petition for monks

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

Give monks their stances back!

In the players handbook (which I have in front of me, and ive been researching), I dont see anywhere in the monk section, where stances are granted at toon level.

They are granted at CLASS level.

Actually there is a lot of abilities not granted to ddo monks. (Open locks, find/remove traps, the ability to self heal, etc.)

Ignoring the above sentence, who at turbine thought it would be great for every player to have a MC toon with a monk2 splash?

How can a lvl 2 monk be a grandmaster?
Given the same stance bonuses as a lvl 17 monk?

Thats just blatant ingnorance on the devs part.

Sign if you think monks should get there stances back at CLASS levels.

Or just dicuss.

[TeacherSyn]

Give monks their stances back!

In the players handbook (which I have in front of me, and ive been researching), I dont see anywhere in the monk section, where stances are granted at toon level.

They are granted at CLASS level.

Actually there is a lot of abilities not granted to ddo monks. (Open locks, find/remove traps, the ability to self heal, etc.)

Ignoring the above sentence, who at turbine thought it would be great for every player to have a MC toon with a monk2 splash?

How can a lvl 2 monk be a grandmaster?
Given the same stance bonuses as a lvl 17 monk?

Thats just blatant ingnorance on the devs part.

Sign if you think monks should get there stances back at CLASS levels.

Or just dicuss.

I'm not signing. I can see what you're arguing but it came over more as a rant than a request.

First, the "Players Handbook?"

Please do not confuse DDO for the parent desktop pen-and-paper game from which it is based.

There are similarities, of course, but we will not and cannot see exacting parity with DnD in a live MMO such as DDO. It's actually impressive that most of the PnP elements have made it, but it cannot be the same. Nor are DDO Monks like their counterparts in the older "Neverwinter Nights" games. They are more akin to the Assassin of Diablo 2, especially in how finishing moves charge and work.

That said, the Monk stances change with Update 19 annoyed me in that Monks no longer used action points to choose a training direction. That is, while most players trained one Grandmaster element to use AP elsewhere, it was possible to train all four Grandmaster stances at a heavy AP cost.

Now, not only are the four stances automatically granted at levels 1, 6, 12 and 18, they aren't class restricted enhancements as you noted. Any class with at least 1 level of Monk and perhaps a stat requirement could train the feats.

But, by moving the stances from the enhancement trees to become feats, it freed up a LOT of diversity in the new enhancement trees. It also made the use of Grandmaster of Flowers for classes such as Kensei fighters (who may have some Monk training or none at all) practical since that destiny improves with Monk stances, but allows them to train more fighter feats for their needs. Becoming an AA if an Elven race also worked easier, and I already mentioned Kensei.

And while the stances can be powerful, the new trees ensure that stances are only a part of a Monk's better training. So I've learned to deal with that change and I'm no longer bothered by it.

I disagree with the self-healing: Shintao Monks are among the best battle-healers with the Healing Ki ability, both a vampiric and mass-heal effect. They also have the among the best healing amplification of any class. All Monks can use ki to fully regenerate all HP every two minutes with the Wholeness of Body feat (autogranted with enough levels). Going Half-Elf or Halfling can add in some diversity there, too.

As far as other DnD abilities that aren't found in DDO: Oh well. I play the game as it's presented, and there are options to open locks I can use as required. I can't expect one class to do everything; that's a balance thing.

Turbine didn't define the "Monk splash." Players did. We can opt not to use it. You can splash Rogue to do the same thing.

[Teh_Troll]

nerf 'em some more.

[Grimlock]

Monks are the ultimate cash cow for DDO, which is why they will do nothing to nerf them. They are also the most overpowered class and in need of re-evaluation. Things need to be removed from Monk - not added.

[Vanhooger]

Monks are the ultimate cash cow for DDO, which is why they will do nothing to nerf them. They are also the most overpowered class and in need of re-evaluation. Things need to be removed from Monk - not added.

Maybe as a splashing class is the most OP, billion time above any other splash. But not pure monk or 16+ monk. They're not OP at all.

[Lonnbeimnech]

In the players handbook, monks can use quivering palm once a week, and abundant step once a day.

How close to the players handbook do you want to get?

[Gljosh]

In the players handbook, monks can use quivering palm once a week, and abundant step once a day.

How close to the players handbook do you want to get?

I want Pale Master's to go back to being Wizard 5/Cleric 5! Now if they made the stance require "more" Monk levels I would be ok with that, similar to the "Deity Based Feats". "

[Memnir]

Monks are pretty well off, all things considered. I'd say other classes could use the buff n polish before Monks are revisited.

[sebastianosmith]

Please do not confuse DDO for the parent desktop pen-and-paper game from which it is based.

Yep. DDO is strictly homebrew; trademarks notwithstanding.

And while the stances can be powerful, the new trees ensure that stances are only a part of a Monk's better training. So I've learned to deal with that change and I'm no longer bothered by it.

I came to peace with this as well. I reasoned that the stance changes were mostly of a physical nature which ignored the spiritual side of things. Having watched hundreds of martial arts films (mostly just awful ones at that), I've come to recognize the "physically adept yet spiritually crippled" characters. They never get to avenge their masters.

Turbine didn't define the "Monk splash." Players did. We can opt not to use it. You can splash Rogue to do the same thing.

We have met the enemy, and he is us. - Walt Kelly

[Seikojin]

As much as I agree to the work as pnp aspect, the truth is ddo is a computer game, and the rules work differently when you have real time actions and such a diverse combo system as ddo has for enhancements and classes.

Memnir has it right; visit the other classes. Clearly monks tweaking helped them. Now other classes need to be revisited and twerked to match the same level of growth as monks have.

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

As much as I agree to the work as pnp aspect, the truth is ddo is a computer game, and the rules work differently when you have real time actions and such a diverse combo system as ddo has for enhancements and classes.

Memnir has it right; visit the other classes. Clearly monks tweaking helped them. Now other classes need to be revisited and twerked to match the same level of growth as monks have.

Well...

12 wiz, 6 ftr, 2 mnk gets grandmaster?

Maybe if not changing the stances back, boost capstones for purists. ALL capstones, not just monks.

[Seikojin]

Well...

12 wiz, 6 ftr, 2 mnk gets grandmaster?

Maybe if not changing the stances back, boost capstones for purists. ALL capstones, not just monks.

That combo would have to sack 3 feats to get it. Sure, as a fighter, most everything you'd want, you would have. And it would be 10/8/2 (centered weapons required greater specialization, a lvl 8 feat).

However, if necros and EK's had the right abilities, you wouldn't need GM stances to get your dodge or prr.

[Robbenklopper]

Give monks their stances back!

In the players handbook (which I have in front of me, and ive been researching), I dont see anywhere in the monk section, where stances are granted at toon level.

They are granted at CLASS level.

Actually there is a lot of abilities not granted to ddo monks. (Open locks, find/remove traps, the ability to self heal, etc.)

Ignoring the above sentence, who at turbine thought it would be great for every player to have a MC toon with a monk2 splash?

How can a lvl 2 monk be a grandmaster?
Given the same stance bonuses as a lvl 17 monk?

Thats just blatant ingnorance on the devs part.

Sign if you think monks should get there stances back at CLASS levels.

Or just dicuss.

Being a Master of Forms, you have to be a Master of your arts. Just a splash of 2 Levels simply doesn´t qualify you for a Mastery. Maybe in an arts of your other 18 Levels.

Now give Monks superior weapon Focus or greater weapon specialization with a 2 Levels fighter splash and a featpoint so i can get my power-surge, it´s comparable with an ultimate stance you gain for 2 splash Monk and a feat Point.
This contributes massively to unbalance in game. These are the rules, we have to live with and it is as it is when rules are flexed to make something work that cant be intended to be. And plz give Monks the ability to splash in barbarian and vice versa, it´s really unfair that (besides some sad exclusions) everybody else can splash us in.

[Uska]

Monks are the ultimate cash cow for DDO, which is why they will do nothing to nerf them. They are also the most overpowered class and in need of re-evaluation. Things need to be removed from Monk - not added.

no they don't need to be nerfed pure monks aren't really a problem its the splash thing and tying stances to class level rather than character level will help that a lot, also if they tie their evasion to being in stance(not by the book but its how I always monks should have been) it will reduce the number of people splashing monk.

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

Deleted....stupid edit function...sometimes works I guess.

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

Splashes currently, be it monk, rogue, whatever, are WAY better than purist, PERIOD.

Look at tthe other thread dicussing capstones.

Really, what do monks get at lvl 19? And lvl 20? What is so great that the game offers a monk at lvl 19?

Going 18/2 and taking 2 lvls of pally offers more than staying pure.

Why not just give the monk stances to all classes, bards get em, barbs, any class should just get them, cause thats what turbine is doing anyway, via MC splashing 2 monk.

Soon every toon on every server will have monk2 or monk 6 in their build.

This game was AWESOME, until the lvl 10 cap was raised.

Just annoyed I guess....

[GMoneyMackDaddy]

Nice edit feature. Broke too