Punch free Heroic Monk build?

[Ryan220]

Ive been contemplating/ dreading my Monk life and was wondering if there are builds out there that are viable for Heroic leveling that dont use fists?

The reason I dont like playing Monk is because of all the button mashing required - not to mention the confusing number of/ combination of finishers.

Im a 43 year father of two teenage kids, have a demanding wife (not in a good way either) and havent really followed a healthy lifestyle and as such my memory is terrible, my reactions are slow and my tolerance is low.

Im not very good at creating pure builds, let alone multi-classes so any ideas/ thoughts are welcome that take into account the above considerations


Id prefer not to have to use my LR20


Many thanks in advance

[Daitengu]

Dont know if it meets your needs but the Shuricannon uses yeah well Shuriken : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...di-Shuricannon

[skorpeon]

Think there are a few of us that fit that bill. We have a bunch in our guild right now, what server are you on?

I started a pure monk and just went for Dwarf highish wisdom, con and dex. I went unarmed and have had a very easy time of it so far. I am sure like you I don't push all the bottoms at the right time but I don't see it matters too much. I find myself retuning in earth stance (slower) but I don't care as I run faster than others anyway so no real cost. Just play it and I think you will find its not as bad as you might think.

Lawful Neutral Dwarf

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(32 Point) (Level 1) (Level 28)
Strength 13 13
Dexterity 15 17
Constitution 16 17
Intelligence 8 8
Wisdom 17 29
Charisma 6 6

[GeoffWatson]

A monk/rogue Staff build is pretty good.

An unarmed monk can be easy to use. Don't bother with all the moves: Stunning fist, fists of light, healing ki (the triple light finisher) is all you need. Or Stunning fist and touch of death if you go dark side.

Geoff.

[Linvak]

I've been looking at the possibilities as of late. If youre just looking to go 20 and tr, there are some pretty simple ideas imo. Refering to epic viability its a little more limited. The qstaff route looks really fun, there are some cool enhancements out there for it. Buuuut, because 8 levels of fighter can basically center u while using anything really you're open to alot. If you're looking for simplicity, I'd pick a route you're best suited for as far as weapons and/or greensteel.

12 monk / 7 rogue / 1 fighter is the one I'm looking into most.

[TeacherSyn]

I recommend a Henshin Mystic. Simply play it pure. The staff damage is very impressive but requires to concentrate on STR for better damage. You still need a bit of DEX for reflex and AC, CON for some HP durability.

As the Mystic uses ki as would spell points are for a spellcaster, you need to train any passive ki regeneration skills you can so you'll have ki for your spell-like fire and force attacks. Spell power bonuses from equipment and other bonuses count, and the Mystic gets a modest amount as they train. Don't fall into the multiclass trap here; the Mystic gains nothing from any metamagics, and it may also make you less durable. Ki is ki, not magic.

You shouldn't play Mystics like stunning Monks. They are dervishes that can do mass damage unlike other Monks and aren't bad light tankers. Stunning Blow (as Stunning Fist can't work while armed) may take too many resources to work and is far too slow to be useful in general. You can take either philosophy but I recommend Light for self-healing. You'll get one special ability to add the opposite philosophy later so you can eventually make every finishing move in the game.

Train them with Two-Handed Weapon feats, Cleave, and other tactical feats to make that staff work it's damage well.

More on my take on the Mystic in this chapter of the Monk guide.

[unbongwah]

The reason I dont like playing Monk is because of all the button mashing required - not to mention the confusing number of/ combination of finishers.

You can play a pure unarmed monk and avoid the most complicated button-mashing, like finishers etc. if you wish. But I don't see how any melee in DDO can avoid a certain amount of button-mashing without gimping itself; there are simply too many useful special atks, action boosts, etc. to just run around holding down the atk button. What melee builds have you played before (and liked)?

[HungarianRhapsody]

Dont know if it meets your needs but the Shuricannon uses yeah well Shuriken : https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...di-Shuricannon

This might be a stupid question (and kind of an insulting one as well, although I certainly don't mean for it to be), but is the Shuricannon build any good?

I had just ignored it because it uses a throwing weapon and throwing weapons are pretty terrible because of their low rate of fire. Is Shuricannon viable compared to a melee or a Monkcher?

I'm asking because there are lots of things that my DDO "common sense" tell me are terrible, but after the enhancement changes, a lot of them are quite good now (like the idea of splashing 2 evasion and 2 paladin on an offensive caster. That was a HORRIBLE idea in the past, but it's quite nice now).

[TeacherSyn]

This might be a stupid question (and kind of an insulting one as well, although I certainly don't mean for it to be), but is the Shuricannon build any good?

I had just ignored it because it uses a throwing weapon and throwing weapons are pretty terrible because of their low rate of fire. Is Shuricannon viable compared to a melee or a Monkcher?

I'm asking because there are lots of things that my DDO "common sense" tell me are terrible, but after the enhancement changes, a lot of them are quite good now (like the idea of splashing 2 evasion and 2 paladin on an offensive caster. That was a HORRIBLE idea in the past, but it's quite nice now).

The Shuricannon is EXTREMELY good. They can make many Monkchers look like crud in my opinion.

Take a look at one of my posts about my build on my Monk blog. The only current inconvenience is an Update 21 bug that caused the Sting of the Ninja ability to stop working on shuriken, which adds accumulating and deadly Ninja Poison damage. Even without that, the Shuricannon's high DEX (multiple stars thrown) and vorpaling stars makes for a very, very deadly fighter. And all that from the lowest base damage weapon in-game.

And that's on Heroic. Wait till it goes all Shiradi on you.

[rimble]

This might be a stupid question (and kind of an insulting one as well, although I certainly don't mean for it to be), but is the Shuricannon build any good?

I had just ignored it because it uses a throwing weapon and throwing weapons are pretty terrible because of their low rate of fire. Is Shuricannon viable compared to a melee or a Monkcher?

I personally find it really slow to start. Its core functionality REALLY comes from a pumped Dex, and it takes higher levels to get that from better gear and tomes. Good news is, you can whack things with Short Swords pretty effectively until you get going. Since the build includes Quick Draw, whack 'em with Shuriken, maybe take one or two out, and when they get close you can quickly switch to Short Swords. Or you can crazy kite if you want, I just found that slow.

[Cardtrick]

I recommend a Henshin Mystic. Simply play it pure. The staff damage is very impressive but requires to concentrate on STR for better damage. You still need a bit of DEX for reflex and AC, CON for some HP durability.

I agree that a staff monk is the way to go, but I'm not sure whether it's really better to keep this pure or to splash 2 levels of rogue. It seems like the quarterstaff damage definitely takes a big hit by not getting the stacking +15% attack speed and the 80% uptime doublestrike from thief acrobat Quickstrike (Henshin's version, for whatever reason, is only 50% uptime).

It seems like for the Henshin version to beat that would require heavy use of finishers, which it sounds like the OP doesn't want. Am I wrong on that? (I might very well be, I'm very very far from a monk expert and I'm a big fan of your guide.)

[Munkenmo]

How deeply would you consider splashing?

If you're only after a monk pastlife you only need 9-10monk levels depending on your other classes.

As others have mentioned, monk acrobats are fairly strong, (even if the staves are not, seriously, you'll be repairing them after every single quest)

For a heroic build though, there is not a lot of point in playing it pure. 12monk is going to be your sweet spot, if you mix in 4rogue and 2fighter levels you'll get +3 stunning blow DC's, traps, umd, uncanny dodge etc.

The acrobat 1/4 staff enhancement is particularly great, but not quite better than Shadowfade. So frontloading monk levels is still a good idea:

I'd build something like this:

Human (strength based [I know people will argue against it, but you have improved evasion, and earth stance, and stunning blow, and boosts to helpless enemies] imo str based wins out)
1 rogue (feat dragon mark of passage)
2-7 monk (feats: (M)power attack, (M)Dodge, (M)Deflect Arrows cleave, great cleave )(enhancments, Be sure to pick up the ability Shadowfade from ninja spy, damage boost from human, then spend the rest on 1/4 staves)
8 rogue (respec enhancments, swap out henshin 1/4 staff attack speed for the cheap rogue version)
9-14 Monk (feats: Stunning Blow, I crit bludgeoning)
15-16 Fighter (feats: thf, Ithf, Gthf)(swap enhancments again and pick up the cheaper fighter hasteboost, and some extra action boosts, [and +3 tactics if you need them])
17-18 Rogue (level up acrobat enhancments some more, Feat: [Maybe 10k stars if you want a ranged option])
19-20 (doesn't matter, unlikely to take these levels.)

[Cardtrick]

As others have mentioned, monk acrobats are fairly strong, (even if the staves are not, seriously, you'll be repairing them after every single quest)

Theurgic Stave! Improved crit profile, improved damage profile, two red slots, elemental bane, and -- adamantine. The adamantine bit increases both durability and hardness, and it lasts pretty well. I have 3 of them with different augment slot combinations. Those and a triple positive green steel are pretty much all I need until epics. I actually still use a Theurgic Stave (with appropriate augments) alongside the Stout Oak Walking Stick after hitting epic levels but before being able to use Sireth. Stout Oak is better DPS, but the augments can be really useful; and when using both of them, the Theurgic Stave seems to last longer without repairs.

The acrobat 1/4 staff enhancement is particularly great, but not quite better than Shadowfade. So frontloading monk levels is still a good idea:

Agreed in general that Shadowfade is awesome. But the always-on 15% attack speed boost you can get with 2 rogue levels is a really big deal, too. (More so than the difference between monk and rogue Quick Strike cooldowns.) I like your suggested class split and most of the build order, but I'd probably suggest going 1 rogue, 2-3 monk, 4 rogue, and then continuing the rest of the way as you described.

[TeacherSyn]

I agree that a staff monk is the way to go, but I'm not sure whether it's really better to keep this pure or to splash 2 levels of rogue. It seems like the quarterstaff damage definitely takes a big hit by not getting the stacking +15% attack speed and the 80% uptime doublestrike from thief acrobat Quickstrike (Henshin's version, for whatever reason, is only 50% uptime).

It seems like for the Henshin version to beat that would require heavy use of finishers, which it sounds like the OP doesn't want. Am I wrong on that? (I might very well be, I'm very very far from a monk expert and I'm a big fan of your guide.)

A Monk and Rogue both gain Evasion and Improved Evasion, if that's what you're after, so there's little benefit to splashing Rogue except for some sneak attack. The Mystic's doublestrike bonus has a short cooldown but also stacks with Wind Stance's doublestrike bonus. Combined with the damage and criticals, few things live long.

I'm not one to ask about the min-maxing to get uber this and uber that, so I'm only recommending what works well, not necessarily for the Ultimate Fighter thing. Others can fill you in there. My advice is premised on what you know already: a Monk is a difficult melee class to use already, so splashing just adds to the complication.

If you cannot "button mash" a Monk, it may suggest that you could use a primer on what finishing moves do and why the button mashing is so key in that class's success. Anybody can push a button to attack but to put the right finesse to it results in a better result than trying to get raw passive damage through min maxing, in my opinion. Two dark finishers can mute a mage and/or paralyze from attack, at level 3. Rather than splashing classes, a solid attack makes for an easy kill.

[Cardtrick]

A Monk and Rogue both gain Evasion and Improved Evasion, if that's what you're after, so there's little benefit to splashing Rogue except for some sneak attack. The Mystic's doublestrike bonus has a short cooldown but also stacks with Wind Stance's doublestrike bonus. Combined with the damage and criticals, few things live long.

Thank you for the reply, but no -- I wasn't talking about evasion at all.

I was specifically asking about the two things I mentioned in my post. Taking 2 levels of rogue opens up the first 2 tiers of Thief Acrobat. Quick Strike's 25% doublestrike chance always lasts for 10 seconds. But the Quick Strike ability in the rogue tree has a cooldown of 12 seconds, whereas Henshin has 20 seconds -- so you can have doublestrike 80% of the time with a rogue splash, but only 50% of the time as a pure monk.

Even more importantly, taking 3 ranks of the tier 1 thief acrobat ability Thief Acrobatics gives a 15% attack speed boost to quarterstaves. Unlike monk's melee alacrity in Wind Stance, this attack speed increase stacks with all other forms, including Haste. It's a major DPS increase, which I'm pretty sure outclasses anything you can obtain from the final 2 levels of monk.

Additionally, the bonuses to staff damage and attack rating from Thief Acrobat's Staff Training do stack with those from Henshin.

Finally, 2 levels of rogue opens up Haste Boost, which is just awesome -- especially when combined with human's Damage Boost. But that may be getting too clicky for the OP (although still far, far less than a monk's ki strikes and finishers).

I'm just not sure whether all of this is a greater benefit than what you get from the final 2 levels of monk. It has been a very long time since I've played a pure monk, and it's a complicated class.

[Munkenmo]

I'm just not sure whether all of this is a greater benefit than what you get from the final 2 levels of monk. It has been a very long time since I've played a pure monk, and it's a complicated class.

For an epic unarmed quivering palm monk, there could be an argument made for staying pure,
but even they could also splash 2fighter, gain 2 feats and have the same Quivering Palm DC
Gains:
2 feats
hasteboost
+2 stunning fist DC (taking into account capstones have +2wisdom)
Losses:
.5[w]
perfect featherfall
10dr/epic
capstone access (this is the big one)

Imo an 18/2 unarmed monk/fighter is stronger than a pure.

then going slightly further, down to 16/2/2 (losses, grand master stance and 5% movement speed, 2QP DC's)
splashing 2pally levels = but cha to saves, divine might for a twist.
splashing 2fvs/cleric = Divine might & empower heal for epic rejuv cocoon goodness
splashing 2druid = wolf form, rams might, empower heal
splashing 1-2rogue = umd & traps
for the bladeforged 1-2 wiz = 10prr, mental toughness & an extra cleave

IMO a 16/2/2 is also a stronger unarmed build than a pure monk.


For a Quarterstaff / weapon using monk there's not a lot of point progressing past 12monk at all, whether for heroic or epic.

other classes can get significant passive benefits over staying pure.
eg rogue = stacking staff attack speed boosts, passive staff damage
ranger = 100% chance for offhand attacks, 2second deflect arrows, manyshot.
fighter = feats + hasteboost
divines = empower heal for some tasy rejuv cocoons in epics
paladin = cha saves and divine might.

It's obviously subjective and opinion driven, but imo there is a lot more to be gained on any primary monk build by investing 2, 4, or 8 levels in classes other than monk.

[Cardtrick]

t's obviously subjective and opinion driven, but imo there is a lot more to be gained on any primary monk build by investing 2, 4, or 8 levels in classes other than monk.

Makes sense to me, thanks. I've decided to go with mainly staff lives for my completionist project, and monk is 2 lives away, so I've started thinking about it. I was already leaning pretty strongly toward a strength-based human 12 monk, 6 paladin (divine grace, divine might, healing amp), 2 rogue (quick strike, thief acrobatics, haste boost, UMD) build.

[Pala-forged]

Long time monk player here, love them.

You press as many buttons as you want. I don't use finishers often - my hotkeys are as follows: Imp sunder (for EE), stunning fist, cleave, G. cleave, healing, better healing, healing stick.

From that, only stun and healing are needed. There's also a million other options; plenty of abilities, ki moves, etc.. I'm typically too lazy. (And quite often only have 2-6 monk levels)

If you get enough UMD, then all you'd need is 3 buttons. Stun as 1, heal scroll as 2, healing stick as 3. Stun when possible, hold down attack, when you need to heal press 2, 3, 2. (Okay, little bit like a finisher, but it becomes memorized easy, seeming it never changes)
Or press 2 twice, but a healing stick adds a lot of heal amp.

Of course, staff monks, shuriken monks and uncentered monks are always options, but that's a no effort way to use your fists. (If you have enough monk levels, you can use other abilities/moves you like - touch of death, shivering palm, etc and still not have a complicated hotbar.)

As for stats, wis based with 17 dex (with a +3 scroll - don't start with less than 14, it's annoying), 14-16 con, rest in str. Level ups in wisdom, stunning items. Feats, meh. Get Power Attack, stunning fist, TWF, iTWF, gTWF and then whatever else you want.

[Saekee]

I have been running with one that I plan to TR, not take far into epics.
Drow twf (shortswords) with some shuriken stuff (quickdraw, pbs, rapid shot, shuriken expertise, etc.)
Dex and Wis based, so not great with fists, so no stunning fist etc and I avoid using wraps. The idea for me is to create an 'Infiltrator,' someone with high Dex for stealth and evasion, and useable for both shurikens and shortswords (level 20 gets vorpal on them, but that will be for my brief epic period).

For my setup, I recommend going Fist of Darkness, then at level 12 take the Henshin tier 5. You heal for 100 hp when you drop mobs with a 6second cooldown hit. With high Dex and Wis you can have a good AC, evasion and saves. You will not be the super damage dealer but it makes questing really fun. Also the henshin path enables all the possible finishing moves, which can be great for a party if you are on top of it. I was playing with it out of curiousity and now cannot imagine doing otherwise; the heals are just too good.

If I had good quarterstaves i would recommend pure Henshin.

I am doing this for fun, not to be optimal, and it is working fairly well. i also have most of the top heroic shortswords (like Razorend and a couple of Zephyrs).

[Robbenklopper]

The reason I dont like playing Monk is because of all the button mashing required - not to mention the confusing number of/ combination of finishers.

Hej,

playing a Monk IS actionloaded, that´s why i like him. There are a few moves you need to do to take full advantage of all it´s potential instead of a two-button-nuker. But it´s not THAT much smashing when you have the right gear
Try this and make your gaming a bit easier: http://gaming.logitech.com/de-de/pro...l-gaming-mouse. It works for my fighter as well.

There are many mouses and i even had a 20 button mouse, but the order of buttons from the link above is the best and most essential for me.

Left Hand on Keyboard for moving and some punches. (WASD / Q+E / 1234)
Right Hand on mouse for the Specials. One of the middle buttons is the finishing-relaser. I bet you´d get any combination after a Brief training with that mouse.

Enjoy a MMO mouse on any class!