I have to LR+ my ex bard - need advice

[avepepix]

I need to fix my bard, since my last shooter was switched to a tempest/assasin and i want to play with an AA I was trying to do something playable and fun.
My big doubt its about weapon bond with bows, so thinking in theres no problem there I create this test toon

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.19.03
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Chaotic Good Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Barbarian \ 12 Ranger \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 140 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 28)           (Level 28)
Strength             16                 20                   21
Dexterity            16                 21                   22
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         12                 12                   12
Wisdom               10                 10                   10
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 16
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 28)          (Level 28)
Balance               3                  6                   14
Bluff                -1                 -1                    7
Concentration         4                  4                   12
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                    7
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                 -1                    7
Heal                  0                  0                    8
Hide                  3                  6                   14
Intimidate           -1                 -1                    7
Jump                  3                  5                   13
Listen                0                  0                   11
Move Silently         3                  6                   14
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                  n/a
Perform              n/a               n/a                    n/a
Repair                1                  1                    9
Search                1                  1                   15
Spellcraft            1                  1                    9
Spot                  0                  0                   14
Swim                  3                  5                   13
Tumble                n/a               n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a               n/a                    n/a

Level 1 (Ranger)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Bow Strength
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Keen Senses
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Mixed Heritage
Feat: (Automatic) Half-Elven Social Graces (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Immunity to Sleep
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Feat: (Automatic) Wild Empathy


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Feat: (Automatic) Archer's Focus
Feat: (Automatic) Diehard


Level 4 (Ranger)
Spell (1): Camouflage
Spell (1): Jump
Spell (1): Longstrider
Spell (1): Merfolk's Blessing
Spell (1): Ram's Might
Spell (1): Resist Energy
Spell (1): Summon Nature's Ally I
Spell (1): Tumble


Level 5 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Heroic Durability


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Manyshot


Level 7 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Automatic) Dismiss Rage
Feat: (Automatic) Fast Movement
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Rage


Level 8 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Automatic) Damage Reduction


Level 9 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Trap Sense


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dispelling Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Weapon Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Resistance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Parrying Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Parrying Bond (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Parrying Bond (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Uncanny Dodger (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Lessons of Travel (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Lessons of Travel (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Arcane Encumbrance (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Kinetic Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Kinetic Bond (Rank 2)


Level 12 (Barbarian)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge
Feat: (Automatic) Uncanny Dodge (Dodge Bonus)


Level 13 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Wild Empathy


Level 14 (Ranger)
Spell (2): Barkskin
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Camouflage, Mass
Spell (2): Cat's Grace
Spell (2): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (2): Hold Animal
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Protection from Energy
Spell (2): Snare
Spell (2): Spike Growth
Spell (2): Summon Nature's Ally II


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Shot on the Run
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 16 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Human


Level 17 (Ranger)
Feat: (Automatic) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Improved Precise Shot
Spell (3): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (3): Neutralize Poison
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Summon Nature's Ally III
Spell (3): Wild Instincts


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Precision


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: DEX
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Half-Elven Versatile Nature (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Human Adaptability: Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Rogue) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dispelling Shot (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shattermantle Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Guarding Bond (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Guarding Bond (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Guarding Bond (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Lessons of Travel (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Bond of Retribution (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Kinetic Bond (Rank 3)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Ruin


Level 28 (Epic)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Aligned Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Occult Slayer (Bar) - Elemental Defense (Rank 1)

What do you think?

[avepepix]

No one can help me?

[unbongwah]

My only question is: how do you plan to LR a bard into a triple-class with no bard in it? You can't violate the three-class limit during the LR process, which means you have to eliminate all bard lvls before you're allowed to take that third class.

As for the build itself: there's no need to take Prec Shot as it's auto-granted at rgr 4; Power Crit isn't worth it which means you don't need WF:Ranged; same with D/M/SotR chain. Combat Archery is nice, but not if you have to sacrifice STR to get; I prefer to invest more into melee instead. Doubleshot ED feat actually isn't so great on an AA b/c of the Doubleshot penalty from Manyshot.

[avepepix]

My only question is: how do you plan to LR a bard into a triple-class with no bard in it? You can't violate the three-class limit during the LR process, which means you have to eliminate all bard lvls before you're allowed to take that third class.

As for the build itself: there's no need to take Prec Shot as it's auto-granted at rgr 4; Power Crit isn't worth it which means you don't need WF:Ranged; same with D/M/SotR chain. Combat Archery is nice, but not if you have to sacrifice STR to get; I prefer to invest more into melee instead. Doubleshot ED feat actually isn't so great on an AA b/c of the Doubleshot penalty from Manyshot.

Its an LR+ so i can take any class, i cant change the race

[merridyan]

Its an LR+ so i can take any class, i cant change the race

I assume you mean LR+20. You may want to do a bit of forum research on this. At no point in the LR process can character have more than 3 potential classes. This includes the levels you haven't yet taken while LR'ing.

[avepepix]

so, epic count as a class =( and i cant take the 2 fighters lvls

[merridyan]

so, epic count as a class =( and i cant take the 2 fighters lvls

No the bard counts as a class, epic doesn't matter.

During your LR process, at some point you will have:

Levels of ranger.
Levels of Barbarian.
Potential levels of Bard (the levels you haven't taken yet)

You will then try to add a fighter level and fail because it thinks you still have bard levels because of the 3 class limit.

[avepepix]

I assume you mean LR+20. You may want to do a bit of forum research on this. At no point in the LR process can character have more than 3 potential classes. This includes the levels you haven't yet taken while LR'ing.

Yes its a LR+20

[unbongwah]

During your LR process, at some point you will have:

Levels of ranger.
Levels of Barbarian.
Potential levels of Bard (the levels you haven't taken yet)

You will then try to add a fighter level and fail because it thinks you still have bard levels because of the 3 class limit.

This. Let's assume your build is pure bard lvl 20+. Then when you LR, your first several class swaps will be fine, because you're swapping rgr & barb for bard. But then you get to lvl 10 on your build and you can't swap in ftr, b/c you still have 10 more bard lvls left to replace. The LR process isn't smart enough to realize you have enough class changes left to get rid of all of your bard lvls (and intend to do so).

The closest you could come is something like this:

1: bard -> ranger
2: bard -> ranger
3: bard -> ranger
4: bard -> ranger
5: bard -> ranger
6: bard -> ranger
7: bard -> barbarian
8: bard -> barbarian
9: bard -> barbarian
10: bard -> ranger
11: bard -> ranger
12: bard -> ranger
13: bard -> ranger
14: bard -> ranger
15: bard -> ranger
16: bard -> barbarian
17: bard -> barbarian
18: bard -> barbarian
19: bard -> barbarian
20: bard -> fighter

You can swap the final level for fighter, b/c when it's done you won't have any bard lvls left. You can then do another LR +1 a week later to swap in a 2nd ftr lvl, if you wish.

[avepepix]

And how about this?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 28 Neutral Good Half-Elf Male
(2 Fighter \ 6 Ranger \ 12 Bard \ 8 Epic) 
Hit Points: 336
Spell Points: 604 
BAB: 17\17\22\27\27
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 20
Will: 9

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 28)
Strength             17                    27
Dexterity            16                    24
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence          9                     9
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             10                    12

Tomes Used
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 3

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 28)
Balance               3                    15
Bluff                 0                     9
Concentration         2                    10
Diplomacy             0                     9
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                0                     9
Heal                  3                    13
Hide                  3                    15
Intimidate            0                     9
Jump                  7                    28
Listen                3                    22
Move Silently         3                    15
Open Lock             n/a                  n/a
Perform               n/a                  23
Repair               -1                     7
Search                3                    14
Spellcraft           -1                     7
Spot                  3                    33
Swim                  3                    16
Tumble                n/a                  n/a
Use Magic Device      n/a                  32

Level 1 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Point Blank Shot


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Great Cleave


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Precise Shot


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Power Critical


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)


Level 21 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Combat Archery


Level 22 (Epic)


Level 23 (Epic)


Level 24 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Overwhelming Critical


Level 25 (Epic)


Level 26 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Holy Strike


Level 27 (Epic)
Feat: (Selected) Epic: Blinding Speed


Level 28 (Epic)
Feat: (Epic Destiny) Epic Destiny: Doubleshot
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Half-Elven Versatile Nature (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Dilettante (Rogue) (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Elf - Improved Recovery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Focus: Archery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Kensei (Ftr) - Kensei Weapon Specialization: Archery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Energy of the Wild (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dispelling Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Soul Magic (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Moonbow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Skaldic Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Song of Heroism (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Fighting Spirit (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Inspired Bravery (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - The Poetic Edda (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Rough and Ready (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Boast (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Words of Encouragement (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Words of Encouragement (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Words of Encouragement (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Strength (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Warchanter (Brd) - Strength (Rank 1)

Its a bard, fighter and ranger, i think its called barcher

[unbongwah]

Prec Shot is auto-granted at rgr lvl 4; no need to take it. WF:Ranged + Power Crit isn't worth the two-feat cost (+1 to-hit +2 Seeker? yawn); I'd either take more melee feats (GTWF+Imp Crit) or metamagics. I would max out Concentration & Heal rather than Jump & Listen; and unlock Tumble.

See my Bardcher thread for other examples.

[avepepix]

Urbo I see your barchers, they are good, I dont know if they are what im looking for but they are good.

My idea its pure ranged, swithing bow with swords its a pain in there, for me at least.
I would like to test an AA/occult slayer but dont know if its works or not.
Or a fighter AA.

The Half-Elf AA - 20 lvls fighter its so bad?
The racial AA its expensive, but its so bad?
My knowledge about ranger its limited