Build Request - Pure Henshin Mystic

[Rush007]

What would a Henshin monk build look like? Going quarter staff you lose out on a lot of great abilities like stunning fist, so would it be worth it to go unarmed instead ? Looking for a pure build only.

[Cardtrick]

What would a Henshin monk build look like? Going quarter staff you lose out on a lot of great abilities like stunning fist, so would it be worth it to go unarmed instead ? Looking for a pure build only.

I see Henshin as a much better tree for multiclass character than a pure class one. You just lose so much quarterstaff DPS by not splashing 2 rogue levels, and you won't get as much benefit by staying pure if you're not going unarmed. I can definitely see the arguments for staying pure if you're going for a wis-based unarmed monk. But the Henshin tree doesn't help much with that.

For a Henshin monk build, here are the major things you lose by not splashing 2 levels of rogue:

* 15% stacking attack speed with quarterstaves from Thief Acrobatics

* Being able to use Quick Strike every 12 seconds instead of every 20 (with 2 rogue, you can have 25% doublestrike 80% of the time; as pure monk, it's 50% of the time).

* 5 uses of Haste Boost for stacking +30% to attack speed (great for boss fights especially)

* Stacking +2 to attack and +3 to damage with quarterstaves from Staff Training I and II

* More skillpoints and UMD as a class skill, allowing max ranks


I know you asked for a pure build, but I can't recommend one with so many benefits for a 2 level splash. Hopefully someone else will contribute one for you to look at.

[Rush007]

I see Henshin as a much better tree for multiclass character than a pure class one. You just lose so much quarterstaff DPS by not splashing 2 rogue levels, and you won't get as much benefit by staying pure if you're not going unarmed. I can definitely see the arguments for staying pure if you're going for a wis-based unarmed monk. But the Henshin tree doesn't help much with that.

For a Henshin monk build, here are the major things you lose by not splashing 2 levels of rogue:

* 15% stacking attack speed with quarterstaves from Thief Acrobatics

* Being able to use Quick Strike every 12 seconds instead of every 20 (with 2 rogue, you can have 25% doublestrike 80% of the time; as pure monk, it's 50% of the time).

* 5 uses of Haste Boost for stacking +30% to attack speed (great for boss fights especially)

* Stacking +2 to attack and +3 to damage with quarterstaves from Staff Training I and II

* More skillpoints and UMD as a class skill, allowing max ranks


I know you asked for a pure build, but I can't recommend one with so many benefits for a 2 level splash. Hopefully someone else will contribute one for you to look at.

Is there a reason to go quarterstaff over handwraps? Looking at the tree the quarterstaff enhancements are expensive and its really for an inferior fighting sytle over wraps. No quivering palm, no stunning fist, will be raising wisdom not strength for levels. Implement bonus can be gotten by socketing spell power in a red slot at the cost of some dps which handwraps would be ahead on.

[unbongwah]

The problem is if you're going unarmed WIS-based pure monk, Shintao is a much better PrE than Henshin, which is a weird mix of staff perks & Spellpower bonuses.

[Grailhawk]

Is there a reason to go quarterstaff over handwraps?

No, But you can build a Staff user who users a staff better then handwraps but that characters will not be a pure monk or any where near a pure monk, 9, or 12 levels max for a Staff build.

[TeacherSyn]

What would a Henshin monk build look like? Going quarter staff you lose out on a lot of great abilities like stunning fist, so would it be worth it to go unarmed instead ? Looking for a pure build only.

While a similar thread with similar answers on the same subject appeared earlier, I'll still give my same answer. Stay pure to learn it and yield the better benefits. Optimal min-maxing may make it a better fighter but a less effective Monk, wasting much of the class training necessary for the class skills to work, in my opinion.

A Mystic's design and class abilities emphasize quarterstaff damage. Observation from others that do not understand this results in a build with poor unarmed skills than Shintao or Ninja Spy, poor defenses and lesser damage. Monks can be more than stun-bots. Mystics cannot gain the high STR necessary for the slower Stunning Blow to work well, nor do they need to. They can yield greater damage using Fighter tactical feats and harass and damage mobs very well with their fire and force damage. My Mystic can use Cleave, Great Cleave and Whirlwind continually and ceaselessly. Should the crits pop, monsters go bye-bye.

STR is the go-to stat but balance with some DEX and certainly WIS and CON are critical.

You could splash Rogue Acrobat or Druid levels for more DPS or doublestrike, but you'd lose out on a great capstone that empowers your ki regeneration and Concentration so that you can spam your ki attacks like crazy. Remember that Monk stances add some of that versatility, such as attack speed and doublestrike, without multiclassing.

Legendary Dreadnought works very well with this in Epic, as does Grandmaster of Flowers.

The Mystic is also the only Monk that can use ALL finishing moves with the right training.

See my Monk guide on more of my thoughts on the Henshin Mystic (link below).

You can also search the guide's companion blog for "Quintessica," my Mystic, to see posts on how this build works in various stages.

[Schmackdown]

Is there a reason to go quarterstaff over handwraps?

I have two handwrap builds, both 20 monk levels, both darkside Henshin. I didn't take any staff enhancements in either, as I didn't need any to get to T5. I didn't feel like I burned any points in stuff I didn't want on the way up, either. I take enough Ninja Spy to max No Mercy, and spend the rest in Shintao. I take little to no racial points.

Darkside Henshin builds get access to Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light, which I find is ironically far better for both self and party healing than a lightside build. It also grants the lightside strike that opens up all of the short-term buff finishers to go with the available darkside debuff/damage finishers.

I don't use the fire tricks that often, but if I am beating on a fire-susceptible boss, I will certainly mix Elemental Words in there and sometimes a 3x Fire finisher- damage ranges from 0-700 or so, depending on evasion, saves and crits, and the any +fire enhancements I swap in on a crafted trinket seem to make a huge difference there, despite what I have read here and elsewhere. Overall I find that the fire aspect of Henshin is too weak to be a central build focus but adds around the edges to a handwrap build that leverages parts of it.

Overall build points aren't too demanding. I wouldn't max out anything, and I'd put level-ups into WIS. Feats are gTWF, improved crit, etc., the usual suspects. I'm a huge fan of Sap, especially on a monk build with the ability to double the duration via a leading Unbalancing Strike, and there should be room in your feat list to add it or something else combat-related that you like to make your build your own.

I ran my dark monks as Shintao until I discovered that SCEWL qualifies as a Light move, thereby opening up the other five Lightside finishers. I use finishing moves routinely, so this was like getting the best of both worlds philosophy-wise. My recommendation would be to go Shintao with your handwrap build if you are Lightside or do not use finishers often, but if you are Dark and/or use those finishing moves, I would try a T5 Henshin for a week or so to see if you like it. It's easy enough to swap back and forth. While there you will likely also experience a palpable change in your Ki retention and passive generation that you'll find you miss if you swap back to NiS or Shintao.

[TeacherSyn]

I have two handwrap builds, both 20 monk levels, both darkside Henshin. I didn't take any staff enhancements in either, as I didn't need any to get to T5. I didn't feel like I burned any points in stuff I didn't want on the way up, either. I take enough Ninja Spy to max No Mercy, and spend the rest in Shintao. I take little to no racial points.

Darkside Henshin builds get access to Shadows Cannot Exist Without Light, which I find is ironically far better for both self and party healing than a lightside build. It also grants the lightside strike that opens up all of the short-term buff finishers to go with the available darkside debuff/damage finishers.

I don't use the fire tricks that often, but if I am beating on a fire-susceptible boss, I will certainly mix Elemental Words in there and sometimes a 3x Fire finisher- damage ranges from 0-700 or so, depending on evasion, saves and crits, and the any +fire enhancements I swap in on a crafted trinket seem to make a huge difference there, despite what I have read here and elsewhere. Overall I find that the fire aspect of Henshin is too weak to be a central build focus but adds around the edges to a handwrap build that leverages parts of it.

Overall build points aren't too demanding. I wouldn't max out anything, and I'd put level-ups into WIS. Feats are gTWF, improved crit, etc., the usual suspects. I'm a huge fan of Sap, especially on a monk build with the ability to double the duration via a leading Unbalancing Strike, and there should be room in your feat list to add it or something else combat-related that you like to make your build your own.

I ran my dark monks as Shintao until I discovered that SCEWL qualifies as a Light move, thereby opening up the other five Lightside finishers. I use finishing moves routinely, so this was like getting the best of both worlds philosophy-wise. My recommendation would be to go Shintao with your handwrap build if you are Lightside or do not use finishers often, but if you are Dark and/or use those finishing moves, I would try a T5 Henshin for a week or so to see if you like it. It's easy enough to swap back and forth. While there you will likely also experience a palpable change in your Ki retention and passive generation that you'll find you miss if you swap back to NiS or Shintao.

Yep, a good build. I shouldn't sound as draconian about Mystics using staves alone. If you blend in some Shintao and Ninja Spy to gain healing amp and handwrap damage to blend in with the Mystics fire and force damage, it can be a great variation on the unarmed fighter. So you can stay quite "pure" here but using the enhancements to vary things up can really make a difference as Schmack here notes. This option is especially nice since you can add in Void Strike, which only the Mystic gets, or skip it but use the Mystic's fire and force damage from Lighting the Candle, which works file unarmed, too.

[TheGuyYouKnow]

a staff build with pure monk will never be anywhere near as good as hand wraps, sorry to burst your bubble
if however you are open to multiclass they can be fairly decent

as a monk you will only get to use stances, strikes and buffs for your staves so 6 monk for shadow fade and tree access is pretty much the extent of usefulness of monk levels

multiclass options i would highly recommend rogue for permanent attack speed boost with staff
and either druid/wizard/more rogue/fighter/paladin/fvs all have their own nice things to bring


-as an extra note i have not played with henshin mystics fire abilities but they do not seem very good, maybe add sorc fire savant and eldritch knight with fire imbue weapon for something different

[TeacherSyn]

a staff build with pure monk will never be anywhere near as good as hand wraps, sorry to burst your bubble
if however you are open to multiclass they can be fairly decent

as a monk you will only get to use stances, strikes and buffs for your staves so 6 monk for shadow fade and tree access is pretty much the extent of usefulness of monk levels

multiclass options i would highly recommend rogue for permanent attack speed boost with staff
and either druid/wizard/more rogue/fighter/paladin/fvs all have their own nice things to bring


-as an extra note i have not played with henshin mystics fire abilities but they do not seem very good, maybe add sorc fire savant and eldritch knight with fire imbue weapon for something different

Not to create a debate, but I strongly disagree on the Mystic's damage. Since you've not played one but I have, note that weapon damage with the competence bonuses easily match or exceed unarmed damage. Add in the elemental damage or other abilities and things get better.

Since the OP is asking advice for a pure build, multiclassing isn't an answer. I watched a Mystic create critical hits I have never seen on any unarmed build I own, including an Earth Stance Shintao with strong STR and all feats to improve its critical range. Simply put, weapon damage is weapon damage, and an unarmed character's damage is a bit different and not amplified by handwraps, which aren't weapons per se.

EDIT: While a Mystic will never generate the same spell power as a caster, they do gain sizable Fire and Force spell power bonuses and crits that work well in gameplay, especially since a Mystic can regenerate ki indefinitely in a fight. While fire isn't useful against some, force damage almost always works.

[Rush007]

Standard 32 point human, no gear new server, might need to get a +3 dex tome for the TWF feats. Level ups planned to go into wisdom. Stats mostly 14's, wisdom 16.

8 Normal Feats
Two weapon fighting x3
Improved Critical
Magical Training
Improved Sunder
Power Attack
Cleave

3 Monk Feats
Dodge
Stunning Fist
Great Cleave

3 Epic Feats
Improved Martial Arts
Vorpal Fists
Blinding Speed (overwhelming critical or damage reduction or epic lightning reflex)

2 Destiny Feats
Toughness (Guardian Angel or tactician)
Toughness (Elusive Target or perfect TWF)

Some thoughts on the feats:

Going TWF as it is compatible with shin and ninja spy if I want to change. Also frees up a lot of action points so I can branch heavily into the other trees by saving 16 points.

Power attack, cleave, great cleave could change to precision, mobility, spring attack. I won't have the strength to get overwhelming critical as I don't have any tomes and not raising strength. Power attack is a lot of damage to leave on the table and the cleaves are nice for AOE and ki gain. So going to go with power attack and cleave line first.

Magicial training, yeah total theory craft there. First feat I'd change but as a henshin fits the flavor and in epic levels you'd get endless cocoons. 5% crit on heals and your fire putting one at 12% after cores are factored in. I'd push this feat as far back as I could as it would have limited value until reaching epic levels.

Improved sunder - helps with stunning fist and finishing moves, lowers fort for criticals. With TWF you get 2 shots most of the time ?

Blinding speed can change once a good haste item is found. EE jorgun's collar would be nice. Also depends on what stance I'm going to run around in. If im in air 90% of the time this isn't needed.

Starting ED I'd go dread so it opens up both primal and grandmaster. Cocoon is priority twist along with +6 tactics from dread. Ending ED would be new divine crusader or grandmaster of flowers.

Enhancements - 41 at least for henshin capstone, 5 for human for boost, wis and healing amp and the rest of the points interchangeable between shin and ninja spy. Fighting undead and outsiders, shin for tomb, crittable stuff ninja spy for sneak and no mercy.