Let us ETR when we have 6 million sphere xp

[PsychoBlonde]

Basically what the title says. It's not necessary to change it right NOW but please, please, for the love of sanity PLEASE make this change when the level cap goes to 30. The (estimated) 4million xp that you're going to need for those last two levels will be a NIGHTMARE for people grinding eTR's. Don't penalize people who didn't get everything done before the cap raise. Let us eTR based on our sphere xp instead of forcing us to XP cap all the epic levels.

Also you may want to consider buffing the iconic TR abilities to account for the HUGE increase in required XP grinding to get them.

[ArcaneArcher52689]

Basically what the title says. It's not necessary to change it right NOW but please, please, for the love of sanity PLEASE make this change when the level cap goes to 30. The (estimated) 4million xp that you're going to need for those last two levels will be a NIGHTMARE for people grinding eTR's. Don't penalize people who didn't get everything done before the cap raise. Let us eTR based on our sphere xp instead of forcing us to XP cap all the epic levels.

Also you may want to consider buffing the iconic TR abilities to account for the HUGE increase in required XP grinding to get them.

This. OR, let us take one EPL per sphere that we have 6mil karma in per ETR. That way we can at least work on multiple spheres each life and feel like we earned something.

[dunklezhan]

This. OR, let us take one EPL per sphere that we have 6mil karma in per ETR. That way we can at least work on multiple spheres each life and feel like we earned something.

Would be a huge code change, but I think they should just let you TR the ED, rather than the levels - So:

TR would be reserved for resetting you to L1 from L20+. Not available to iconics
iTR would be something you can only ever take from cap and it drops you to iconic minimum level or heroic level 1 if a non-iconic is selected.
Both grant a full heroic passive past lives and allow selection of active past lives.

eTR would be converted to EDTR, which would look like:
You can only take it at cap,
You can only take it for a maxed out ED.
You keep on playing level cap, but re-set an ED to zero with an ED past life on it.
They can put XP increases on subsequence 'sphere lives' similar to heroic lives if need be.

If you need a respec of your epic levels a normal lesser heart of wood should suffice since you don't have 'classes' to swap at Epic. So you would have no need at all to reset your epic levels and run through the horror of L21-25 without an ED to level, without at least having run through the horror of a multi-TR XP-starved heroic level or two like everyone else.

Not sure how well this would work with capped players and low 20s epic characters hitting low 20s content but since I also think they should do away with all overlevel XP penalties in L20+ content and just have it not grant bravery bonuses without interrupting streaks... /meh.

Point is - as things stand I will likely only ever full-TR or i-TR, because eTR looks, frankly, like a spinning grindstone waiting for my face to fall on it. I guess they probably get TP from me either way, /sigh.

[Greantun]

Would be a huge code change, but I think they should just let you TR the ED, rather than the levels - So:
You keep on playing level cap, but re-set an ED to zero with an ED past life on it.

This is exactly what the players *DID NOT* want to happen. This would mean you would lose all of that ED's abilities.

I also wouldn't like staying at level cap, I like replaying quests, and if you stayed there, you can't play all the epic quests.

However, since I am TRing also, I am always going to CAP, ETR followed by either TR or iTR (depending on if I am an iconic), and starting over from level 1.

[SirValentine]

This is exactly what the players *DID NOT* want to happen. This would mean you would lose all of that ED's abilities.

Really? I wouldn't have had a problem with that approach. Losing 1 ED seems reasonable.

I thought the uproar, including mine, was the stupid initial ER suggestion that you lose ALL of your EDs EXCEPT one. So if you had 11 capped, you lose 10 of them. That proposal was WAY too punitive.

[fool101]

Since the xp for levels and destinies is already severed and in fact the only overlap is the new "karma" xp, I don't see why they couldn't allow ER to occur at a different level.

The only thing that would get hairy is if you have max karma in multiple spheres. Would that mean you could chain ER without leveling?

Ultimately I think the current system is close to on-target. But I wouldn't mind a few tweaks to remove some of the artificial barriers (such as requiring level 28 or 30) on top of the karma requirement. I can't immediately think of any loss in income potential from this type of switch either. But people would be able to achieve epic completionist easier, not sure if that's good or bad (coming from a person who likely won't have such a character).

[ArcaneArcher52689]

Would be a huge code change, but I think they should just let you TR the ED, rather than the levels - So:

TR would be reserved for resetting you to L1 from L20+. Not available to iconics
iTR would be something you can only ever take from cap and it drops you to iconic minimum level or heroic level 1 if a non-iconic is selected.
Both grant a full heroic passive past lives and allow selection of active past lives.

eTR would be converted to EDTR, which would look like:
You can only take it at cap,
You can only take it for a maxed out ED.
You keep on playing level cap, but re-set an ED to zero with an ED past life on it.
They can put XP increases on subsequence 'sphere lives' similar to heroic lives if need be.

If you need a respec of your epic levels a normal lesser heart of wood should suffice since you don't have 'classes' to swap at Epic. So you would have no need at all to reset your epic levels and run through the horror of L21-25 without an ED to level, without at least having run through the horror of a multi-TR XP-starved heroic level or two like everyone else.

Not sure how well this would work with capped players and low 20s epic characters hitting low 20s content but since I also think they should do away with all overlevel XP penalties in L20+ content and just have it not grant bravery bonuses without interrupting streaks... /meh.

Point is - as things stand I will likely only ever full-TR or i-TR, because eTR looks, frankly, like a spinning grindstone waiting for my face to fall on it. I guess they probably get TP from me either way, /sigh.

Not signed. The current benefit of ETR's is you earn them as you level. I don't want to be a lvl 28/30 character that has to play lvl 20 quests to farm my main ED up again.


Honestly, I think the OP's suggestion is the best. They sell more hearts, make more money, people grind less, everyone's happy.

[danotmano1998]

Really? I wouldn't have had a problem with that approach. Losing 1 ED seems reasonable.

I thought the uproar, including mine, was the stupid initial ER suggestion that you lose ALL of your EDs EXCEPT one. So if you had 11 capped, you lose 10 of them. That proposal was WAY too punitive.

*ding*

We have a winner

[dunklezhan]

Not going to argue with folks too much but I would have no problem relevelling an ED if I got a passive epic past life feat relevant to that ED out of it. Its how reincarnation works -reset you with a tad more power. I'd do that. I'm not resetting to 20 after I've got all my EDs capped out there'll be no sense of progression to keep me interested. EDs level nice and quick it would be really enjoyable for me. There's no need to make fate points part of the equation - you'd earn them at 1 per 3 ED levels just like now, while relevelling the ED you just 'reincarnated'.

Honestly, I don't know what's not to like. Maybe they could keep eTR as it is but allow EDTRs too, so you have the option of doing both as you need - but keep the EDTRs for cap only characters, meaning thats what you do at cap. In that case, would need a bunch more passive stacking past "life" feats of lesser power to go with teh EDs, and keep full epic past lives for only full epic TR. Or let you EDTR anytime after L20.

I dunno. Something. All I know is the current system encourages me to full TR, not epic TR, because epic levels without regular progression from EDs is a tedious grind for me. I basically play heroic levels mostly, as a result.

Edit: or they could let us earn heroic enhancements while we epic level, so that at least you're getting something as you work your way back up.

[Gljosh]

I agree that, currently it takes 6.6 million to ETR but 6 million in a Sphere but roughly 2 million completes an Epic Destiny. With the impeding 3 to 4 million on top of that. You would fill 4~5 Destinies per ETR. I maxed out 3 full spheres before ETR came in existence. The Epic Past Lifes (and by extension Iconic Past Lifes) are decent for there "current" costs.

[PsychoBlonde]

The only thing that would get hairy is if you have max karma in multiple spheres. Would that mean you could chain ER without leveling?

I don't see this as a problem--the only reason you'd HAVE this setup is that you ALREADY put a lot of effort into leveling your destinies. So you're just getting benefit from effort you already invested. It's not like you got a bunch of free Karma.

But, yes, I have at one character that I could eTR 4 times in a row if they did this. That's not why I'm suggesting it, though, because once the karma's gone, it's gone. I'm suggesting it primarily because I don't see having enough time/energy to get all my eTR's done before the Q4 update and I really don't like feeling like I have a "deadline" because it's going to become a gigantic PITA at that point.

[Nodoze]

...However, since I am TRing also, I am always going to CAP, ETR followed by either TR or iTR (depending on if I am an iconic), and starting over from level 1.

Are you saying on an Iconic that you:
a) Level 1->28 to Cap and then ER and then immediate ITR? or
b) Level 1->28, ER 28->20, re-level 20-28, then ITR 28->1?

I can see on a non-Iconic doing an ER from 28->20 to get an EPL and then immediately TR from 20->1 to get a HPL to get the most out of it.

I ask because I thought on an Iconic if you ER from 28->20 you would need to level back up to 28 before you can ITR...

I really like my BF and would like to get both a EPL and HPL (or IPL) out of leveling 1->28 but instead could only get an IPL & HPL and no EPL by going back to level 1 from CAP. In hindsight it may be more efficient to do non-iconics to maximize acquiring both EPLs & HPLs when going from 1->28 but I really like the BF for my melee...

For reference I was using the following in my planning:

http://ddowiki.com/page/TR

[Gljosh]

Are you saying on an Iconic that you:
a) Level 1->28 to Cap and then ER and then immediate ITR? or
b) Level 1->28, ER 28->20, re-level 20-28, then ITR 28->1?

I can see on a non-Iconic doing an ER from 28->20 to get an EPL and then immediately TR from 20->1 to get a HPL to get the most out of it.

I ask because I thought on an Iconic if you ER from 28->20 you would need to level back up to 28 before you can ITR...

I really like my BF and would like to get both a EPL and HPL (or IPL) out of leveling 1->28 but instead could only get an IPL & HPL and no EPL by going back to level 1 from CAP. In hindsight it may be more efficient to do non-iconics to maximize acquiring both EPLs & HPLs when going from 1->28 but I really like the BF for my melee...

For reference I was using the following in my planning:

http://ddowiki.com/page/TR

I have a SDK Cleric/Rogue and if you ETR you have to hit level 28 to ITR. XP wise you are better off to go the Heroic TR route (3.8 million vs 8.3 million). If you combine the two approaches, level an Iconic in a less desirable ED, ITR and then run a Heroic Life into Epic and take the ETR of that ED it works pretty well.

[PsychoBlonde]

I have a SDK Cleric/Rogue and if you ETR you have to hit level 28 to ITR. XP wise you are better off to go the Heroic TR route (3.8 million vs 8.3 million). If you combine the two approaches, level an Iconic in a less desirable ED, ITR and then run a Heroic Life into Epic and take the ETR of that ED it works pretty well.

Yes. I've found Iconic lives are best when you have destinies that need to be leveled--you can get an entire sphere done on each Iconic life, so 4 and you're done with leveling destinies.

[Gljosh]

Yes. I've found Iconic lives are best when you have destinies that need to be leveled--you can get an entire sphere done on each Iconic life, so 4 and you're done with leveling destinies.

Agreed they are great for this and grinding 100 favor.

[Cardtrick]

Agreed they are great for this and grinding 100 favor.

And farming challenges!

Bladeforged paladain 1, sorcerer 14 to start with. DBF/Haste/Dimension Door/Reconstruct and already in the perfect level range to get max challenge rewards. Take one more paladin level when you earn enough experience, but then park at 16.

A PDK melee bard actually works pretty well too.

[unbongwah]

Changes I'd like to see made to the ER system:

• Karma is uncapped; you can keep accumulating it past 6M. This way you don't lose karma if you stay in your current ED sphere past the 6M mark.
• When you decide to ER, you can claim an EPL for every Sphere with at least 6M karma; so you can claim two EPLs if you have 12M karma, 3 EPLs for 18M, etc. [Presumably Turbine would still make us turn in an epic HoW for each EPL we wanted to claim, because why make people's lives easier by reducing grind?]

These two changes would allow you to earn enough karma while at level cap to take multiple EPLs, which means you could spend all your time farming endgame content to acquire karma, rather than releveling from 20, which restricts which quests you can access. It's still hella grindy, but at least you have a little more control over when & how you grind out your ERs.

[Kasiddy]

How about this:

Remove all level restrictions above 20.
Keep quest levels as a rough guide for difficulty, but once you are 20 you can enter whatever epic thing you want (or that the group leader will let you in).
Yes, a few characters will get powerleveled through weak destinies. So what. One of them might end up being you.
Keep level cap at 28 for the next 1 1/2 to 2 years until high level content is fleshed out and we have the decent makings of an end game again.
Then raise it to 30 if we really still want to go there and there is about 1M more XP on first play-throughs on new quests above 20.
Lose the commendation requirement for epic reincarnation.
Introduce 1M epic XP stones in the store for half the price of an Ottos Box. You can use one Otto's stone and two new epic stones at any time between 20 and 30.
Make the new stones something like the XP you get from saga turn-ins: They hit your inventory and are used immediately. I say this because I'm not at all convinced that new stones will be added that stay in your inventory that do not have unintended "features."
Begin to add another 1M XP in quests/raids after cap raise.
Epic reincarnation costs all your epic XP. Choose a past life feat for any sphere you have any maxed destiny in. Reincarnation does not reset destinies in any way. Once you got a destiny you keep it. Karma is gone. So is the majority of off-destiny grinding.
Rinse and repeat until your eyes bleed and/or your wallet is empty, if that hasn't happened already.
After additional 1M XP of content completed, begin 6 months of updates featuring mostly bug fixes/tweaks.
Assess state/health of the game after at least two major bug passes. Assign Turbine/WB resources accordingly for maintenance for further development. Emphasis on quests/raids, races, classes. Resist temptation to redo or replace major systems (enhancements, destinies, weapons, etc.) because we will still remember The Last Time.

[Candela90]

Doesnt matter for me... at lvl 28 I still have 2500 CoVs so still need to do at least 2/3 of the way 20-28 once again for CoVs... So I guess 28->30 will cover that.

[Enoach]

This an interesting idea to allow an ER when karma is at 6 million

Personally I don't see an issue with removing the Level Cap requirement. I think however, the Karma should remain capped at 6 million as this would be a good limiter to prevent rapid ERs.