Epic Cloak of Night (Nightmare Guard, Invisibility Guard, Deathblock, DR 5/Good, 2% Dodge)

Belt: Epic Spare Hand (Riposte, Exceptional Combat Mastery +5, Staggering Blow, Disable Device +15, Open Lock +15, Use Magical Device +3, Doublestrike 3%, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Intelligence], Blue Augment Slot [+2 Good Luck])

Ring: Seal of House Avithoul (+7 Dexterity, +5 Sneak Attack, +3 Exceptional Sneak Attack, Improved Deception)

Gloves: Green Steel Gloves (+45 HP, +6 Dexterity Skills (Exceptional Bonus) , +4 Strength Skills (Exceptional Bonus), Polar Ray (2/day), On being-hit chance of freezing target)

Boots: Epic Rock Boots (Superior Corrosion IX, Epic Corrosion VI, Superior Acid Lore, Stone prison Guard, Earthgrab Guard, Slippery Surface Immunity, Inherent (10) Acid Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [Constitution +7], Yellow Augment Slot [Feather Falling])

Ring: Ring of the Stalker (Exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +3, Seeker +6, Manslayer, Ghostly, Colorless Augment Slot [+6 Strength], Yellow Augment Slot [Fear Immunity])

Bracers: Epic Bracers of Wind (Magnetism +90, Superior Lightning Lore, Blurry, Dodge Bonus 6%, Air Guard, Inherent (10) Lightning Resistance, Colorless Augment Slot [], Yellow Augment Slot [30% Acid Resistance])

Armor: Epic Utility Vest (+6, +20 Disable Device, +20 Open Lock, +2 Ex. Intelligence, Blue slot [Heavy Fortification]) AND Epic Frozen Tunic (Armor Bonus +8, Superior Glaciation IX, Epic Glaciation VI, Superior Ice Lore, Freezing Ice, Fire Shield (Cold), Enhanced Ki +1, Colorless Augment Slot [], Blue Augment Slot [Heavy Fortification])

Off-hand: Sacrificial Dagger (+6 Enhancement Bonus, Poison Burst, Constitution Poison (Virulent), Negative Energy Spike, Life Stealing, Lesser Vampirism)

Main hand: Epic Midnight Greetings (+6 Enhancement Bonus, Improved Deception, Finesse, Disintegration, Assassination +2, Improved Paralyzing, Assassin's Training, Clever Strike, Empty Red Augment Slot [Acid])